Nürnberg - Ingolstadt (and Feucht) Discussion Threa

Lot of wild assertions about ICE 1s, so lets take a deep dive!

Here is the list of all ICEs stopping at Ingolstadt for Fahrplan year 2017 (December 2016 -> December 2017). Note that this includes some seasonal and weekend only services:
https://www.fernbahn.de/datenbank/s...[]=zuglinie&fv_suche_detail=1#fv_suche_detail

There are 98 listed services.

If you further filter by train type, you get:
- 18 ICE 1 services (almost entirely München <-> Hamburg)
- 29 ICE 2 services (Mostly München <-> Hamburg/Bremen/Lübeck/Oldenburg and other northerly stuff)
- 28 ICE 3 services (almost entirely München <-> Dortmund)
- 2 ICE 4 services (München <-> Hamburg)
- 25 ICE T services (all kinds of cool places)

(the numbers don't add up to 98, as a couple services were serviced by multiple types of trains)

 

The older ICE Are almost replaced with the ICE 4 now

 

It apparently was in the same files as the UK one, yes.

 

From the Q&A summary, the 401 is not listed as drivable, which seems crazy to me. Certainly a shame.

 

Plus a few skip Ingolstadt.

 

Personally, this DLC is a bit of a let-down for me, as I’m not interested in driving an ICE at full throttle and pressing the Sifa button every now and then.

I’d been hoping for more, which is why I watched DTG’s livestream yesterday.

 

Glad to hear it!

 

The Munex cab car and the 403 have suspension, only the standard 101 doesn't.

 

Was going to point this out but you beat me to it.

 

401 run over the line and this image also proves it litterly the ice 1 runs over this line bc there part of the long journey from hamburg to munchen via hannover kassel wurzburg nurmberg ingolstadt

 

Why is this new route being approved for release when DTG has declared that TSW6 rolling stock must support the suspension function? What's the rationale for this exception? Why aren't we adhering to DTG standards? We're continuing to create further chaos!

Not only is the developer failing to deliver on its promises to implement new features for old content when used in new projects, but we're also continuing to release new content that doesn't meet new standards. This is outrageous.

 

One thing that was skipped in the preview stream this time but is usually done in others was showing all the timetable for each of the main stock services, and showing the journey mode chapters.

 

This was explained in the stream. DTG gave the normal 101 to TSG for free to use in this DLC. If they upgrade it, they would be devaluing the original 101 DLC as the best version would now be in this new DLC.

It makes sense from a business perspective, but from the users POV it just doesn't because as you said, TSW6 DLC should have suspension. Period.

Also brings the question why the 403 could be upgraded, as it also devalues previous 403s.

 

So that one of the trains is missing suspension is 'outrageous' and 'creating chaos'? Don't you think that's a bit much?

 

It doesn't seem so, and it's not too much! Next up, Tadami! And so on...!

 

The 403 got most of its upgrades because William and myself did way too much scopecreep and unpaid voluntary work to push it as far as in the expert territory as possible on this DLC without extreme model/art changes and within the time we had. We are just way too train-nerdy and always do more than the expected featureset because we do it as our passion. The 403 had an original scope of "fix typos/bugs in screens, implement tsw6 core features, add new traction sounds". Now it got the full expert display service (so people with knowledge can just add new faults/widgets to it) and some expert faults instead of the default dtg faults, basically all sounds got a rework from new recordings i made, the simugraph/RVM got a thiccccc upgrade by william and has a lot of features prepared to use but weren't added because of time (like working traction modifications (lockable motors, circuitbreakers) and many more. Even the safety loops like SBS,FÜS,... got implemented as prototypical as possible.
Its a bit sad this now gets used as a "they did it there, why not with this one" and tbh i'm steadily losing my will to do this voluntary work on DTG products if the community just throws <insert bad thing> at us for it.

 

It looks like you did a great job with that, it looked and sounded fantastic! Please don't let yourself be discouraged by a minority in this 'community' that apparently insists on focussing on the negatives (if you can even call it that).

 

Most people are impressed with ICE3 though? Even I, who isn’t a huge fan of ICE’s IRL, is interested in it as it looks & sounds like it’ll be a great experience.

The problem really is more about the quantity of DLCs that keep offering the same rolling stock, which is compounded when said rolling stock doesn’t even match the level of existing stock.

The Munex sets were always going be a big factor in this pack for people, so I’m not surprised that people are disappointed by it. It would be like an Austrian route coming with a Nightjet that’s using the RT BR182 as its loco. I’m not going to get into the 442 as I think it would be obvious as to why people would be disappointed with that.

 

Why have that got use the 442 from koln aachen why couldn't they use the one from dresden.

 

Pft, don't listen to the choosybeggars and simply keep doing what you're passionate about. It is benefiting the community in the long term whether some people say it isn't or not. And if not for the people that still support your choices, at least keep doing it for yourselves, yknow, lol. It's great to be proud of what you've done.

If anything the observation in this regard I'd done in the QandA thread (of also updating previous 403s), I recognize would benefit even people who've given you nothing (e.g. MAG only owners) and that isn't right per se. But as users keeping track of what has what and works where, is quite ass. Now for example if a new non-TSG route comes out that utilizes the BR403 will it also be defaulted back to one worse than yours, as they cannot simply take yours?

 

you’ve done a fantastic job, it’s a shame that people are giving you a hard time for doing more than they could ever do

 

Because S-Bahn Nürnberg has 4 wagen

 

It may drive better, but looks worse. Not the right consists and the white stripe. Honestly, the Köln one looks way better

 

Have they at least improved the koln aachen version cause it was horrible to drive at night.

 

No, there were no changes made to it

 

Thats a shame I kinda on the fence with this route on one hand the improved 403 looks amazing and on the other so much reused stock .

 

I mean this with all due respect, and appreciation for your hard work, but how are we even supposed to weigh this information when deciding whether to buy or not? Will there be a note on each release now showing how much free labor every dev put into it? I'm being a bit hyperbolic but still....

I personally find it borderline exploitative that any devs are working even a minute without pay. I didn't like it with the GWE remaster and I don't like it here either. Maybe that's just how the industry works but it isn't right and kinda just makes me not want to play at all anymore.

 

From what I read, it is clearly unpaid voluntary work, it's not being *asked* of them by anyone (with power to make them do it) other than their own free will. It's not that they're not being paid period.

At the same time, the fact that it is released as an exclusive part of a TSG pack, and that because of this as DTG said they cannot simply appropriate it to update older 403s for example, it does kinda intrinsically tie the work done to some of the value of the pack that must be gotten to access this, and is paid. Otherwise they'd need to confirm if they'd be willing to let their voluntary upgrades propagate to DTG stock only behind proper crediting.

100% understandable if they wouldn't, it's their work afterall and they decide, but then it's not as much free work as it is "work we decided to do because we felt it would improve the content, that wasn't asked of us, but as a result does make the offer of the content now more compelling (and to the end user is indeed still behind the paywall)".

 

Its not exploitative if its voluntary lol. I made the decision myself and nobody told me to do so.

 

You are not the only developer who voiced similar thoughts and I believe your feelings.

But then my question is why we as customers are paying rather high prices for content, when the developers who did the work don't actually get paid?

 

I think you kinda misunderstand the text i wrote. I get paid for the features they asked me to do, i was just ranting a bit because it just feels like the community is in an "moving the goalpost" mode as of now, which is demotivating as hell from my standpoint and makes me rethink about how much voluntary bonus work i wanna do just because I want authentic trains. If the scope would have included all those extra features the route would be more expensive because more hours would have to be paid. Its a privilege to do this without "needing the money".

 

Just so know i would have happily paid an extra £10 if ment getting a new 442 .

 

Then again, the 442 is not the main act of this DLC. An important side dish, especially scenery wise, but not more important than that.

The route itself, the improved 403 and the Münex (which I will probably use with the expert 101) are more than enough for me to justify parting with €36.

 

Yeah that doesn't make sense, the original 101 is like 5 years old? Not sure why that loco is not allowed to be upgraded when countless other stock has received the same treatment.

The changes to the ICE 3 in this route are a very welcome addition so not sure why DTG are being stingy with the 101 and not letting the devs work on it.

Route looks pretty good overall from what I've seen however.

 

I don't think anyone threw anything at you specifically, and tbh all the comments I have read about the 403 are positive ones.
So thanks for your work.

Now, I think you should understand that if we ask why the normal 101 was not upgraded there were probably several answers that could be given. The one the Lukas provided was that it would devalue the original 101 DLC. When I heard that the first thing that I thought is that it does not make sense at all, because the 403 is also being upgraded and by the same rule it would devalue the original 403, and so on ... content is being upgraded all over the place in different DLCs. Just doesn't make any sense.

Instead, Lukas could have said something like "look, with a target of selling this DLC at 36€ a developer can usually only include 1 new train. The changes needed for the Munex with the cab car pretty much cover that, but then we did extensive work to the 403 well beyond what a normal upgrade to TSW6 standards would be. We think many people will own the Expert 101 DLC that will substitute the normal 101, so of all the available options, we decided that we would leave the normal 101 as is so we could focus on all the other stuff I just mentioned".

If he had said that, I would clearly understand what happened and even mostly could agree with it. But it is not what he said.

Now, going to the bigger picture ... None of this is anywhere in the product description in the Steam page, so nothing a "normal" buyer will see. DTG is constantly increasing the number of features to be expected in the DLCs with each iteration of TSW, so yeah, a "normal" user would expect to see suspension in a 101 included in a TSW6 DLC and, to be clear, this has nothing to do with TSG. It is just what DTG advertises in general for all their TSW6 products.

 

We are not moving the goalpost, at least not with the TSW6 standard features. DTG put it there, not any of us.