No Licenses No Problem

Out of curiosity is there anything stopping DTG from doing what British railways/ forth rail do where they change the logo but keep the livery same?

like for example if we had no intercity license they could put DTG where the intercity logo would be etc

not sure how possible this is but could let us get few more liveries for lines missing correct liveries, also not sure if it’s a money thing since British railways is a free game and tsw isn’t

 

Why on earth would anyone call their game British railways. That's weird and confusing.

Edit: And devoid of creativity.

 

Is it? Railways in Britain are British railways, sound quite logical.

 

Because it’s just uk railways and trains would versions of irl stations but slightly different

 

Yes

 

Different how? Wizards?

 

Would be better for you just to watch a video or play the game then me trying to explain it

 

I think there's 2 points to consider:

1: you have to be legally distinct, if you released a Virgin livery train and simply changed the name to Burgin you leave yourself open to a legal challenge over livery/artwork.

2: Matt has said whenever a none branded train has been released (like the unfortunate case of WCMLs) DTG have received lots of negative feedback from players who have the expectation of officially branded trains.

Creators Club and PC Livery Mods exist, but should never be a replacement for licensed paid for DLC.

 

DTG already said they don't want to do trains without licenses, at least not the primary ones. For me personally licenses are not that important, I'm fine with the way they did the Czech route for example. The licensing issue for German routes is really holding back the game, so in my opinion it's time for a change when they really not can acquire a license.

 

Oh no it's Roblox.

 

What’s wrong with that?

 

I seem to recall that former BR trademarks/liveries are with the DfT. So I don't envisage any developers having issues getting permission for what were publicly owned companies and now defunct branding. We've had plenty of BR-era content so it's a fair assumption.

And DTG have worked with the DfT very recently, so it's also safe to assume there's a good relationship there. So no need to see "Gin-to-city", "Networth South East", "Red Tar Parcels" or "Reginald Railways" any time soon.

 

I’d rather unbranded rather than a “fake” logo, or a variation like we had with the Island Line.

 

The problem is that even shapes and shades can be part of the branding, not only the logo, so that you are faced with two alternatives, either you resort to something purely fictional but in the same vein, or... something uniformly gray...

 

I don’t know how any of these Roblox people haven’t had legal issues.

 

Maybe because it isn't really an issue as long as they don't use logo's. In TSW you have the Czech trains in right colors without logo, GWE has London Underground colored trains without logo and the Class 350 without logo but also with the right colors. The only issue was the striping on the 1st Great Western trains, this striping is left out on the trains.

I also saw a game in Roblox with DB trains with logo, but perhaps those are licensed.

 

There’s a lot more to it than just not having the logo - companies could still win a legal battle if it’s obvious what the game is mimicking.

Also, I seem to remember one of these Roblox people stealing AP sounds. If they think that’s fine, they probably think not having a license is fine. That’s why they could end up in trouble.

 

Do you have evidence of that? From the ones I’ve seen so far they paid or just use their own version of sounds

 

Maybe the representation of the trains in Roblox is far enough from realistic to not cause licensing trouble. As in: it's clearly a toy train.

 

I don’t have any ‘evidence’ per se but I definitely remember it happening. They might have paid for them now, I don’t know.

 

Well, they will have a case when the color scheme / design is protected. Logos and names are most likely protected, but colors are a different case. I named already a few examples of TSW where the colors are not an issue, so that's proof against your "there is a lot more to it". If you have proof otherwise, happily share it with us.

 

Removing a company’s logo only protects you from trademark infringement (preventing confusion over who made the game). However, it leaves you completely exposed to copyright infringement.

Logos are just one small piece of a company's intellectual property. If you use their "stuff," you are likely copying assets protected under copyright law:

• Characters & Designs: The visual appearance, 3D models, textures, animations, and iconic design elements of characters, creatures, or items.
• Audio: Background music, sound effects, and voice acting.
• Source Code & Assets: Using ripped 3D models, code snippets, or original game files.
• Story & Lore: Specific storylines, unique world-building, script writing, and dialogue.
  
  Key Things to Keep in Mind

1. "Substantial Similarity" is the legal standard: A court doesn't look for an exact 1:1 match including logos. If an average person can look at your game asset and clearly recognize that it was copied or directly adapted from another company's work, it is considered copyright infringement.
   
   
2. Fan games are not automatically safe: Making the game non-commercial or free does not stop a company from suing or sending a Cease & Desist (C&D). Big gaming studios shut down free fan projects all the time (e.g., Nintendo shutting down Pokémon Uranium or AM2R).
3. Ideas vs. Expression: You can copy the basic idea or game mechanic (e.g., a platformer where you jump on enemies, or a battle royale). What you cannot copy is the artistic expression of that idea (the exact visual look, sound, and character designs of the game you're taking inspiration from).
   

 

The legality of it doesn’t matter, DTG has always held the position of keeping all potential licensors happy, even if something is technically allowed, so they won’t do these grey area dev practices.

This was the same discussion they had around WCMLS & why their 350 looks the way it does.

Also Armstrong Powerhouse found themselves in legal hot water at one point too, with unbranded liveries, so there are certainly some ToCs who are protective of their designs, logos or not.

AAS on the other hand…

 

I’d assume because it’s individual creators so it’s not worth it to go after them as there isn’t much to gain or win. But if it was created by Roblox the company, you can bet there would be some C&Ds or something similar sent to go after for lack of licensing.

 

Roblox facing all sorts of legal problems themselves. Far more applauding allegations than breach of copyright and/or plagiarism.

Could also be facing a ban and/or age restrictions in the UK and across Europe as well as the US where most of the legal action is going on at the moment. If the allegations are correct, rightly so.

 

I still don't see any proof. You name a lot of things, but we're talking about colors scheme on trains in a game and we'e not talking about taking audio, assets or a story from others.

Then your part about substantial similarity, we're not talking about a pizza company, using the colors or another pizza company but wit a different name. We talking here about a livery on a digital train, to resemble the real world, but without any logo or company name. In the first example, it's misleading or can harm the sales of the pizza company who had those colors first, but in case of a simulator game, it's not doing harm to a train company.

I don't say a company will never try to sue, but I named a few examples of correct liveries without logo/name, already in TSW. So it's doable to just use the colors.

 

Farming Simulator had mods, released on the in game modhub. When there is no license, for console you get the mod without branding but in the color scheme of the manufacturer. Sony and Microsoft don't allow to release stuff on their platforms without license, but if they where allowed and as the mod is released by Giants Software, companies can sue them for a violation. The mods are made by individuals, but released by Giants Software, so in case Roblox releasing those games on their platform, they still can be held responsible and being sued.

 

Unbranded does feel half assed, but the Island Line is a complete screw up.

 

That's your opinion and I don't agree with it. I have more problems with GWE remaster and the use of incorrect stock like the 450 and 484. Also the 1st GWR livery is incomplete on GWE remaster and there was a choise to just left it out, while for Island Line 2022, there wasn't much of a choise due to the missing license.

 

It’s just a few examples. The point is, you can’t just remove a logo and be free from legal issue.
If you didn’t get that from what I posted above then I don’t know what else I can say.

 

That why for to have backdated routes like in south in Connex and london to have Sliverlink and GNER and Wagen and swt and it's best era ever