Nürnberg - Ingolstadt (and Feucht) Discussion Threa

It's not as if you're forced to use the safety systems either, apart from a couple American routes

 

To get out of a SIFA emergency break, you can just press the Sifa-Button and the breaking will stop. Wait for the breakpipe to return to 5 bar, set the throttle to zero to get out of possible traction lock and you're fine again.
With a PZB emergency break you'll have to come to a full stand and then use the PZB Frei button and do the other steps, too and you're ready to go again.

 

that works for non-expert locos... with expert 101, you only get out of Sifa zw. if you go very fast and are lucky aka the brakes on carriages manage to release before complete stop, which rarely happens... if you drive expert 101 + non-expert carriages (aka substitution sometimes), then it is possible, with fully expert consist, you can bail only rarely ... and that is even if you react very fast and go like 160 or more kph... I tested it and discussed it in length and exhausting detail with ppl much more knowledgeable than me - IRL Sifa zw. is supposed to save the train from a potentially dangerous situation, so in terms of penalty/emergency braking, it is almost like PZB zw.

like, yeah, if you get Sifa penalty and acknowledge it quickly afterwards, the brakes start releasing, but rarely they release completely (and unlock traction lock) while still in motion

it is simple ... but you forget situations which mustnt happen IRL and shouldnt happen when in-game driving - like when you are sleepy... to me it often happened when I had little to no sleep and I got this like microsleep and bam, Sifa zw. ... non-expert locos/trains are forgiving, but when driving expert 101 (havent tried 145, but I am guessing it is like that also), it is brutal

 

You use the lens option in Google Chrome and it translates the text on the image. You can select the original language or let it detect what it is and chose what language you want translated to. Works great. I bust keep the phone open to Chrome while driving and when I get an alarm , grab the phone and read the message

 

Every UK TSW player just reflexively pressed the Acknowledge Sifa/AWS button

 

Sifa does not warn you of a hazard or anything of that sort.

Sifa is there so that the train driver can acknowledge Sifa; because if a train driver were to lose consciousness, for example, they would be unable to acknowledge Sifa and an emergency brake would then be applied.

1. Safety control system (on the railway)

• Purpose: Monitors the train driver’s ability to act.

• Function: The driver must press a button or operate a pedal at regular intervals (usually every 30 seconds).

• Procedure in the event of a failure: If there is no response, the system issues a visual and audible warning. If the driver still does not respond, the Sifa triggers an automatic emergency braking manoeuvre to bring the train to a halt.

 

Yeah that's true, probably also depending own break modes, settings ect. it's just not a "must" condition to come to a full halt, but doesn't mean you won't anyway.

But my point was more that it is certainly not necessary to quit and restart your whole run because of it liek someone claimed earlier.

 

I hope there will be a manual or at least a few pages on how to solve train faults on the 403. Had to run half a service with a faulty left MFD. So no info about LZB and PZB. So did a manual approach towards te station. No idea how to fix this...

 

well, if you drive passenger, which usually means the strongest and most rapid brake modes, then it is almost guaranteed halt ... I even tried 160 and 200 kph, and out of tens of attempts, successful in-motion bailouts were less than fingers on my hand lol

 

I know all this - by dangerous situation I meant exactly that driver's inability to drive the train, be it this or that ... as for the rest, it is very similar to getting PZB zw.... PZB zw. you cant bail out of, as for Sifa, if you "wake up" fast, it starts releasing the brakes... but that takes time, and usually still means that the train gets to a halt, or to a crawl

 

Theres a MFD Switch top right next to the MFD. There you disable the faulty one and get an 'arrow' on the bottom of the active screen to switch between both pages.

 

So how is the performance on ps5?

 

Good framerate, only light blurs seen. All layers active.

 

ok, just noticed sth unusual and cant tell if this is more realistic than other locos/trains or a bug - as usual, instead of just enjoying the route, I would test some basic stuff lol... in this case Sifa

first, the icon on the display appears, then first audible warning, then second audible warning, then third, at which if you still dont react, shortly you get Sifa Zwangsbremsung (which can be bailed out of)


this issue that I am about to describe happens with BR 403, the new version - the throttle should not lock until after third warning aka when you get Zwangsbremsung, BUT with this train, if you acknowledge between second and third audible warning, you dont get Zwangsbremsung, but the throttle still locks (sometimes accompanied by audible "Storung")... so you dont get penalty brakes, but throttle still locks and you have to reset it... it happens in most cases that I described (sometimes not, but that could be in case you acknowledge relatively shortly after second audible warning)

so the question is - is this just more realistic than it used to be (aka it is finally done prototypically) or is this a bug?

before you start saying sth like "oh well, you should periodically press Q" or "you should just acknowledge when you see icon / get first audible warning" I say - duh, I know ... but I want my safety systems functioning properly aka punishing me only when it is intended behavior... thats why there are three audible warnings before it slaps you fully in the face with brakes

 

second issue / bug with 403 - if you turn on AFB, it will apply some brake even with brakes released, as is usual when train is standing still... BUT if you have brake on RELEASED and apply power, it will let you take power (doors will close automatically around 10 kph)... shouldnt there be like traction lock active until you close the doors?

 

minor signage error

here it should be 13 (direction out of Nurnberg) as HUD shows 130 kph

 

Yes, full layers, light blurring...... I'll try to remove some less important layers, but at least two layers with Dostos will need to be turned off and the BR 101 layer is also crowded, if I see correctly only one train at about 6:00 in Nuremberg, so I removed that too

 

some more - when AFB was braking under LZB, sometimes it would lock the throttle (forcing me to then reset throttle to take power, similar bug happened in the past with 411)

edit (will have to test this out again cos it happened too fast for me to notice everything): also, cant tell for sure if fault was with me or the game, but when you are about to exit LZB, Ende starts flashing, then you press Acknowledge and usually the ENDE goes full yellow square, here just the audible Beeinflussung stopped... so now I cant tell if that was the cause of penalty brake or me going too fast... will have to repeat the service to check that out since I forgot to save

edit no.2 after finishing service: when the end of LZB is near, it starts flashing ENDE, when PZB/LZB release button is pressed, it just turns solid, so that is correct; the AFB bug is present, however

 

PS5
IC728 (ICE3) Journey mode
I don't know if it's some kind of LZB mistake or if I missed the reason, but the entire section between Ingolstadt Nord and Nuremberg I was only allowed to drive at 200 km/h ....... I didn't find any train in front of me, I didn't even overtake anyone anywhere ... so I don't know

 

I have had the same problem, first with IC528 and also with IC728 I tested after reading your comment. I wonder if it has to do with the magnetic brakes. After trying several times both services without any success (max speed 200 kph), I cut out the magnetic brakes and activated them again while setting up the train. When reaching the beginning of the 300 kph track, the brake mode changed and the maximum speed rose to 300 kph instead of 200 kph with the reduced brake capacity.

PS5 - no expert mode

 

what exactly is the brake mode on ICE3? I noticed that if I hovered mouse over the tip of one of the levers, it said Brake mode, but had no idea if it did anything or how can I tell if it did or not

 

I used the screen on the right. You can change the brake settings, but besides cutting them out and in, I have no idea what I am doing. I assume without the full option, you cannot drive at 300 kph. A manual would be fine….

 

also, not sure if this is affected by expert setting being on in my case, but I noticed 403 comes with safety systems already on

 

Thank you for the information

 

That is realistic. The train will not apply a traction lock for doors being unlocked (or open). It is your responsibility as a driver not to depart before the doors are locked. Though there is a safety mechanism that locks the doors above 5 km/h.

Cutting out the WB (eddy current brake) will not have an impact of the LZB max allowed speed while moving (though if you do cut out the WB the speed needs to be reduced to 230 km/h). If there is no train ahead it may be an issue with the service speed limit. We will investigate this.

The train has 4 different brake modes (toggled with the button on top of the Train Brake lever):
1. Normal mode (Normalbetrieb): Electric brakes are used first, then WB if available and finally air brakes.
2. Proportional mode (Proportionalbetrieb): A blend of electric brakes and WB (if available) or air brakes are used. This mode is required if the train is slipping since it spreads out the brake force on all the axles reducing the required adhesion. If already in Normal mode and the speed reduces below 25 km/h proportional mode is automatically enforced.
3. Buffer stop mode (Prellbockbetrieb): Only air brake is applied. This is used for coupling/approaching buffers.
4. Wheel cleaning mode (Putzbremsbetrieb): Same as (3) but used at high speed to clean the discs from contamination/snow.

If you use the classic aka "normal" HUD there is an indication with a symbol displaying the current brake mode. IRL there is no indication of which mode is used and the driver relies on knowledge of when the different modes can be triggered and the behaviour of the train to know/predict which mode is used.

Schematic:

 

Oh wow, so this is (nearly?) the first german train to do that prototypically? Cool. Talk about learning something new every day...

Although seriously, the doors being open isn't a traction lock cause in actual german trains?!? This responsibility talk so loved by the germans is LOVE, planning that to be a lock in the real life train would be so easy, and entirely avoid any potentially deadly mistakes...but they insist on it having to be the driver, a fallible human, to remember everything...absolutely idiotic.
I also work in a tech sector with doors that absolutely need to be closed before proceeding and let me tell you, our instrumentation 40 years ago made already damn sure they had to be closed, if you wanted to do anything...

 

so this is another case of "more realistic than usual" aka some feature being more realistic than on past models?

what about this thing? O

 

I also drive in no expert mode
It can't be the brake settings, I've never touched anything yet and I've already driven a regular ICE3 service and the max was 300km... there might be something with the settings at that service, as was mentioned here a moment ago by cwf.green

 

Noticed a fault Hektokilometer sign at Geisberg Tunnel Southern entrance where it reads 79/4 on the trackside towards Nuremberg, whereas it is correct at 81/4 on the trackside towards Ingolstadt.

Kind regards.

 

Well, you actually caught a sifa penalty brake there, you just released it a few frames later. The "Störung" indicates that there was a malfunction triggered by that, "Sifa Zwangsbremsung", which also clears immediately on releasing it.

Thats actually a bug i found, sadly after release lockdown. The wrong widget switcher gets called in the flashing logic. I'll submit a fix for the next patch tho.

The WB brake enabled state is controlled by LZB. It will only activate for service brakes on designated highspeed sections, else it will only activate on penalty/emergency brake setting (BP <3.2bar)

 

I was confused cos usually both traction lock and penalty brake appear only after third audible warning... here the traction lock engages somewhere between second and third, and after third the Zwangsbremsung sounds and triggers brakes

I dont know, maybe this is prototypical, same as the thing with doors, and we just had a crutch before... it was just weird that I got traction lock already after second audible warning (I mean, I still try to press Q at either the icon or first audible warning, but for my peace of mind I like to know Sifa works as it should)

 

It is actually very common in european trains to work like that except for the modern computerized ones. On contrary, it is a safety feature - it was usual that the train supervisor remained standing in open door watching as the train leaves the station so that nobody is too close to the departing train, trying to open doors or for example that nobody got caught by jacket in closed doors. Wagons would still automaticly close and block the doors at 5-10 km/h anyways, and that is hardly a deadly speed.

 

I just watched Train Sim Society’s review of the route (very good video in my opinion), and I was absolutely shocked. I couldn’t believe a reputable studio like TSG dared to release a product as bad as this one. Some of the bugs they showed are downright laughable and remind me of older releases by Rivet Games which were famously panned by the community. And the fact they didn’t improve the old BR 101 at all is incomprehensible to me. DTG should have never greenlit a loco lacking so many core features. This is crossing a red line for me and should be entirely disallowed. And the justification is very tone-deaf — you expect us to pay a premium price for a lackluster route and then pay for the Expert loco (which was only ever supposed to be a super premium product for a niche audience) on top of that?

Suffice to say, I’m very disappointed in TSG for thinking they can get away with this, and in DTG for giving it the green light despite so many rules being broken. This very much feels like a turning point. With Just Train’s recent DLC that was plagued by bugs and performance issues, and this embarrassing release by TSG, it seems like the two “titans” of TSW 3rd party content that haven’t really had a misstep until now have unfortunately fallen. There are now no TSW content developers you can have full confidence in at all.

Like… just imagine how huge the community outcry would be if a random third party developer packaged a loco that is half a decade old into a new route without any improvements — except here we literally have the most highly regarded developer doing it. I’m literally speechless. Just so disappointed.

 

Can you explicitly say which bugs exactly you are talking about? Because that could actually help improve this product. From your post, it is impossible to gather constructive feedback except for the standard 101.

 

I watched the video as well. I am keeping a close eye on when and to what extent the bugs mentioned in this thread will be fixed.

 

So I was watching something recently that feels weirdly relevant to this route and the game itself.



More specifically at eight minutes in they talk about the modeling of the aircraft, and this quote sticks out.

This I think applies very well to this route specifically, it does look like it had care put into it. But it really feels like the care went into the wrong places. Little details and extra features are nice, but when there's issues with route performance and them providing five year old unmodified stock happen... Well it really does sour things like the excellent detail when you think about what time could've been spent to fix the issues people are having right now.

 

You’ve done exactly the same thing with Talent 2 in this DLC, which I really can’t understand either.

And I genuinely wonder whether the beta testers actually tested this DLC at all.
I can’t imagine they did.
Because otherwise, they would at least have spotted the wobbly wheels and the control cable in the two control carriages, which runs right through the entire control carriage and into the next carriage.
This DLC was simply released far too early and in a rush.

 

I honestly think developers should just put down their swords, and stop even trying to create content. Let the players create it for themselves, just sell them an empty shell of the editor and call it Train Sim Next. We already have seen both Maik, and Corin be treated completely unfairly, and others also reacting by withdrawing from the community. The mental strain that they are subjected too by the "Karen" type public is atrocious. I will never and never support this style of videos TrainSimSociety does. I wonder what would keep his channel running if there were no DLC?

I think as a content creator one should be a person that understands the context of what they create content about, the fact that besides the product, there are people who are working on them as a job, out of enthusiasm or out of financial need. You don't go into the store and instigate against the workers because a damaged product is on the shelf. You put in a formal complaint, not go around shouting "where is the manager", or kick down the shelves, like the childish bunch on this forum does. If you do not like the store you go to the one next door, if you keep coming back then the problem is you.

 

Ok, so from now on don't point out obvious bugs (they are real and not some evil-minded imagination to make Devs upset) or you're a "Karen"?

 

No, constructive feedback is never wrong. And devs do apprectiate it a lot.

It's a different story if people start attacking devs on a personal level. And there are some specialists on this forums, doing that day by day. That is the difference. It's not about pointing out bugs (which is important and good that it happens). It's about how you communicate that.

 

Of course - but I followed these threads over the last days because I tried to decide whether to get the route or wait a bit for fixes.
I haven't really seen much, if any of personal attacks of any kind? Maybe I've missed them.
Ppl should be allowed to point out flaws of a product they've spent a non-trivial amount of $ on.
And "then do it better yourself" is probably the lamest (non)reply one could possible give.

 

There doesn't seem to be another store, next door or anywhere else on this 'simulation high street', so there is not exactly another store one can simply go to instead - as far as console is concerned there is only one game published by one developer that has the range of countries included as TSW.

That analogy doesnt work i think as if you purchased a faulty product or a product that didn't work as it was intednded to from a store, you would absolutely go back to seek a remedy from the store first. and if they are not able to remedy *then* you would go to a manufacturer or similar.

 

How about people just factually report bugs they have seen so the game can actually be improved. No further rhetoric required (let alone personal attacks). Very lovely that one can watch a video and summarize it here for us, while simultaneously voicing their disappointment, but it doesn't help things forward in any way whatsoever.

 

Oh, you should get it. Most of the bugs actually reported here are correct, but none have done anything to prevent me enjoying this route very much.

 

Where are those mysterious personal attacks, tho?

 

Yes you have missed them;-) Jan was doing some cleaning recently and had deleted at least one comment.

But besides this, I have also watched TSS‘ video and believe he has some valid points. However, it always comes down to personal preferences and we would all do good to accept other people opinions. That does not mean we can not comment on other comments. Personally it always annoys me if people comment in a generalised way and act as if they would be talking for the whole community. Even worse, get offended if you don’t accept this and make a point of it. I (like all of us) have my own personal drivers and have different priorities in a DLC.

All in all, coming back to mentioned video, while I believe that those topics are all valid for some (including the YouTuber himself, as he rightly mentions it several times, that it is his personal preferences), most of them are simple not so important for me personally.

I do own the expert 101, for example, and don’t mind they are reusing the old 101. I also understand the devs that the extra time was simply not part of the business plan. Also, the floating assets, for me it weighs much more that they are newly build assets and give a complete new feel to this route. Yes, floating cars on a car park are annoying, but not a deal breaker for me, nor would I ever get agitated about it.

Anyway, just my personal 2 cents. Anyone else is free to have their own (and other) opinion!

 

TSS Matt does and his reviews are always informative and fair to both the developers and the players. Don’t lump him in with those who attack developers on the forum because he doesn’t do that. He was right to laugh at those wobbly wheels and say it looks like an alpha release. It’s the developers who are expecting people to pay for this stuff and things like that do point to something lacking in their methods. He also points out all the great things about the route and the trains. He is very fair. I find myself agreeing with him on nearly everything.

I really do think that everyone developing for TSW should be anticipating what he might say in his reviews when they are deciding what to allow through in a release, like wobbly clown car wheels. It may improve TSW in the long run. He’s doing everyone a great service in my opinion.

 

This. 100% agree.

 

I recommend just watching the video directly since he does a really good job showing off the biggest bugs and giving constructive criticism.

But the most unacceptable things I noticed in the video:

• No rain effects at all on the windscreen of the new cab car (there is/was a similar bug with Rivet’s Class 385, and people understandably wouldn’t stop talking about it).
• The wheel rotation on the new cab car is severely off-center (possibly the most hilarious TSW bug I’ve ever seen, how did nobody notice this??).
• Horn audio on the new cab car is choppy (this used to be a problem with locos that came out in the late 2010s lol).
• Some of the PIS inside the München-Nürnberg-Express is broken.
• Severe texture pop-in and/or bad transitions from low-poly to high-detail model stages.
• Frequent crashes to desktop.

To be honest, even though the missing features on the included outdated DB BR 101 were classified as intentional omissions to make the Expert 101 more worth it (insane), I would still call them bugs. No matter how they try to spin it, every piece of TSW6 rolling stock should be mandated to include TSW6 features like:

• Suspension
• In-cab announcements
• Train Faults
• And many more features that were implemented since the original BR 101 was released.

Other newly released locos that were missing some of these features were widely criticized by the community (such as the accidentally released clip of the Tadami Line in the state it almost got released in, completely lacking suspension physics).

 

The bugs I've seen showcased on here should've easily been caught by internal QA. The lack of rain effects and that wheel feel sub-freeware quality, much less the payware standards the route's supposed to be judged by.

I brought up the iniBuilds aircraft from before, and they've gathered a reputation for releasing aircraft effectively in early access without letting people actually know it's early access. The A350 I knew launched rough, and more recently I've seen the A220 they helped get across the line is horribly optimized. TSG feels like they've taken the same path, they might have passion on some level, but it feels like money has gotten to their heads from being the golden child developer for so long.