Airedale And Wharfdale Lines Disscusion

Ok, so it's nice to see a network route instead of a a-b route for the core UK route but there are some missed opportunites.

First off, why is the Class 333 the seperate add-on, why can't it be included with the route, why can't we have more than one new train with a core route. A Northern DMU would've been a better Deluxe purchase because, like the ALP45DP, it would be used on services to non-electrfied destinations like Barrow-in-Furness, Lancaster, and Morecambe. It could be also used for Ai services to places like York, Sheffield and Huddersfield. Something like the Class 156, Class 150/0 or the Class 195 (which is just a diesel 2 and 3car 331) would be suitable.

The NT Class 158
Ok so then we see that a Northern DMU is coming to the game, problem solved? Not really, because the 158 won't be released along side the "new game" so there'll be a gap in the services when the route releases.

The Class 66 and JYA wagon
Ok cool, we're getting a new wagon with a route - take notes Skyhook - but why, WHY, is the 66 being recycled with NO alterations AGAIN?! WHY is so much to ask to get the DB Cargo 66 with newer headlights. Any alteration to the 66 is so long overdue that it isn't funny. I recall the line being spoken in the Direct: "who doesn't love some 66 action", not when the same 66 has been recycled in so many add-ons with just a couple livery alterations and inaccuracies with the Engineering Express 66s that still haven't been fixed.

TPE services
On Cathcart Circle and Manchester Airport Commuter, the TPE services are represented by an LNWR 350/1 in place of TPE's now gone TPE 350/4s.
TPE frequently use Leeds station as part of services to Liverpool, Newcastle, Scarborough, Cleethorpes, and Manchester Airport. So another gap in the services is gonna be present unless we can get a TPE licence and a route like Leeds to Scarborough.
Route - Leeds To Scarborough | Dovetail Games Forums

Lack of the line the Doncaster
While this isn't part of the Airedale and Wharfdale lines, it isn't that long and wouldn't require any additional motive power to whats already included. It would also add more services for the Class 801 and another full service for the Class 331, so this is another missed opportunity

 

I thought that about the 333 as I thought the 331 would work better to be used elsewhere like you can see with Scotsman, and the Pendolino and Voyager.

I think the 158 is the only DMU that runs here, and I guess a third party add-on can't be a deluxe loco.

Wouldn't surprise me if that came at some point

 

Grand Central use Bradford Interchange rather than Forster Square - you wouldn’t see them on this route.

 

They always provide a deluxe loco. The 158 isn't theirs so they wouldn't use it as a deluxe loco.

I'm not sure it's a big deal if there is a gap between the route coming and the 158. I suspect it won't be that long a wait.

 

Stunning product. The class 333 and 331 are iconic Northern trains so good job!

 

My main question has to be, what involvement have Rivet had with this and what steps are in place at DTG to ensure they deliver on quality? Particularly concerned if they have done both EMU’s as their sound work is awful. And we know from Fife Circle and Cardiff City their propensity to use Roblox style buildings everywhere. Will the main stations end up like Cardiff Central with no concourse and no frontage?

 

They did a good job on the Riviera route. And Cardiff whilst having the odd poor building, I would say it is pure hyperbole to suggest they are everywhere.

Do we know whether Rivet have even made the EMUs for this route? DTG have their own sound guy as he was talking on the stream last night.

Best to wait and see what it looks like surely rather than assuming?

 

Oh definitely will be watching and waiting but best to get the question out in the open. Given the German and USA routes are of little interest this time round, the best chance of DTG making some Day One money off me is for the £30 Standard UK edition - if I’m convinced it’s worth it. Otherwise, there’s far more interesting DLC in the pipeline to keep my Steam credit back for.

 

This one actually surprised me & may be the one DLC that leads (no pun intended) me to purchase TSW7.

Nice full network route that runs out of not one, but two cities & to its multiple destinations. It’d be well within the usual scope of just adding Leeds to one destination & forgoing the others, so really nicely surprised here.

As for the standard & deluxe rolling stock choices I don’t have an issue really. The 331 would be needed on pretty much any other Northern Electrics route in the standard TSW era, so having it standard is sensible IMO. The 333 is much more niche & for those who don’t want it, they aren’t really going to miss anything on other routes since it only runs on a couple IRL. Compare these 2 to something like the 390 which is pretty much a £15 paywall to any AWC layers on multiple routes.

Really looking forward to some Northern action that isn’t a misplaced SR158, 323 or misbranded 350.

I really hope considering they’ve got both the 331/0 & /1 that it’ll sub in on the existing Northern Trains AC layers/routes.

 

One of the good things with this Network style route is that not all services or diagrams are just Leeds & back - take this for example, if you stick with this same unit, you can do a 4 1/2 round trip from Leeds via every part of the map pretty much.

 

The problem I have is that the 333 is the most common unit on the route. When you think of Airdale and Wharfdale, you think of the 333, so it seems a bit cheeky that you have to pay extra for it. It's a bit reminiscent of how the 390 was deluxe only despite that being the most common unit of WCMLS.

 

I liked the comment in the FAQ that AI content will be layered at Keighley. Steam locos waiting at the K&WVR platform?

(Sad, though, that it won't be on GeForce Now at launch, so I won't be able to find out for myself!)

 

Yeah I get that completely, but then having the 331 as a stock DLC would be an issue too IMO, like I said above it’s too integral to other NT routes to be paywalled.

Maybe the 331 could have been omitted completely & the 333 could be base, with a 91 as a deluxe offering. I think though if it were down to me & the only options are the 331 & 333, then DTGs decision is also what I’d go with.

 

I feel for anyone that inadvertently goes for the standard version, this route is gonna be pretty dead without the 333. 12 out of 17 'circuits' are 333 with the other 5 being 4x 6 Car 331s and 1x 3 car 331.

 

Oh ye mb

 

Basically it is funnelling people into thinking might as well stump up the £58 for the whole shebang, rather than the £42 it would cost to buy the route and 333 DLC separately unless you wait for a sale. Don’t quite understand why DTG don’t just pitch the price at the normal two train route pack of £35.

 

Well there will be plenty of publicity about the options with charts as per last year. If anyone inadvertently buys the wrong thing then it is on them. If you are spending that much money, surely you are going to be reading the fine details not just hitting the buy it button.

 

I'm aware of that

Ik, which is why I didn't suggest it for a DMU, the point I was tryna get across is that a Northern DMU should've been the Deluxe purchase so there would be diesel services from the start.

 

Vern asks questions that some may want to know the answer to....but choose not to ask themselves for fear of being branded a negative Nancy.

Besides, if you're contemplating spending the equivalent of half the price of a brand new AAA game on a DLC with no quality guarantees whatsoever then any question is fair game because like it or not, premium priced products should come with premium levels of scrutiny.

 

How Long would be the line ?

 

35 something miles I think so it's bigger than Cardiff City network and Cathcart Circle

 

Apparently the whole thing Totals 54 miles

 

you can make criticisms without always basing it on the same thing though. one handled emu route? “it should’ve been in the br era.” modern diesel route? “it should’ve been in the br era”. a dlc simply doesn’t interest you? “there’s plenty of other things i can spend my steam wallet on”. this isn’t a personal attack whatsoever, so please don’t take it that way, but it is incredibly boring seeing the same thing spouted every time a route is announced about how much of a missed opportunity it is that it’s not set in the BR era. it’s not going to change anything at the end of the day

 

i don’t mean to ruin the thread already, the last thing anyone wants is yet another lockup because of others not conducting themselves properly, so i really ought to give my initial thoughts on this route

• very nice to have a COMPLETE network, especially since cardiff wasn’t really that. it’s an okayish route, but it’s too slow paced for me, and i can see myself playing this network far more
• also pleasing to see that the core uk route isn’t just an end to end route this time around- you can argue that it wasn’t a pure end to end route last year because of the paignton branch, but just from my perspective, i never drive that because again, it’s too slow mainly due to the diesel traction
• disappointing that the 333 is the deluxe loco, but by this point i'm used to the main, star piece of stock on a core route being a deluxe loco. i suppose it makes the most sense from a commercial standpoint too
• finally, i really hope the performance of this route holds up. it’s a lot of stations and lots of dense scenery, along with a busy timetable to i’d be lying if i said im not expecting some blurries and crashing at some point. let’s cross our fingers that the optimisations are noticeable

 

Fantastic point and absolutely love this idea, it's everything that Cardiff isn't, ie a "real network" and the idea of doing a kind of a shift is right up my street, i'll keep a note of these services and then hopefully will replicate this very soon. I am bit disappointed that we don't have Donny to Leeds, as it would have been a great chance then of full Kings Cross to Leeds - but who knows what lies in store for the future?

 

I'm looking forward to this route, however I also keep in mind this route can suffer from blurry textures and other performance issues and bugs. I can understand people are not that happy nowadays, especially console players.

DTG really has some (a lot of) work to do, to solve long overdue issues and gain back trust. I really like to play this route, but with all the issues, I also want to hold back and wait to see how it performs.

 

Yeah I really hope we can get that route in the future.

I really hope this doesn't blur too, because I'm also looking forward to this too

 

Thanks! TSW still features in my top five playlist and the only reason I ask searching questions is because, 1. I want it to be the best it can be and, 2. We have been here before when things have been over promised and under delivered. Some of the forthcoming DLC, assuming it’s more than just an editor screenshot sent to Matt in an email is looking b***dy good - the Railjet, the Dutch route, the Romanian route, the Newquay branch and Firefly’s little branch line. If that had been the TSW7 bundle, £58 would already have left my Steam Wallet.

And basically at this point, I’m like many others. I want to see and particularly hear a bit more about what’s on offer. Will the new US locos recycle the existing GM/GE/Caterpillar sounds we already have in game? Will the 331 and 333 use Rivet’s 484 and 385 audio which sounds like a Roswell UFO taking off? And I would still like to know why they cannot offer more than the one save game slot…

 

I'm playing Riviera line without layers, as soon as I add GWE I get blurry textures. Leipzig - Dresden however, blurries already without layers, all freight loco substitutions do not help on this route I guess.

So at least I hope we can play this route with the Class 331 and 333, + 801 and 66 without getting blurry textures.

 

Noticed that they are still using the old unrealistic speedsigns unfortunately - why can't they upgrade to a set like Firefly/ATS's?

 

Few things im hopefull for.
1. Kwvr extension for some steam services. (Flying scotsman) Maybe even Bolton Abbey steam.
2. Ai layers running at leeds. Class 802s for tpe. Class 150, 153, 156, 158 and 170 running ai northern services. Maybe even layer in the 142 pacer. Use the 331 to substitute the 195s and the 220 cross-country. Add in the base and deluxe locos and freight loco we could have over 15 different trains to use. I really hope there bring leeds to life. Also with neville hill been in the game would add quite a bit of playable depot moves. Even with the tarmac spur outside neville hill although i think that heads off the wrong way. Doubt there will add *Holbeck depot but would be a plus.
Definitely looking forward to this route as its one of my local routes

 

Stick with it Vern you are entitled to your views as much as anyone.

 

The problem with them adding a DMU as the deluxe loco is that they only really run 158s or 150s on both lines (Leeds to Skipton or Bradford), both of which exist in some form already. The only option would have been a 195 (that run to Bradford) but then people would say it’s too similar to the 331 as they’re the same body. In this case I can see the reasoning tbh

 

This is probably going to surprise the people who know me on the forums and discord but this looks like a good route with interesting stuff unlike most modern routes

Especially with the include of a new freight wagon and the end to end freight runs with loading and possibly a class 70 layer (not sure on the area for that)

the only let down is the fact I have to pay for nt class 158 for some of the services (mainly annoyed because I already own it twice and now they are bringing out another two of the same train with very little differences)

 

I'm guessing DTG couldn't either get permission to use the likeness for Bridgewater Place tower (aka the Dalek) near Leeds station or they just simply couldn't be bothered to make a custom model to represent it.
Like in NTP where they used a LOVE asset to signify the Yorkshire Evening Post building that looked nothing like what it should have.
I did notice that they have tried to represent Quarry House though which is between the station and Neville Hill depot.

 

I'm quite pleased with this add-on tbh. Fairly local to me, and actually a semi interesting route with a good self-contained (and varied!) service pattern. Hoping there's a bit of AI heritage traffic at Keighley and possibly on the tiny section of the Rylestone branch that meets the Embsay and Bolton.
Couple of misgivings mind - largely that the 333 isn't the default that comes with it as it is by far the most common unit on the route, and the inauthenticity of the DB operations on the Rylstone branch. If it was backdated a couple of months back we could have even had a class 60 - now that would've been appealing!
Plus I feel there's a risk Leeds could be a bit sparse - XC, LNER and Northern's electric services can be represented, but there's going to be a distinct lack of TPE and the far more common Northern DMU services

 

Does the Class 323 run here irl? I believe I saw a glimp of it in the stream.

 

Nope, 323s are all on the western axis of Northerns operations around and out of Manchester & Liverpool

 

Just thought this was amusing, posted over on the Rail Sim Community forum on Saturday.
Obviously the route was already built last week, but it's still a valid point.
I never really got into MSTS, but weren't all of these in MSTS/Railworks? I swear I saw a Florida route like Tri Rail and a route mentioning Wurzburg.
I thought I'd seen them, but maybe it was creator downloads... I dunno maybe someone who is a player of that could comment?

 

Oh right, I didn't account for the quarry branch, Neville Hill depot and the aggragette terminal

 

I know nothing about this route beyond a connection with terriers and classic hi-fi speakers.

Last year the Riviera line and extra loco (Cl. 220 Voyager?) had me fetching a crowbar to prise open my wallet and I felt delighted with my purchase. I don't feel anything for this route though there is a small chance of me buying it if the reported performance is ok and only when hugely discounted.

I also realise the shocking reality that others dare to have different views to me and I hope they get a well made product that looks good, runs well and gives much enjoyment.

 

Not bad !

 

Tad naff, one way to save some money then

 

Oh grow up. Ive seen players ask for routes set in certain areas all of the time. Not a bad thing in the slightest. As for there are better things to spend money on, that frankly for some players is true. Doesn't necessarily mean that one is a hater or dislikes the game overall otherwise they would not be playing the game or be here. It just means that the DLC is not worth the money asked in their opinion due to issues or quality. If anything, some TSW DLC's present poor value for money compared to other tsw DLC's and games. These DLC's are not cheap

I don't get why some get worked up and overreact when someone has a negative view on a particular DLC or has fair questions on a DLC that costs $40+

 

I mean there's only so many routes and Train simming has been going about 25 years at this point, so i don't mind some repeats at this point.

Cajon Pass, Horseshoe Curve, and parts of the NEC among many others have featured across multiple games at this point

There was the CSX Florida route in Railworks but not sure that it had Tri Rail included.

 

Ironic that the same people calling others children for liking modern trains often get their shorts in a bunch when they can't handle the complication of mandatory safety systems on routes like LIRR and New Haven. Guess that one handle was trickier than expected!

It's ok to just say you don't like something- why the unnecessary gatekeeping?

 

Well there is still loads of untapped territory in the USA and Canada. I’ve already mentioned a few but another one that comes to mind is the old Corbin to Etowah (CSX?) route that featured in Trainmaster 3, the OG side scrolling version. I always thought that might be a good one to have in a proper cab view sim. They also really need to have another go at sweet talking MTA for the NYC Subway or see if Toronto would play ball.

 

I wasn’t particularly fussed about this route yesterday, but the more I think about it, the more intrigued I am. Both locos look really well made from what we’ve seen so far. I’ll wait for the preview stream before deciding whether to buy.

 

I hope those diagrams make it into Journey Mode, it would be really good to play a chapter that was a single genuine 4 1/2 hour shift.