Enough Is Enough!!! The Ongoing Saga!!! It's Almost The 3 Year Anniversary

No way...

if this means that the standard route pricing is now £32.99, the absolute cheek of this company is insane.

when JT revealed Preston - Carlisle with a brand new £32.99 price tag, that was understandable, the route had a lot of things going for it and it was detailed and long enough to warrant it, Zwolle Groningen had 2 new locos, fair enough, locos are expensive to make. Same with the Czech route, that was incredibly detailed with a bunch of different varients and 2 new locos.

however, as the standard route pricing? What the hell are DTG thinking? Did they not earn enough from the 6 iterations previously? Do they seriously have to raise prices again?

Unless DTG or other third party devs actually puts in effort to make DLCs worth it, its the worst thing you can possibly do...

If £32.99 becomes the standard price for routes, what would be the price for super detailed routes, like the Czech routes, the JT routes, the TSG routes and other routes that are incredibly detailed and filled with loads of different things?

£35.99? £39.99?

the absolute nerve, honestly, I cant believe this company sometimes.

 

Sorry you feel that way old chum, but I don’t intend to leave the forum. If you don’t like what I have to say put me on your ignore list…

 

No problem its you're choice. You are the one that have a lot of complaints. I thought maybe you don't like the game so it's better that you move on and enjoy other games on the market.

 

Gotta make up for that lost Gen8 income somehow.

 

The employment cost of people is a lot more than their salary. NI, pension contributions, office space, IT, line management and support activities (like payroll and HR), training etc. Their actual cost to the business is probably nearer twice what they get paid.

 

Sorry, are you serious?

Because if a company were to spend twice as much money as it earns, it would have gone bankrupt long ago and would no longer be in business.

 

I think you misunderstand me. I'm saying the true cost to a business of employing an individual is a lot more than the salary they are paid.

If I employ you on £30K a year, the full cost to my business will be nearer £60K a year, so you have to be productive.

This is in the context of OldVern's comment above about apparently unnecessary roles at DTG.

 

DLC has been £32.99 for a while now, at least for the TSW6 stuff. There's still content on the XBox store from older games that was priced lower, but whenever a route arrived on XBox in the last year or so it's been that price, apart from the Thames Valley Branches.
I'm bracing myself for a "costs are higher than we anticipated, we're having to nudge prices up to £35" around the time of the December update when console versions don't get the lovely new lighting features, or extra layers for forthcoming routes.

 

In defence of DTG, the new prices aren't unreasonable, taking into account inflation.

Routes in TSC and the early years of TSW were £25, which people seemed to find acceptable.

According to the Bank of England's inflation calculator, something costing £25 in 2020 should now cost £32.81, if it's risen exactly with inflation. DTG don't look like they are profiteering.

 

Yes but as I pointed out, this is entertainment not food, gas, electricity or water. It should be pitched at what people are prepared to pay. And most route DLC’s with one (or no) new train have been priced at £29.99. The only sweetener they could bring is the return of the 5 or 10% off discount for a pre release purchase.

And at this point maybe DTG do need to do a serious assessment of how they can cut costs (but not product quality) to keep the price of DLC attractive.

Even if this was a totally bug free game and high quality DLC (which it isn’t) it doesn’t justify that sort of price level.

 

Sorry, but over the past 10 years the prices of TSW have hardly increased. You can’t really claim that it has become excessively more expensive over a decade, especially when you compare it to triple‑A games, which have easily gone up by 20–30% in the same period.

 

Raising the prices, especially at this moment, is not a smart move in my opinion. The quality of the product is not good enough, the blurry texture issues are going on for to long now and some route specific issues are never fixed. This all is not really justifying a price raise and then there is that level of what people seems a fair price and what not. For a good product, 30 - 33 Euro is acceptable, 36 Euro was for me already not feeling as a good price point anymore. They did already routes of 40 Euro, but for me this was not good value for money. Maybe if a route is exceptional or when they include more train, so you don't need layers.

The last point about layers is another thing, once you bought that route of 36 or now 40 Euro, you aren't there. You need other routes for layers to get a somehow busy line and other routes for only some static stock.

So for 40 Euro, I expect better quality and more included with the route, so I don't have to buy other routes for static stock and other layers. I also expect less reused locos, BR 185 and Class 66 comes to mind.

 

Triple A games tend to work, and have the same features across all their platforms.

 

If there are going to be patch updates and core improvents that go along with these price increases then sure. but Dovetail are offering the exact same experience (to console players at least) as the last few years..... and we still have DLC that needs reduced layers (read: less content) compared to the PC and history has proven Dovetail dont mind charging us the same price for an objectively different piece of DLC.

Seems the more one thinks about this the more squiffy it seems to be.... curious

 

It's the whole "look at these amazing new graphics and these things we have coming. Wishlist and pre-order it now on Steam and the Epic Game Store. Oh yeah, it'll be on consoles as well." They don't even have different horn noises for the UK locos anymore, which is part of how you tell the difference between them when you're out and about in real life.

 

Simrail has routes from one country, and has limited single player appeal unless you want to play multiplayer.

The experience on TSW is much more varied with yet another new country being added to the latest roadmap, it has routes dating back to the 60's and 70's.

It amuses me that some seem to be so keen to promote Simrail. How often have we seen "I'm off to play Simrail" for the poster, a few weeks later, seemingly bored with Simrail is back here interested in the latest add-on for TSW. Rinse and repeat.

Does Simrail not have it's own forum?

When I can drive a first generation BR DMU in Simrail on a 24 hour timetable then I will take a closer look, this is something I can do in TSW on multiple routes.

 

If you dont like dont spill your'e money on TSW and play tripple A games... Those games are so perfect right?!

 

Yeah true...
By now it has become the usual tantrum… constantly complaining about prices and promoting SimRail as “the place to be.” It’s quite irritating and frankly unnecessary.

 

If one discusses prices, one should discount for general inflation. So you can gauge what the actual value of the increase is.
If you do this over a longer period (say to the beginning of TSW in 2017), prices may not seem so bad compared to then.

 

People have so much free time to write about this on forums. Although, a simple bot that would post hackneyed phrases about sim rails, poor quality, blurry textures, etc. would be enough.

 

Will draw a line under this one as far as mentioning the Polish Sim. As someone who has decades of experience on front line rail ops its not hard to get pretty tired of TSWs rigid routing, emphasis on points scoring and marketing spin and no way of saving more than once and still possibly crashing. In the end its only an opinion. Other sims such as Zusi, TSC and DRS also provide a decent few hours.

I am looking forward very much to the 108 on the JT routes and the remaster of NTP.

 

I haven't played it, it does look good in screenshots and you don't need to own just one simulator.

I personally don't see what it offers that TSW doesn't apart from Polish routes, multiplayer and the ability to be a signaller, the latter is something I would love to see in TSW.

Is Simrail perfect, does it not have flaws? And, if it does are they less than TSW's flaws?

As for the cost, no-one ever needs to buy anything full price, especially if you are on Steam. Work out whether a particuar DLC is going to be value for money at that price, if not, wait for a sale or don't buy it at all. Everything is going up related to running a business, wages, utility bills, rents, rates, NI contributions recently, stationary, other supplies. There gets to a point where a company cannot keep absorbing these extra costs. I see it as part of my day job.

But, I am glad I don't work for some of these business "experts". For 18 years we have been hearing how RSDL, then Dovetail in its former guise and current guise as part of Pullup or whatever they are called, is doing this wrong, charging too much, is dying, they don't know what they are doing etc. Well they are still here, do people not get bored of repeating the same conspiracy theories ad-infinitum.

 

Could argue that you should just skip Vern's contributions if they bother you so much. It works both ways. Everybody has a right to express their view. Vern is very passionate about the game working well.

 

Also remember this is the enough is enough thread. Designed for those of us who wish to vent (wanting to see improvement not have to dump TSW).

 

I don't normally agree with your comments (they come across as being a bit too 'TSW pacifist' for my liking) but on this occasion I can't find any reason to disagree with what you're saying.

What I will say though is that you don't need to be an "expert" to understand the general ruling of 'the more you charge, the less inclined people are to use your services' because it's there to be seen wherever you care to look....customer loyalty is a complete myth!
Talking of which, I've also read on multiple occasions of this myth that small business have to pass on ever-increasing overheads to the consumer...which is completely untrue. Large companies that can easily absorb any potential offsets, yes - but smaller businesses already surviving on being competitive, absolutely not!
First hand knowledge of this being working for a very small (one full time and one part time employee) and moderately successful engineering company that was already operating at rock bottom profit margins but eventually succumbed to those higher operating overheads because we had no choice but to pass on those extra costs and our customers just went elsewhere or made the parts themselves.

I know that scenario isn't really applicable to Dovetail Games but the fact remains that the customer's primary focus will always be value for money.

 

Interesting article about DTG/TSW from April 2026.

https://simulatoren-news.com/articl...ally-but-is-the-annual-train-sim-world-6-and/

It is a good balanced article and I completely agree with the emphasis on "TRUST" as that is currently the area I now feel completely disconnected from TSW. I do not trust them to put the quality of the product and DLCs above the goal of ever increasing profits.

I do not trust DTG to put the satisfaction of long term loyal customers over the the short term instant gratification of raking the money in. Whilst they continue to scoop up new customers they don"t have to care but there is a finite pool of new users especially in such a niche interest as train simulations.

Given the massive increases in hardware costs and the very volatile state of video gaming, DTG are walking a wobbly tightrope with their current operational model. Yearly new version releases and ever costlier DLCs may have paid off for a few years but is it sustainable? The fatigue levels are growing and dissatisfied customer numbers are increasing.

Also DTG now taking the gamble to concentrate on the high end PC market may prove to be a very serious mistake that drives both mid end PC and console players away and starts reducing their revenue stream.

 

Fair enough, I don't intend to come across as a DTG "pacifist". I do complain about things but probably not so often as overall I enjoy the experience so something has to be really grating for me to moan about it.

And, I certainly don't think people shouldn't moan. It is just this constant, "TSW is rubbish so here are all the games I am playing instead" as if it is some kind of badge of honour, well in that case why are you inhabiting a TSW forum if you aren't playing it and it is so awful. Apart from Football Manager and the ocassional other game I am not really a gamer as I only have just enough time to play TSW.

I am sure many are frustrated and do want the sim to be better, we all do, although for some it has to be better on their terms even if it doesn't suit everyone elses. I remain convinced there are a few who for some reason have fallen out with TSW/DTG and can't seem to let it go and come on here to stir the hornets nest, not suggesting that is any of the recent posters to this thread.

 

This is a tad foolish. You make the same complaint every release (and in between) and that's fine because you are entitled to say it and you certainly have a point. But, all the same, you keep on spending anyway. You can't have it both ways.

 

I dont think a three quid increase is that bad in the grand scheme of things. Most DLCs nowadays are of very high standards. You can attain endless hours of entertainment if you so desire.

 

Exactly, what is value for some is not for others. There are some DLC I wouldn't pay more than £10 for but some would.

The saying "many know the cost of everything and the value of nothing" is very apt here.

 

I'm sure they are, but I've also seen people comment on here that on console some of the newer DLC is unplayable and causes crashes when they try to play them. Console players are feeling hard done by, and given the prices they may be a little reluctant to buy a DLC or even base update they can't be sure is going to work properly.

 

I think console owners are right to feel hard done by. I don't think I would pay full price (or any price) for any DLC on console at the moment.

 

A ton of bugs and inaccuracies, only getting worse each year for the bugs due to changing versions instead of staying and fixing

 

Yeah. New bugs to distract from the old, unfixed bugs isn't really how it's supposed to work, but some people have sunk hundreds of pounds into their platform of choice, and it's not like you can transfer those purchases over to PC. It all just goes onto the list of things Matt P says they're looking into or working on.

 

As a console player I’ve become a lot more selective what I purchase over the past couple of years. I used to just buy all UK content as it was released but these days it’s more dependant on who’s developed it and feedback from the forums etc as to whether I’ll bother.

 

I think that’s the way to do it. Luckily we have some amazing 3rd party devs who have given us some fantastic content. Two highlights for me personally being Medway which is absolutely stunning and ticks all the right boxes, and the East Coastway remaster.

 

But you have to look at it from Verns point of view. It's just more money he now has hide from his wife and its getting harder with increased prices and Steam cards going away.

So you can see why he is so distraught.

 

I think we need to stop all this spoiled complaining and take a moment to look at how train simulators have actually developed. This video shows very clearly that TSW is superior when you look at how the game works and how it looks. I’m genuinely grateful to DTG for their work, and I appreciate TSW even more now when you see what a step forward DTG has meant for train simulators. I think some people here would do well to watch this video and reconsider what they’re actually complaining about. I’m not saying you can’t be critical, but judging by what I’m seeing in this topic, some people are really getting ahead of themselves and acting like they can decide half the world. Go outside, take a walk, or do something else instead of dumping all your whining in this thread. Be kind and enjoy the game

 

Couldn't resist the personal jibe, could you.

Play the ball, not the footballer...

Anyhow, I'm off to kill a few super mutants in Fallout 4 for some therapy!
Funny aside, as I'm reinstalling it, Steam shows I have 1112 hours logged on FO4. So to be 100% positive that was a game that really did and still does offer value for money including all the DLC.

 

On a better topic vern, are you looking forward to fallout 5 and the remasters of fallout 3 and new vegas?

 

Most definitely, though whether FO5 will run on my PC is another matter. That will definitely drive an update.

 

“Be kind and enjoy the game”

and further up, publicly humiliate (or try to) another member and tell them nobody would miss them if they departed

You’ve got front I’ll give you that!

 

1: There's a lot more to games than graphics, certainly when you look over at TSC the game struggles to match that games best. There's so many newer games in other, more mainstream series where you can say yeah, they look pretty, but that's about the only thing they have on prior installments. Even go back a decade and even a game as high budget and well regarded as GTAV isn't considered a universal improvement over the prior title. Lot of physics and AI behavior was dumbed down in the 5th title.



Games do not linearly improved, presentation can very much distract from very real reductions in other ways.

2: Even going along with this TSW looks a generation behind other titles, and for what it's worth I'd say similar of MSTS & Rail Simulator. If TSW really is "the pretty game" of the train simulators then it's kind of failing at its job, it really isn't much of a looker. And you're getting those visuals at the cost of simulation depth that games like TSC, Run 8, and Zusi could give you instead.

 

Glad to hear it, I’m also looking really forward to it, it’s finally some good news in the world

 

I'd be curious to see DTG's financials, just to see where this price increase comes from

 

Most likely the men in suit and tie want more

 

Well, that's certainly a theory.
Seems like as a foreigner information is restricted, but if any of our british friends are able to look up and post DTG's financials by having a look here https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/ then I guess we could get a good answer?

 

I have been enjoying TSC on my laptop, and some of the DLC on there is incredibly reasonably priced, plus there's such a variety of locations.

 

What are you talking about? I defend you and you still take it as a jibe.

Everyone has reasons to be upset that prices have gone i just assumed that was yours since you tell us it yourself. I never said it was wrong or a bad thing did I.

 

Some of us dont require a Youtube curated history on Trains Sims, having been an enthusiast for almost 50 years, had simulations pretty much from when they were invented, was around for MSTS, Railworks and all the rest its pretty easy to figure out where TSW lines up now. DTG have their place and I will always be greatful to Matt and the rest of the team for their work. We dont have to like it every time and we dont have to like the price and on a thread labelled enough is enough as long as nothing crosses the line with regards to forum rules we are all free to vent frustration as are other free to post support wherever they see fit.