I hope this doesn't cause a kerfuffle, but I'm just interested in people's thoughts on how the Era issue could be addressed or resolved. Steam, DMU, EMU, Loco. Past, Present. They all have their fans and they all have their merits but for instance, I really want a KGX-PBO ECML South route - either bang up to date modern or recent past (Class 365 for example), however, if it was set in the 1970s I'd have no interest in that, and I'd be disappointed because I'd unlikely get play a modern version. (with the exception of IOW, I can't really think of another route that's been properly updated (maybe GWR remaster), or rebuilt to a new/old era). And I'm equally sure that a modern ECML would put off fans of 1970/1980s diesel. I can't imagine it'd hurt sales in the long term, but it puts people off and alienates them if they don't feel represented. Is there a solution to this conundrum? Should developers tell us the route and let us vote on the era? Could a developer spend double the amount of time creating two versions? Should it be set at just the right time where there is overlap? I'm just curious what people think - and even if they think there isn't an issue, I'm interested in that as well. It was a shower thought, and I'm a curious fella.
I wonder whether some of it is having to get licences to use the liveries, and the fact that the layouts of some of the lines will have changed. It is weird driving the class 52 through all those modern shiny stations and all that overhead catenary when you're doing a Diesel Legends run on the GWR. I get if it's the enthusiasts' railtour stuff, but it does get a little odd. Like I can work out at Victoria when I do Northern Transpennine where I'd be on the station if I was there today. Where the Gregg's is, where the tram stops are, where the Arena concourse is.
A route should be set in exactly that era, that allows for the most interesting operations. A route for example, that had once dense traffic and many goods trains but is nowadays only the same DMU every other hour, shouldn´t ever be a modern route but a route on the other hand, that has more traffic/unique operations today should be set today. It should always be about finding the sweetspot of traffic density, uniqueness and feasibility to allow for the most versatility not only within the route itself, but across the whole TSW catalogue.
I don’t think there is a solution, it doesn’t matter what you make there will always be the ‘why aren’t they doing this’ brigade. As long as there’s a good mix of eras, and not the same era again and again, I think that’s all you can do. You could try making different era timetables, but that (GWE Diesel Legends) went down like a led balloon in TSW and is probably why it’s never been done since. That sort of happens all of the place in TSC though.
I don’t think there’s anywhere near enough representation across all but the ultra modern era. I was going to say it’s clear that the current most done era is the most popular, but then it’s hard to argue otherwise when that’s basically all there is. TSG & JT’s ‘classic’ content always gets high praise, so maybe more older era stuff would be a good call. I don’t think a voting thing is the way to go though, not really fair that only people participating in something like that would get to dictate content for the much wider playerbase. I think the suggestions system works fine for what that side of things needs to be. Only change I’d like to see there is more enforcement of rules & etiquette in that sub-forum. I think all that needs to happen is for the various developers to start adding more variety in era, having one route a year set in 1985 & then 7 other routes set in 2021 is just bland & it’s something I’ve really felt the last couple of years. There’s so many good experiences to be represented out there & that’s not necessarily locked into to either an 80’s themed or late 2010’s route. Unfortunately though the reality seems to be we’ll only ever see a dash of BR 80’s content in a sea of late 2010’s content, with once in a blue moon German pre 80’s. It’s all very disappointingly predictable.
I just think it is in the interest of the sim to have variety. It isn't called present day TSW or 21st century TSW. I actually don't understand why people only advocate for one era. Whilst inevitably modern routes are going to dominate I think the balance is a little too much in their favour although I understand it as that does appear to be the most popular period. Thankfully we have JT and TSG and hopefully the new developer remastering NTP. Surely DTG would want to see a variety of eras, TSW is supposed to put us in the seat of a driver or even passenger and can act as a historical reconstruction of a bygone ers. I still think the abandonment of steam period routes is short sighted. I wonder if eventually we will get to a point where there is some burnout with modern routes when there starts to become little difference between them but that is a long way off I would imagine. I don't see why we can't have duplicate routes in different periods. But please personally I would say, please no more diesel legends, running historic trains under LED signals rather than old fashioned colour lights or even semaphores or maybe under OHEL when there wasn't, it is just a sop and for me doesn't really work
It comes down to the type of route too. When people suggest something like the West Highland or Kyle line then start listing Class 153’s, 156’s even 158’s it makes me shudder. The only way (IMHO) to enjoy those type of routes is as creation intended, a ruddy great loud diesel loco with panoramic view having to work hard on a heavy rake of Mark One or Mark Two coaches. However cut to something like the South Western main line, also oft requested, in truth driving a Desiro with a letterbox view isn’t going to be all that different to a VEP or CIG. Especially bearing in mind many BR era EMU’s, AC and DC, had traction motors in one of the centre cars. Of course the older era also imparts more variety for freight haulage as opposed to the ubiquitous Class 66 DTG trot out every time. While the upcoming 3P Class 70 will break the monotony, DTG could have done one themselves a while ago along with a Class 56 and Class 60. Then there’s the infrastructure. Riviera Line would have been so much more interesting if it had been set before the remodelling and rationalisation at Exeter and Newton Abbot, along with the introduction of MAS signalling in the 80’s. The current day route is a sterile shadow of its former self. With TSW awash with so many identical routes in identical eras if DTG want to overcome customer fatigue then they do need to start addressing once again putting out more historical or at least semi historic (as in 70’s to 80’s) routes. They also need to crack on and sort out steam traction so we can get classics like the Somerset and Dorset, Great Central London Extension and many others in there.
I think one of the reasons why diesel legends isn't popular is the implementation. The timetable is so quiet. Also when it was announced I thought it meant a Blue/grey HST. If they did it again with a better timetable and some of the new stock I reckon I'd play it more. Similarly I'd be interested in someone doing the same approach for another route (either forwards or backwards in time). Generally though, I think the past is underrepresented in TSW. I would particularly like to see a sectorisation route, with NSE and IC swallow. Often the most interesting time periods are the transitions between eras, when you get a real mix of stock and liveries. When Brighton Mainline came to MSTS you had: Slam door units, 319s, Electrostars as new, loco-hauled Gatwick Express, 460s, Cross Country, 455s, 456s, 166s, freight that wasn't all 66s, and liveries including NSE, Virgin, Connex, Southern, Gatwick Express Intercity livery, Virgin XC, Intercity, special liveried 47s. Imagine that!
I think the big draw of the Riviera line is the seawall at Dawlish. It's not a bad route, but as you said there's not really a lot to do with it. I did like the Halloween scenario where you're placing the pumpkins, and the dispatcher thing as well. These little bits of variety are a welcome change.
If we can have same routes set different era mine would be Mildmay Line backdated to pre 2007 where it old Stratford and line went to North Woolwich and Sliverlink and have London to Brighton but in Connex era with slam door set with VEP and CIG
I would say the main reason for the lack of older ERA routes and traction ist the lack of reference material compared to current stock. Not that I'm complaining, I wouldn't mind ONLY modern routes coming out from now on.
We have too many routes where it the trains are too easy to drive like modern day emus for the most part make me fall asleep while driving them because they are easy and quiet, another thing is the terrible view from them where in cab you can’t see half the area outside but something like 86/87 or a good old class 31 keeps me on my toes and actually helps me enjoy the route more
There isn't a full solution exactly, but Diesel Legends style timetable packs are a potential compromise. It didn't sell too well at the time it launched but I wouldn't mind seeing more of its kind today, now that stock has been expanded and such. In particular I would love to see an 'Electric Legends' for the southern WCML routes, using the JT stock.
Perhaps but to make a convincing 80s timetable for the southern WCML I would say a 304 or 310 would be more of a necessity.
My point is 304 and 310 EMUs handled the bulk of regional services, like the 350s do today. The WCML would be very empty without them even back then, unless we want another case of Pacers and 1st gen DMUs everywhere.
Personally i would love to see more steam and br era diesels like the diesels legends pack but understand the time and effort required to make them. Maybe some 3rd parties could make a go of it?
Mainly 310's. The 304's were relatively rare south of Rugby due to traincrew traction knowledge, though they did show up occasionally.
I find myself curious as to if you would be interested in a hypothetical Electric Legends Vern, given your love of the era? I seem to recall comments about how the modern scenery was off putting in Diesel Legends originally, as it was for me at the time. I strangely find it less of an issue these days though.
Definitely. Not only the 310’s and 304’s but the 81”s to 85’s which were regular performers on the “Cobblers” during the period I commuted from Northampton to London - 1979 until 1984. Though I think the 84’s had largely gone by then.
The timetable is poor The lack of the class 117 in plain blue was the biggie for me. Blue/grey 101's are totally wrong for the area prior to around 1988. A blue one would have been better but still unrealistic.
I would be great we have valenta hst bad sadly non of route we got are all 3 just trains Preston routes are out of time as hst did not come to West Coast unit 1990s and other routes are to modern that why I love to have ECML set in GNER era and have Great Western Express have 3 different time one set in pre 2009 with old Reading before rebuilt and have moden day route to have elizabeth line
I think part of the problem is the insistence of having everything branded. My personal choice of era is early privatisation, 1995-2010, co-incidentally when I was growing up, but good luck finding the licensor of many TOCs at the time (I believe GNER is owned by a private individual, although they somehow got a Connex license many years ago, no idea if it was renewed); and of the rest, good luck convincing a large corporation to license defunct brands (First won't license FGW any more). It would be more possible if people could accept unbranded stock more.
