Airedale And Wharfdale Lines Disscusion

To add salt to the wound, I believe the DB 66 that is included will date back to GWE. I'm not the biggest Class 66 fan but I would still like to see a new varient even if it was a different operator like GBRf or Freightliner.

But (even though I don't want to), I do want to defend DTG's choice as the Class 66 is the new rat of the rail freight scene - they are everywhere. They are dirt common and are seen on most routes in the UK hauling freight. I just hope they've updated the sounds (which I doubt)

 

Has the LNER Azuma been optimised/updated for this release?

 

I think they're getting announcements, but that's it afaik

 

That's all that needs to be done I believe. Unless they'd like to implement the new sounds that the 805/802 have.

 

Does it still have the issue with the external PIS

 

Man why do dislike pendolinos so much.

 

Old timer here, Pendolinos got rid of our loco-hauled trains (aka "proper" trains) and Pendolino's and their Voyager sisters are naff, though compared to those Hitachi things it's making Pendolinos look great so there is that.

Ironically I don't mind them in the game but IRL nope, I'd torch the depot if I knew it'd do any good

 

Thanks for the reply, hopefully it’s been texture optimised also!

 

I just noted we not getting a Northern 170 ever for ai at Leeds would make it more busy to bad we don't more modern northern routes maybe like a Harrogate loop or Leeds to Hull

 

They're not gonna make a train for AI only, but who knows Rivet make one when there is a suitable route to run services on. I also like to see the Class 195, but who knows what the future brings for other Northern routes. I'm already happy to see this route.

 

Yeah this is the caveat of all Northern Trains content so far being electrics. Don’t get me wrong I think this route is an excellent choice, but with only a 158 coming later, there are huge gaps on all Northern routes at the moment.

Personally I’m not fussed about missing the 170, it would be extremely limited layer wise & something such as 150’s, 155’s, 156 & 195’s all offer much better variety. Whilst the 158 will plug gaps & likely be used as a diesel stand in for more than it realistically is, that’s going to get tiring pretty quick.

There are several routes that aren’t massive for Northern Diesels so hopefully we will see on within TSW7’s life, however the issue will be that we seldom see stock used retroactively, so things like Leeds & Glossop will likely never see things added later, ATS though seem like they might actually go back & add the suitable stock to MAC.

 

I also prefer loco-hauled trains but I've always had a soft spot for the 390s. Hitachi's IETs have nothing on the 390 especially as the Pendolinos can trace their roots back to the ill-fated APT-P project. I'm not going to judge as we all have our preferences - I don't find modern trains (build after 1997) all that interesting and yet I find the Pendos interesting.

 

I think they have. You only need to compare the route coverage of the two to see there's a world of difference.
I think the Cardiff Network is the worst UK DLC I own and I only got it for the Class 153.
Hopefully this West Yorkshire network goes down well and we see DTG attempting a similar network, C2C for example, soon.

 

Love the look of this route Airedale & Wharfedale does anyone how much it will cost as a route add-on ? & how much the BR class -333 will cost as a loco add-on?

 

I know people need to be paid for the work they do, but £48 seems a bit steep, if you want the 333 for extra immersion. I’m keeping a laser focus on build quality during the livestreams before parting with a single penny!

 

It's basically a bait and hook to get people to pre order the Deluxe Pack for "just" £10 more. I'm in the same boat as the Leeds route without the 333 is pretty pointless. However, I have no real interest in the German and USA routes this time round. There's also still the Rivet uncertainty hanging over the UK route and its likely quality. And if you go for the Standard pack at £40 pre order price, then you don't get the 333. (And still buying two routes I don't really want).

Which is why, unless I'm really convinced tomorrow I'm 95% certain I will settle for the free update and wait until I can get Leeds and the 333 for at least 60% off. Or just keep the money for the third party stuff coming out over the next few months.

 

I'm not really interested in the other two routes but will buy this one if it is up to the standard of the Riviera Line. At least this way, I will have the time between the early access and full release date to gauge other peoples' opinions before buying (harsh I know but I have been the person buying on day one in the past). Given that they are having a separate console live stream, I am hopeful. I doubt if they would have this if it was looking like being a pile of the brown stuff.

 

I think this year I'll just go for the free upgrade. I've stopped buying non-UK routes as I don't play them enough to make them worthwhile and out of all the TSW6 era releases, apart from Riviera Line I've barely scratched the surface so I have a lot of gameplay there.

Looking forward to the Class 70, Carlisle - Whitehaven and the Sheerness Branch though. I'll probably get the UK launch route when it gets bundled up with the Deluxe Loco in a sale pack down the road.

 

Put it this way, as with Cardiff, if this route had come out as a normal mid term DLC I wouldn't have been in any rush to buy it and certainly not at full price. It's also almost certain if away from the Direct and change up to TSW7, we would probably have got both new trains included for the £32.95.

 

Not a chance. It would have been the same as it is now (one new train included and a loco DLC), except it probably wouldn’t have been made as a mid-term route as it’s too big. DTG don’t make routes with two completely new trains included very often. It only happens when it’s a new country or a new type of content, like the first steam route as an example, or back in the very early days when everything was the first route of its kind. The best you ever get outside of that is a new train and a reworked old train. I challenge anyone to name the last DTG modern UK route that had more than one completely new train included. I’ll give you a clue, it was a very long time ago.

Spoiler: The challenge answer

It was actually West Somerset Railway. That and GWE are the only DTG made modern UK routes that came with more than one completely new train included. WSR is a modern day heritage railway so it counts. For a modern UK route with modern trains, GWE is the only one that came with more than one completely new train. Check the wiki if you don’t believe me. All other routes had only one new train and some also had reworked or reused trains.

It’s not just their UK routes, it also applies to their German and US content, and includes core routes as well. It’s extremely rare.

 

Fair point, though of course the 150 with Cardiff was quite heavily reworked albeit still imperfect. The point being though, buying the Leeds route and the additional DLC if you're not interested in the other two routes is going to be relatively expensive.

 

Yeah no chance we’d have got 2 completely new units in a route DLC for £33. Lately we’re lucky to see even one new unit & not just a new subclass. I think the last time we saw that was with the Dutch route & even that was the first time we’d had 2 new units in one DLC, for years.

The most refreshing thing about TSW7 in fact, is there is a fair bit of new rolling stock.

 

DTG have hit a sweet spot in terms of marketing the annual repackage. It works too. Know how I know? Because they keep going back to it.
It's clearly unpopular with the less than 1% of TSW players who post in here, but those complaints about the repackaging model count for nothing on their sales spreadsheets. And as the leader of a business, I wouldn't care about that 1% either. They don't pay my wages.

Such is life. My football club releases 3 new kits per season and 3 new training kits per season, a minority of fans on forums complain but it also works because....sales figures.

We live in a consumerism world, just be thankful this isn't a subscription only model that ends up costing twice as much as it does now because that's what happens to subscription models. Don't buy what you don't want is the only advice I can offer in this bleak consumerist hellscape.

 

I don’t work for dtg , but the bundles seem relatively good value for what you get, even if you don’t like the stuff that much. You probably would have to wait a while for a sale on these DLC’s and even then your spend might not be too far off the spend on one of the bundles!

I’m quite interested in the German route but want the ICE 4 with it . US route is of mild interest and the UK one too but slightly more interest! So I might just get the deluxe edition as I want busier timetables with the routes which the deluxe locos should give.

 

It is the worst position to be in, just wanting one country’s route and loco. I’m glad that I’m quite interested in two of the three routes in TSW7 so I’ll most likely get the deluxe edition as usual. The US route I could definitely leave but it works out as a good value package for the two routes I do want. If I did want just one of the routes, I’d get the free starter pack and wait for a sale in the future for the actual content, like I do with most other DLC. Other than JT’s content, I’m not in a rush to get anything these days.

 

Looks like Tyler from Rivet is on tomorrow’s stream…

 

Aye definitely

 

Confirms Rivet involvement then. We know he is a timetable guru, but what state have his colleagues made the route itself in?

 

They worked on Riviera last year and most people thought it was great. I'm expecting it will be the same this time.

 

I would think the timetable on this one was nightmare to build. Four ends to the route, AI aplenty at the Leeds end, those faffy freight movements where you have to switch ends and run around the wagons then make a cup of tea and a pot noodle before setting off.

I'm glad it wasn't my job, it sounds like it needed a timetable guru and if he wants to be on the stream and soak up some credit, fair play to him.

 

Well if it's as good as Riviera I'll be happy.

It's not 2023 anymore.

 

From the previews of the other routes, I think Rivet looks like they may have produced the best of the 3...

Although I'll be watching closely todays preview to see if it does hold up. But with how Riveria Line & Stamford Lines turned out, I'm fairly confident in Rivets abilities these days.

Rivet put me in mind of MG Rover... With the exception of the SD1 & Rover 800 series, Rovers products in the 80s/90s were pretty abysmal and shell of their former self. But then the BMW takeover happened and we got the smashing and most beautiful Rover 75 & MG ZS models at the tale end of their existence. Rivet remind me of MG Rover, in the sense that yes there content of the past leaves a lot of question marks... But they have come far since then and Riveria and the Wharfdale and Airedale line might just be their equivalent of the 'Rover 75'.

 

Rivets main problem is oversight and with them as a 2nd party I'm sure DTG has more oversight than when they were a 3rd party.

Hence the improvement the last year or so.

 

Agree with this.


Also, imo, they had pretty terrible communication with the playerbase. The guy (I'm forgetting his name atm) who used to post on the forums a bit always came across to me as very dismissive of players' concerns.

Being more of a 2nd-party dev now, they're not really required to do that "PR stuff", and can just concentrate on dev work.

The new timetable guru has also been a positive development, as that was also a weak part of their portfolio.

 

Either that, or Rivet are still the MGF with the dodgy hydragas suspension and ropey headgasket.

Let’s see if they’ve morphed into the TF…

 

Having recently owned a Montego and three Maestros we will have to disagree there. They were underrated and were still in the top 20 used car sales in 1991 after they had effectively been replaced, Indeed Rover kept them in production longer than intended.

BMW were the death knell for Rover. If they had stayed in collaboration with Honda I suspect they would still be making cars at Longbridge.

Anyway this obsession with Rivet seems quite out of date now.

 

Thank-you

 

I’m no longer at the point of being worried about Rivet developing new things as a second party. WCMLS was poor on release, but Riviera was a significant improvement. The only other problem I have with them is the wishy washy attitude when it comes to the 170 packs - we’ve been told they will be updated & brought into line with each other, but we’re still waiting. There were also some problems with ECW remaster & their 377.

Other than that though, their 170 timetables have been great & Riviera really was a significant leap in gameplay & route quality for DTG, so I’m not going to naysay them over the upcoming route until I’ve laid eyes on it.

That said the 2 previews we’ve had so far, have displayed TSW7 is releasing too early, but as I’m only really interested in the UK part this year, I’m hoping this will be the route where time has been largely spent. Really looking forward to the 331 too & I really hope substitutions have been set up for 323’s on the other Northern routes.

 

Let’s just hope they keep it tidy with light baking in tunnels and no trees or trackside foliage flying through the cab. I’ve never quite understood why this isn’t found and fixed during testing.

I’m cautiously optimistic about the stream and maybe it’ll encourage me preorder.

 

I assume an article will be released today prior to the stream with a bit more detail than we already have

 

Totally disagree -
1989 Rover Mini - most fun car I've ever had. Never broke down.
1991 Rover 213S - Honda engined automatic. Did 80k miles, only ever needed a new exhaust pipe and new tyres.
1994 Rover 416 SLi - Honda engine again, the most refined car I've ever owned, drove it around France and Spain, no problems at all.
1997 Rover 416 SLI - Newer shape. Got me around France, Ireland and Scotland, no problems.
4 cars, 17 years and close to 200k miles of fault-free driving.

First car that left me in the hard shoulder waiting for Green Flag? Renault Megane in 2007. First car to spend over 3 months in a workshop while the mechanics tried to work out the problem and then find the parts? My current new shape Vauxhall Corsa.

 

The problem is, yes the Austin/Rover Metro, and Maestro were fairly successful when released. But there was no real innovation at Austin Rover to progress their products or quality, and those particular models lasted mostly unchanged for their entire life and Austin Rover kept the same design for over a decade. If it wasn't for Hondas collaboration, their products would have been even worse. The Maestro lasted up until 94/95 fairly unchanged and were still produced up until L/M Reg if I remember correctly, and the Metro evolved mostly unchanged apart from a few exterior changes into the Rover 100 which lasted until the late 1990s using the same basic design. My own experience with family members Rover/Austin cars, were that the engines were fairly solid, but the build quality was pretty shocking and did not age well at all. But bare in mind, in the same time period Ford released several completely new marks of Fiesta, ans Vauxhall produced several new marks of Cavalier. Rover really lacked innovation and certainly build quality on some of their products compared to competitors. The Series 2 Rover SD1 & the Rover 800 series are the exception for me and were genuinely good cars particularly with Hondas engines in the 800 series. But the company as a whole lacked innovation. Even their commercial arm produced the Freight Sherpa and barely changed it's design through our it's life (with the exception to some light bodywork changes through the years) and the Sherpa went onto become the LDV 200 a design that lasted up until 2005, but was a notorious poor quality rust bucket in terms of build quality. It's only saving grace was it's engine yet again...

To go from producing something like the famous and tasty P5B/P6/Series 2 SD1 as successors of each other in a normal time period, to then holding onto the same designs with their later products and with the poor structural build quality for 12 years just wasn't a good look (to me atleast). The 200/400 models were okay, but they weren't anything special, they had the solid engine, but again, my own experience from my family cars was that the build quality was pretty shoddy when it comes to deteriorating.

BMW didn't really want competition for its 3 Series, but the Rover 75/MG ZS were really good motors and brought quality back to Rovers products before They unfortunately went under... Unfortunately the same couldn't be said for the badge engineered 'City Rover' though. Obviously these are just my personal opinions and I'm not saying anyone is right or wrong, and I respect everyone else's experiences and opinions.


But without derailing the thread anymore with my geeky car chat and anecdotes, and back to where I was using the Rover 75 comparison... I really think if everything goes well with the Airedale & Wharfdale lines, this could be Rivets 'Rover 75' moment and bringing quality back to their products. Riveria Line really holds up, as does Stamford Line, so they clearly have had a change in direction and their products recently have really held upto DTGs original quality as far as I'm concerned. They are finding it hard to shake off their label, but I think in time, if Rivet continue to produce content like Riveria etc... They will be able to salvage their image and prove they are a completely competent developers.

 

I may have myself indulged in an MG Rover analogy, but this debate is getting out of hand! Back to A&W please!

 

Article is now live.

 

Just had a listen to the Class 333, and it sounds really good in the snippet we can hear as do the PIS boards. Never been on a Class 331 so someone will have to enlighten me on their opinions of the sounds that can be heard in the article.

 

I've never been on either so they could use the film soundtrack to Amelie and I'd only be slightly suspicious, but very relaxed.

 

That 333 just doesn’t sit right with me. The cab isn’t ‘fishbowl’ enough, unless it’s just camera perspectives. Build quality looks fairly inoffensive from what I’ve seen, but I’d expect station clutter, street furniture etc and a few Easter eggs to part with nearly £50.

 

Thank you that someone else has noticed, I put a comparison shot on page 2, and I see what you mean about the front

 

That unfortunately is the hallmark of a Rivet route. No mileposts (or part miles), no cable trunking, sections of scrap rail. It remains to be seen what shortcuts might have been taken with the station buildings, as a keynote release all the stations need to be fully realised with frontage and concourse. Another Cardiff Central not acceptable. Well I guess we will start to find out in just over two hours. Watch out for the Roblox buildings, too.