Airedale And Wharfdale Lines Disscusion

It still baffles me why they don't use a realistic set of UK speed signs like Firefly/ATS. Should be a simple thing really, makes a route more realistic looking. But looking forward to the route anyway.

 

So, at first glance, it actually looks good – can we please stop this? ‘Rivet this’, ‘Rivet that’. Yes, back in the TSW 2 days with Lucerne Sursee… It really is bad, especially as I cycle past there every day, but since the TSW 4 days I’d say Rivet has improved a lot. I thought ‘Riviera’ in particular was beautiful. Yes, perhaps not quite as good as TSG or JT, but still very lovely. I don’t know, do you work for the railways? If so, it’s just that when you know something very well, you tend to look at it more closely (Lucerne–Sursee) but in my case, I’d just wait and see for now.

 

Those playable service numbers don't particularly encourage me: 260 playable services and 36 AI services without the 333, and 360 playable and 84 AI services with it. Considerably more services on Aire and Wharfe are worked by 333s in real life, far more than 100 per day. There seems to be a lot of AI services considering this is supposed to be a complete network. Hopefully I'm wrong and the stream later clarifies the situation.

If they spew out a naff prototypical timetable with 331s over-represented just to accommodate the questionable decision to flog the 333 as a deluxe train, I won't be investing in this.

 

Bit disappointed with the announced layers at leeds. No voyager or 800s running through leeds. Hopefully the ai stock adds a bit if realism.

 

I mean 100 services seems fine, the 331’s today are running what, say a third of all services? Especially now 333’s are operating to Doncaster also.

I assume the 333 will substitute into the 331 timetable too.

There is only something in the order of 150-200 services over the working day, on the triangle services.

Most of the other traffic will be depot shunts & out beyond Skipton. Plenty of AI opportunities at Leeds too, so seems about right to me. Don’t get me wrong, there should absolutely be more 333’s than 331’s (on the triangle runs) so if it’s the other way around I’ll certainly add my complaints about that to the list.

I do share the concerns over the wording of the layering in one of the other articles, I do hope they aren’t leaving stuff out despite the available rolling stock being in TSW - there is already enough missing we won’t see due to not having correct trains & ToC’s.

 

I'll judge it based on the stream, not some carefully curated static screenshots and a 2 minute "showcase" video clip. I sincerely hope Rivet have nailed it and it's more Riviera level than Cardiff or West Cornwall. But when it comes to that developer I'm afraid we have been bitten too many times not to take a pragmatic and level headed look at it. Put it this way, tonight's stream is the last chance to convince me to buy at least the Standard version rather than take the free update.

 

Yeah... Can you tell me whats so special about the 333? Cause I'm between the free starter pack and the deluxe version, cause if I buy TSW 7 then I want the ICE 4 which comes in the deluxe version.

 

I personally am very careful around Rivet. Riviera was good and Tyler makes a very good timetable which proves they can do it when they put their minds to it. I found the 171 pack for ECW a little underwhelming (apart from the timetable which is fantastic).

Personally my experiences (like a few others) with rivet are very mixed and I just personally wish they'd put that little bit more time and care into their content. Hopefully we'll see a good improvement in this preview!

 

The 333 is a unique looking unit that’s spent most its life confined to a local, small commuter circuit, so it’s pretty rare to see in person, unless you specifically go to Leeds to get on one, or commute on its route. Recently though it is finding its way to more cities as Northern are expanding its diagrams.

It does share its looks with another UK train (332) but that’s now out of service.

You couldn’t have the Airedale & Wharfedale network set in the 21st Century, without the 333. Aside from it being the main rolling stock there (which is why it’s abit naff that DTG locked it into a separate pack), it’s just too unique among the UK’s stock fleet to avoid. You couldn’t realistically swap this out for another unit as it’s practically a mobile landmark of the area it serves.

 

Would be great to use the 333 on Great Western Express for Heathrow Express for AI

 

It would have been far better to have made the 333 the supplied EMU and the 331 the Deluxe additional item. I suppose if you buy Standard can always add the 333 when it drops to £7.50 in a sale next year.

 

Lack of XC layers is very poor, considering Leeds already too quiet with nothing to represent TPE services. I’m falling out of love with this release already.

 

Regarding the timetable, I've just done some research using RealTimeTrains fleet search (https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/search/fleetsearch). I think you need a subscription for this.
Here's a count of today's services for the 331 and 333:
331:
Skipton to Leeds 39
Leeds to Skipton 38
Leeds to Bradford Forster Square 7
Bradford Forster Square to Leeds 7
Leeds to Ilkley 23
Ilkley to Leeds 24
Bradford Forster Square to Ilkley 9
Ilkley to Bradford Forster Square 8
Skipton to Bradford Forster Square 6
Bradford Forster Square to Skipton 6
Total: 167

333:
Skipton to Leeds 10
Leeds to Skipton 11
Leeds to Bradford Forster Square 19
Bradford Forster Square to Leeds 20
Leeds to Ilkley 21
Ilkley to Leeds 21
Bradford Forster Square to Ilkley 19
Ilkley to Bradford Forster Square 18
Skipton to Bradford Forster Square 21
Bradford Forster Square to Skipton 20
Total:180

There are also a few depot services and some Bradford to Shipley services missing from my list, but not many. There are only about 20 800/801 services I could find and I doubt there will be that many freight services.
In other words, while I suspect there are some 333 services missing, I also think we are probably getting more 331 services than in reality. We'll find out in 15 minutes anyway.

 

The Crosscountry Voyager isn't even layered in? I hope the timetable doesn't turn out to be another Rivet Special™ !!!

 

I think the article only lists driveable layers, so may not rule out having the Voyager as AI

 

Keighley And Worth Valley? Finished it mate.

Heh heh. I went and travelled the route last weekend. Its bloody lovely, especially the the Keighley and Worth Valley heritage station.


PS If the round block of flats is missing the live size cut out of Mr Bean (thats been there 20 years) then I'm asking for a refund! :P

 

Yup, been a theme with all 3 launch routes so far, pretty silly they haven’t been listing the routes in full detail - certainly wouldn’t be interested in them solely from those articles.

In any case the article for this route lists a few extra things in a paragraph, such as railtours, RHTT & AI etc, which wouldn’t be possible from the actual stock listed - clearly not a complete list.

 

Stream late yet again.
The respect shown to customers is awesome.
Ever heard that lateness is a discourtesy to others?

 

Maybe it is a technical issue or maybe they are deliberately trying to annoy you!

 

Why would they be DTG in every other way but have their punctuality under control?

 

That’s if the game doesn’t crash or bug out during the 4 1/2 session.

 

DTG obviously thinks 19:00 BST is 19:05.

 

Oh no. RIVET

 

Phew, tough crowd tonight.

This is the sort of UK electric network I've wanted for years. Without doubt the most exciting release since BML for me.
I know the area quite well but have usually had a car so the only station I've traveled to is Leeds. So I'm not going to be picking holes in anything other than really obvious mistakes.

 

Be sure to remind him he has WCL on his CV.

 

Not watching the stream live as we are currently watching Stranger Things, but the suspicion is confirmed then. Watch closely folks, need to know if this is Riviera or Cardiff standard. Look for missing (if any) mile posts, Roblox buildings and stations with no frontage.

 

About to have dinner so I'll come back and see what all you rivet counters have to say about the route in half an hour.

 

Some people are obsessed

 

I feel an opportunity was missed to include the KWVR. I would have bought the route just for that.

 

We are an hour in and there is still only one rivet person on the stream, for anyone keeping score.

 

No-one's spotted an electrical cabinet in the wrong place yet then.

 

Looks nice so far, having just gotten to Skipton. Certainly looking forward to it. The 333 is by far the dominant unit too, so as expected nothing to worry about there.

Some comments though.

• No SDO - pretty sure this works in TSW now but isn’t implemented here despite it being frequently used.
• Trains stopping halfway out of platforms with red signals - I know this has historically been an iffy mechanic, but on a route where most services are buffer to buffer, I’d expect this to be better implemented.
• Not convinced by the reality of the 331 audio, it’s not terrible but it sounds like it was ripped from the US M7’s & isn’t original audio.
• GSMR still disappearing halfway through your run - please DTG fix this, it’s small but irritating.
• Live Weather - apparently avoided due to poor weather, but Leeds has been sunny & slightly cloudy this afternoon into PM, so it’s not working correctly & I’m wondering if DTG knows this or not.

Overall I’m looking forward to the route, some really nice atmospheric areas where the line encloses in vegetation, as well as opens out towards Skipton - definitely great to get some decent length & speed Northern services in game (especially away from the 323), but definitely some polish to be had & I’m already concerned with live weather being a poor implementation like dynamic was.

 

The stream has allayed most of my fears; it's definitely impressed me far. The timetable appears to be accurate with the 331s and 333s on correct services and, as I speculated, the 4 car 331 deputises for those who do not own the 333.

SDO not working and the 331 audio being quite a way off are my only two (minor) gripes but the 333 sounds fairly realistic. Also - and this is extremely pedantic - the 331/0 numbers should only be 331001-012 as those are the ones allocated to Neville Hill; the rest are based at Allerton and don't get over to Leeds.

 

Haven’t see the stream so far. What’s Leeds looking like? Much in the way of AI traffic?

 

It was shown at around 8:30am in game, the Northern Electrics were well represented but due to absence of TPE & Northern Diesels it is on the quiet side of things, but certainly not deserted.

Voyagers are there though so concerns above should be alleviated.

Hopefully when the 158 arrives it will help, I think the issue really is that all your Northern electrics tend to be on either side of the station, with diesels usually in the middle.

 

Better microphones in a mobile phone made to smuggle into prisons.

 

No signal cable trunking/trackside troughing that I can tell. Or much trackside clutter etc.

It's a small thing which does make a difference.

 

Looks really nice and very well done. Definitely looking like a purchase.

I do think it’s a shame they are using the pylons from many years ago that look very little like pylons.
JTs routes and the Riveria line had better examples.

 

Quiet passenger wise but it’s been that way for the last few routes.

 

Very impressed with the route so far. Rivet really are setting new benchmarks of their own work here... Superb work from what I can see. You get a real feeling of this being a self contained network route. Also the timetable is very padded out with the AI available, and Tyler mentioned it was the 2025 WTT.

As someone else has mentioned in previous comments, the only nit picking I noticed too, was the Class 331 sounding quite familiar to the M7 from the Stamford line. The Class 333 though sounds superb, proper clunky unit like the 465/9 and it impressed even more then I expected it too!

Rivet have done a superb here from what I've seen on the stream. This looks like it will be another successful feather in their cap, and I'm genuinely happy to see they are just continuing to do superb work.

Unless I missed it, did anyone hear if the updated 801 will replace the base model on ECML P-D? Would make sense to do so if possible/in future.

All in all though I did get a real sense of DTG/Rivet listening to the customer base and it feels like a genuine amount of work and effort has gone into this route. I won't unfortunately get the Deluxe edition for early access, and not because it's not worth it, but unfortunately I have a daughter and I just can't justify the price when I have other things I have a priority for. But I will be buying the route plus the Class 333 on general release on the 15th.

One thing I will say though is I'll be watching tomorrows console stream just to have a realistic expectation for Gen9.

 

I'll still be waiting for reviews so we can really see what the route is offering and not a we'll only show you what we want to show you stream

 

So looks as if route is okay, 331 not so hot (sound wise anyway) but to get the star of the show the 333, you are either going to have to buy Deluxe, or but Standard then the 333 as additional DLC.

 

Matt is doing his best to hide it, but it seems that during the morning rush hour, the trains from the starting stations in Leeds and Bradford Forster Square departed… empty. With no passengers on board. So, no changes on that front.

At Bradford Forster Square, while looking for a cat, Matt inadvertently captured a crowd of people getting off a train bound for Ilkley. All the passengers on the train to Ilkley disembarked and walked away. They probably chose Uber over Northern’s services.

Also Leeds was completely empty, and during the morning rush hour, no trains arrived or departed except for one - the single empty train to Skipton driven by Matt. No trains, no passengers waiting on the platforms - in TSW7, Leeds is a ghost town.

But who cares about the passengers if there are cats hiding in the stations. Isn’t that exciting?

I’m glad that, for the seventh time, the vast majority of players got what satisfies them, what they so fervently defend, and what they passionately excuse. Congratulations, guys! Have fun!

Here are some things that made a good impression on me:
The scenery looks really very nice.
When the windows are open, you can hear the wind - not just the sounds from outside.

 

Not managed to watch a lot of the stream but the very first service Matt did with the 331, I thought the 331 sounded pretty good on departure up to about 20MPH. I was at Preston station yesterday with 331’s everywhere and it sounded pretty spot on I gotta say.

After 20mph or so when the motor whine changed, I did notice like a reverb sound of some sort building pitch as the speed increased which to me sounded a bit Artificial but I’ve never been on a 331, only heard them so can judge only on departure sounds.

I work on 195’s which are near identical to 331’s so I can say the cabs are pretty much spot on! The screens are modeled well, the buttons all look good and the interiors are pretty spot on, even in the saloons!

looking forward to this, going to catch up on the stream after work.

 

Really nice route with a great mix of city and countryside. Both locos look excellent and offer something different to drive. I’ve never experienced them in real life, so can’t comment on realism or sounds, but they certainly look enjoyable. The Azuma has also been vastly improved, which is a real bonus.

For console players, Matt is streaming all three new routes tomorrow on an Xbox Series X.

 

Thats a limitation of the game. There is a maximum amount of passengers that the game can be loaded so on larger scale routes you will see less passengers.

And im very pleased by this route. Its looks supurb and specially the station decoration is stunning.

 

Looked good to me, nicely modelled scenery and stations with a nice variety of urban and countryside, particularly around Skipton.

I like the fact that both trains are quite different despite being one handled EMUs. The 331 certainly shifts! I don't know if the sounds are right or wrong as I've never been near one in real life. Are people guessing that the sounds have come from somewhere else and DTG seemed to have recorded them at Neville Hill?

The route does look a bit too clean and yes there is a lack of clutter on the line side but many routes are like that.

I think it will come alive more when the 158 is out. I'm glad the class 70 will feature.

Overall I like it and feel it offers variety. Rivet seemed to have done a good job which will annoy some of the obsessives.

 

Whoa stop a horse, are all passengers visible or not, within the tile of the player or not, being rendered?
WHOA stop a horse again, are there passengers invisible to the player, outside of the players tile being rendered?

 

That’s certainly not true. The limitation is purely self imposed for performance reasons. You can go in the ini file and increase passenger density to laughable amounts if you want. In 2021 DTG even experimented with a feature they called "rush hour passengers" where during peak times the passenger density at stations would be true to real life. It’s my understanding they abandoned that feature shortly afterwards for performance reasons.

 

honestly, I was not expecting DTG to make something of this quality.

DTG has shocked me tonight. Well played.

compared to the last 2 core UK routes, this one is EASILY the best, for the first time in a while, it actually feels like DTG have put genuine effort into a route, instead of just getting a quick buck, i would even go as far to say, the quality here is not that far off Birmingham Crewe in my eyes.

Never thought id see the day DTG makes third party levels of detail.