Airedale And Wharfdale Lines Disscusion

I dont know how you understand the description "limitation" but its set up as a limitation and not an option via the menu so infact its a limitation its limit by game setup

 

I'm very impressed with the scenery from what I saw of the stream. These are very pretty routes once you leave the urban sprawl behind and they seem to have captured it well. Positive to see some more adventurous scenarios as that's been a stagnant part of the game for a while, and I rather liked the look of the new goods mode even as an almost entirely passenger player.

It's great to be genuinely looking forward to a TSW release again!

 

Watched a fair bit of the stream . Scenery looks very nice, from what I saw , similar quality to Riviera is my first impression . Random rail workers next to the track which will be in different positions on each service is a nice touch . 333 looked great and the 331 with nice sounds . Announcements seemed good , real LNER announcements are nice as well . I thought initially Leeds looked quiet passenger wise although when they showed Leeds later in the game it looked busier . This might be a TSW quirk , where when you first spawn into a station it can take some time for lots of passengers to appear.

Foliage looked better / different , but Tyler later confirmed it’s the same TSW trees but the enhanced lighting is doing a very good job at making the foliage look more realistic .

Overall looks very good , from what I saw!

 

The rain looked much better also but I’m not sure if that’s just genuine improvements or if it just appeared different because it was a new loco.

 

Jetwash told them how he did rain in Medway Valley so they can have the same effect.

 

Haven’t had a chance to watch yet, but some of the previous is reassuring.

Couple of quick questions from me, if those who watched the stream can comment…

Was the night lighting demonstrated, particularly in the built up conurbation areas?

Did my question about fixing the chained run save game get answered?

Certainly food for thought in my decision process over the next two or three days.

 

I feel asleep towards the end but no night time run i think and I dont recall anything about save slots being mentioned.

 

Lack of action at Leeds still leaves lingering doubts for me…hope the Northern 158 follows quickly.
I think we were spoiled by AABS with Birmingham New Street feeling very alive. WCMLS build quality isn’t brilliant, but a full Euston makes up for it.

 

Had a quick curated watch of the stream and TBH still on the fence.

Route looks okay and Rivet have improved but does come across as a bit sterile. No Medway Valley or Liberec Czech route.

It’s definitely a complex timetable but as with all these types of routes it repeats on an hourly basis.

Verdict out on the trains. The 331 traction sounds definitely have a bit of 385 to my ears and the thing seems to accelerate like a rocket. I know it’s a modern EMU but did someone actually go out and do some sort of timing exercise or manage to get a cab ride to judge this properly? Or was it entirely theoretical physics values dumped into Simugraph and go with whatever comes out the other end? 333 again, not exactly going to set the world alight with the traction sounds, but that said I travelled a few times on the similar HEX 332’s and were fairly quiet so in this case art probably correctly imitating life.

So still not sure this is worth blowing £40 or £58 of my Steam credit or even just £33 for the Leeds route on its own. Might wait and see what actual players have to say about this route (and the others) as you can still take the discount up to the end of early access.

 

Hmm, something strange is going on here. The official Dovetail Games website states that Airedale & Wharfedale is 54 miles in total
https://live.dovetailgames.com/news/discover-airedale

But when it was streamed last night the product description said the total length was 60 kilometers (37 miles)?


I'd be curious to know which one it is because 37 miles seems kind of short.

 

Isn’t Leeds to Skipton around 25 miles. So you need to add to that, Bradford to Shipley, Shipley to Ilkley and the Rylstone branch if anyone wants to do the math. Plus the run out to Neville Hill at the Leeds end.

 

That 54 miles might include yards, branch lines and other things. But actual end to end is 37 miles . I could be wrong tho.

 

But you've also got the Leeds & Bradford to Ilkley bit on top of that...which, incidentally, wasn't shown on the stream. I don't know the exact distance but if you guesstimate Bradford > Ilkley (via Guiseley) is 10 miles and Leeds > Ilkley (via Kirkstall Forge) is another 10 miles then that takes it way over 37 miles

 

Overall I thought it looked very impressive but I have a few concerns/things I don't like.

• Whilst improvements to the 801 based on the 802 are nice and appreciated, the GWR 802 is completely undrivable (for me anyway) as the thing gives me silent AWS alarms, which I don't understand as I never see anyone else complain about it, and the GBR 802 is a harbinger of blurry textures...
• The logic of the 158 being set up to operate class 170 services (as AI) but not 150 or 195 is just odd to me. Something to do with the 158 and 170 running similar diagrams but then I've definitely seen 158s (and even 150s for that matter) on Lincoln and Nottingham diagrams, plus I've seen clips of 158s running York to Blackpool North services (all of which are normally 195s), plus where does that leave Sheffield bound AI?
• East Midlands Trains HST is odd to me considering EMT doesn't exist anymore, East Midlands (Railway) don't serve Leeds anymore to my knowledge, and even if they did, they don't use HSTs no more (at least I can turn if off I suppose)
• I pre ordered deluxe so this doesn't entirely apply to me, but the 333 has to be the worst value add on in the entire game, since it mostly just replaces the 4-car 331 on services. I understand why they did it that way, but it makes the 333 kind of pointless

 

Did Rivet build this route and trains? The guy from Rivet was responsible for the timetable only from what I could gather.

I really liked how quickly the 331 accelerated. That’s going to be a lot of fun to drive. The route looked very nice and the fact there are so many different ways to go, should keep the route very fresh.

One thing that still really annoys me though is the sound. The horn on the 331 seemed significantly quieter (normal not reduced horn) compared to the 333 horn. Train horns should be loud and they should reverb and echo, but that never seems to be the case in TSW.

 

This is it, Neville hill to the quarry is around 37 miles. The bradford branch around 3, and the lines up to Ilkley make it the full 54 miles

 

Then why did last night's stream say the entire 18 station network was 60km (37 miles) in total?
<<at 16 mins

 

Idk probably a mistake. You can go on Google maps yourself to measure it out.

 

I thought the horn was spot on, it certainly sounds like a 195 horn as they share the same horns. Didn’t seem quiet to me on the stream but I might go back and have another look but I was happy with the sound itself, volume aside! The amount of horns I hear every night oh boy, and Cummins engines!

 

Didn't they make the same mistake with the Miami route? When they said it was 50km instead of 50 miles.

OldVern Matt will be doing the console stream tonight and another less formal stream on Thursday if you want to see night lighting. I also think the ambassadors can start streaming from today. There was no mention of the save game unfortunately.

My thoughts:

• The timetable is much busier than I thought it would be. 555 playable services according to the screen (although some I think are duplicated between the 333 and 331/1) and 220 of those are for the 333, so I think the figure of 360 from the article is just for the 331 and 333.
• Neutral sections work
• Scenery looks good, but I've only ever been to Leeds, so I don't know about the rest of the line.
• The passenger system still needs work, Leeds does look empty
• The dynamic weather transitions looked a lot better
• There were multiple TSRs on the first run to Skipton, one at 25 and one at 10. However, on the second run with the 801 the TSRs were still there, the first was at 35 this time and the second was still at 10. I think they were in the same place as well, so perhaps still more work to do there.

 

Haha, that probably explains quite a lot then.
Oh well, at least Matt can have a word with the video editing team....that's providing he can find a spare minute between visiting the plethora of other teams he says he needs to have a word with regarding the USA and Germany routes

 

This route making me want more modern northern routes if do get more what ones you like to have

Like Leeds to Hull


Leeds to Sheffield


Or the Calder Valley lines

What do you think we should have next northern route

 

All seems good... Just one thing that's really annoying me, the traction motors on the 331 sound nothing like the real thing! I really thought I'd be impressed by it with them recording at Neville hill depot but they sound really artificial . I really hope that gets sorted!

 

I would love to see Just Trains do a 1986 Calder Valley Line, linking up Preston to Leeds.

 

Just watching the stream now, did they ever pass a 331 as AI? All I've seen are 333s and one 801 just out of Bradford Forster Square...

I like what I see in general though.

 

Some more hot takes from watching the Class 801 ECS run…

Seemed quite jerky and stuttery for much of the trip.

New Azuma sounds are nice and sound as if they have been buffed, even from the mentioned Class 802 source. However scandalous that there are no plans to backport these to the ECML version.

The ECS run had no arrival time shown at Skipton.

Definitely mileposts visible but couldn’t be pedantic and see if every 1/4, 1/2 and 3/4 one is there.

The announcements are good, though the presenters couldn’t seem to stop themselves talking over some of them! Need a big red “On Air” illuminated sign above the PC of all those on stream, when silence is called for.

Q&A seemed very heavily curated, didn’t really address the point as to the LAMPOIL for this being the keynote route,whether it was originally the intended Spring release but pushed back and why not continue towards the Settle & Carlisle.

As noted, no mention of whether the Save game chained run (or more save slots) has been addressed. Sorry for ping but DTG Matt and DTG Harry if you are marketing a network route with the benefit of keeping going on a full driver’s diagram, then not losing the objective and timetable data when you load into a saved run on a next service is essential. As is more than one slot, so you can protect this game and come back to it after doing something else in the meantime which might also need to be saved. Same caveat applies to Freight Hauler.

 

I've been on 331s several times and they absolutely do go like rockets IRL

I had a run from Liverpool to Blackpool on on one last month which enabled me to see how they accelerate up to 100mph from a standing start leaving Wigan. I'm confident they could outdrag an 800 up to that speed.

 

Appreciate the information - electric rocket, yay!

 

Yeah pretty sure the 331’s are one of the fastest accelerating units in the UK, certainly a good bit faster than the 333.

 

Got to be done then. OldVern has folded and funds departed my Steam Wallet. And as the route is diminished without the 333, (or the 412 on the German route, despite the cab silence) coaxed an extra £18 out of the missus.

 

Leeds to Sheffield via Castleford is my local line to work so that’ll always be on my list but I think Leeds to York via Harrogate is the top of my list.
It’s around the right length at 39 miles, with some fantastic landmarks like Knaresbourgh and Crimple viaduct’s and the Bramhope tunnel, plus the single line sections between Knaresbourgh and Cattal then Hammerton to Poppleton. The biggest problem is I can’t see DTG going through the effort of making York station for a branch line, it’ll probably only happen if York appears in an ECML route.

 

Quite impressed with the route, really like that they've incorporated different ballast shades at last, the textures seem to blend nicely (also with the lifted tracks next to the main track). Great to hear about the random track workers as well, they did this years ago with a US route and finally they've returned. Great to have a bit of randomisation. Still not convinced with the foliage though, doesn't really feel UK like to me, could do with a foliage refresh for UK stuff.

 

The Railtour layers look quite interesting.

More a core thing but I noticed with the TSR’s these still seem to be appearing on the opposite line at the same location where this wouldn’t necessarily be the case. And 10 MPH on a main line is very rare if almost unheard of. Whatever the reason, staff would be going to site to get that sorted as quickly as possible or at least raised to the more standard 20.

 

Just catching up on the stream and honestly it looks superb. Had already pre ordered deluxe but that looks secure now unless the console streams tomorrow throw up anything of concern.

 

Yes this was basically the confirmation I was waiting for. The US route is pretty much the weakest link due to its curtailed running distance. At least the German route, if a little bland, does run between two sensible locations. As does the Leeds network despite my tongue in cheek musings about the Settle & Carlisle.

 

The 158 will be a great layer too, giving the fast runs upto Skipton.

Personally I really liked what I saw, definitely some bits I didn’t like which I mentioned above (mainly the lack of SDO & the suspiciously M7 sounding 331), but I’ll be waiting for tonight’s console stream to pull the trigger on a purchase.

If the German route plays fine without blurring, I’ll grab the deluxe, if not then I’ll just be waiting for the standalone UK & 333 packs (aslong as they don’t have the usual console issues too).

 

I'm still not sold on the deluxe edition. I need to see more of the German route as the US route didn't interest me. Seems more of the same but in a different location.

I think the 331 might turn out to be the most fun modern EMU to drive.

 

It was as it happens, the first time I’ve seen the full cab desk of the 331 powered up, I always thought one of the main screens had the speedometer.

Most ETCS screens do show your speed, which I presume is how Northern Drivers are checking speeds - surely they aren’t depending on the offset speedometer? Seems like an inefficiency in cab-design otherwise.

If they do indeed use the ETCS screen as the main speedometer, it would be nice to have at least that functionality rather than a blacked out screen.

Overall though I am really looking forward to getting my hands on the 331, I really haven’t liked many of the newest fleet members from the past few years & much prefer the era of 80’s-2000’s builds, but the Northern CAFs are quite good looking units & I always think of them as the Desiro City of the North.

 

That was my initial sentiment but buying Standard (£40) then the 333 once on sale separately (presumed £15) would only have been £3 less than going Deluxe. I mean, as stated previously i wasn't that impressed with the ICE 4 and the GP49 is a bit of an oddity but I would hope between the two there will be £3 worth of extra gameplay. And while I was conserving some of my Steam credit (now the gift cards are pretty much extinct) for ETS2 Coaches and the various TSW (and SimRail) stuff in the pipeline, some if not all of that could be months away so plenty of time to bank it up again. And, like storing extra food in the pantry, at some point it would run out anyway.

 

Many people, like yourself, travel on this line to visit the iconic and historical KWVR at Keighley and this has been omitted. To leave it out is Tragic and an insult to a railway which has been included in some many memorable TV series and Films!!

Matt said on the TSW7 roadshow that to include the KWVR was a step too far! This is obviously a RIVET route as l feel that any another designer would have included it. It is only five miles long and had RIVET put the effort in, it would have gone someway towards excusing them for some of their dire and incapable work in the past.

Including the KWVR would have brought this route to life and should be included soon.

 

Don't they also have a Class 25?

 

The heritage railway at Paignton wasn't included last time so I don't know why anyone expected this to be any different

 

Yep, and I do remember the same complaints a year ago to be fair

 

l had forgotten about that, another great opportunity to add to the game missed!!!

 

I’m not convinced adding KWVR would have done anyone any favours, it would have taken time away from the main route & then we’d have 2 separate railways undercooked.

WSR set the standard for heritage lines & you’re not getting that sort of quality plus an additional 50miles of conventional urban railway.

I don’t agree it would have ‘brought the route to life’ either - the heritage line is its own railway & only interacts with Airedale at one station, a station which has stock placed there anyway.

Maybe having an AI portal with some units playing around at the station would have been good, but adding that railway as a whole is a pretty extreme expectation.

We all know DTG like to do some extreme cutbacks on their routes, but myself and others were surprised to see Paignton & Plymouth added to Riviera, which even exceeded TSC’s scope - still though people wanted the additional heritage line.

I think DTG have done well with the scope of this route, they took feedback from Cardiff City Line & brought a very extensive network & kept up with their scope standards set last year.

Ultimately if anything’s missing it’s extra detail put into the existing infrastructure, not adding a heritage line which would do well as its own DLC.

 

Watched last night's stream and I'm happy with what i saw so have cancelled my cancellation for the pre-order!

Although I was negative about consoles not getting the enhanced graphics settings, seeing the comparisons I've realised it's something i can live without until/if we ever get them. (I bet we never do!)

 

That's fair enough. I like the scope of the German route but haven't watched the stream in full as it's been a busy week. I'll watch it again as it seems silly not getting the deluxe route if I'm going to get it at some point.

As you say there will be a steady trickle of new DLC or which a lot is of interest. Plus the Bus London add-on which looks interesting.

 

I’m not sure adding an extra 5 miles of railway and scenery is an ‘extreme’ expectation. We’re just making excuses for DTG at this stage. I wouldn’t even care if there was no services to run on it, it’s pretty straightforward to create a scenario and add some heritage traction.

 

Nope, the cab interior is completely right! The speedometer is on the very left of the desk.

 

I don't really get this expectation to have the preserved railway included... No one was ever promised this from the outset, so to change the goal posts of your expectations, on something you were never promised in the first place is pretty selfish and bratty behaviour to say the least.

We were promised the Northern Airedale & Wharfdale lines, and we've got the whole network, with a full packed 2025 WTT timetable. To be quite blunt, outside of the station the preserved railway shares with the Skipton line that's all you should be getting with this route. The preserved railway is a independent railway of its own and has nothing to do with the National Network this route represents. Added to that, it just adds strain to the rest of the route where it's not necessary.

If you were promised the route in the first place, then you'd be justified in your complaints. But to have never be promised it, and then have an expectation it should be included seems quite a selfish, and unfair to me if that is your main grudge and criticism of the route.

I don't have to agree with others opinions, but I do respect them if they don't like the route itself. But I find it hard to respect people opinions when it boils down to them not getting their own way on something they were never promised in the first place.