Amsterdam-den Haag Disscussion

and that dutch TSG person is the legendary TSC goat christrains he makes everything for the netherlands basiclly

 

Yes and no.

Chris appears to build modern rolling stock only. Sure, you can buy a Mat64 from him, but he built that model back when Ma64 was still in active service in real life. The real classic Dutch stock, like the Mat54 described earlier, does exist in TSClassic, but wasn't built by Chris. Older rolling stock for TSClassic is mostly developed by MarcD ("MyRailDreams") and Dutch Classics.

Still, if we want more Dutch trains and routes, Chris would be a great TSW dev. Let's hope Chris is interested in becoming a second-party developer for DTG then!

 

Well Matt did say in the Roadmap livestream that "The VIRM has a clock ticking on it", which makes me believe they captured the non-modernized version in the old livery. Those are indeed all modernized soon.

 

I hope it's the non-modernized version, I really don't like the Flow livery on the VIRM, while the Flow livery is nice on other newer trains like the ICNG.

 

It looks like a different route, or is this a preview of a (first) part of the route:

 

I like the DDR-AR/DDZ. I think my order of preference would be ICNG > DDZ > SLT.

VIRM was the original train I even hoped to play when I first picked up TSW, although I settled for the German Dosto cars as a second choice. So I could not be more happy about that.

Didn't realize there were two threads, that's unfortunate.

 

That's a different route, set in the other side of the country (east, where Amsterdam - Den Haag is set in the west).
It's a homebrew project with potential.

 

There are modernized VIRMs (VIRMm) that are not in the Flow livery.
See #77 for an overview of the three liveries currently in use on VIRM(m).

 

Yhe fig. 2 version is the one that I personally like the most.

 

As long as it has the black part around the front window, I"m happy. That black part really maked the design of this unit, it's sad it's gone with the modern Flow design.

 

It's gone on all liveries, replaced by a bigger yellow area. Even on unmodernised units that still run in their original "RegioRunner" livery, first introduced in 1994.

New regulations enforce large white, bright orange or bright yellow areas on the front of trains to make the train more visible from a distance. This is done so that pedestrians and farm equipment crossing the tracks on unsupervised crossings on private property can see the train coming much sooner than without those large bright coloured fronts.

Since VIRM was mostly black in the front, NS simply repainted part of the front in a bright yellow. For the same reason, SNG and FLIRT got their blue bits on the front repainted into bright yellow. I've heard that ICNG's yellow area is just large enough to pass, otherwise that too would have had more yellow added to the design.

EDIT: these regulations were introduced after a number of incidents on private, unsupervised crossings, where (mostly) farm equipment did not clear the tracks fast enough and trains slamming into them. Even though all these incidents were on Arriva's network, who ran trains mostly white in the front already, the Dutch rail safety watchdog still introduced new regulations for all operators.

Ironically, Arriva didn't have to repaint their trains at all, while NS was forced to repaint pretty much all their stock at he time (only Koploper and DDZ met the requirements and SGMm was given a pass by the watchdog that stock was on the verge of being decommissioned).

This is also why DBAG replaced their standard white bar in the front on locos that run in the Netherlands (BR1600, BR189, BR193, BR6400) with a large white area:


BR1600


BR189


BR6400

 

As a dutchie myself I really want this route to atleast have mutliple liveries/versions of the VIRM(m) like VIRM-4, VIRMm 2/3 (not flow but the other modernized one) and the VIRM 2/3 Flow also I wish we still had the virm-1/2 with the pink doors from the inside and also purple/greyish seats and the catering-lift/elevator and the toilet that flushed on the tracks and not in a tank. Also I know this is now a common feature on all (future) train sim worlds but add conductor mode for the virm and slt (if we get slt just like matt was discussing about it being a future train dlc) and this time with conductor mode add a whistle you can use at anytime I also wish in the future for a rotterdam or amsterdam metro dlc and for amsterdam my most anticipated rolling stock would be alstom metropolis m5/m6.

 

For a future metro DLC, the line Rotterdam CS - Hoek van Holland would be a very nice one.

 

Yes or Den Haag-Slinge

 

Conductor mode will no doubt be present, as it has been for all routes where it is realistic to have a conductor. Zwolle-Groningen has a conductor mode on both trains too after all.

Personally, I hope for authentic announcements on station platforms like we've seen in a couple of newer routes already, and perhaps on board as well (although you can easily fix the latter with third party tools if you play on PC, console gamers do not have that option).

The metro will most likely not be included, as that would a) mean a new license (with RET/RandstadRail) and b) a rather large extension of the map, as the metro only runs alongside the mainline track for a kilometer or two (from Den Haag Centraal upper platforms until just after Den Haag Laan van NOI station) before it sways off.
We might get some AI metros with no company logos perhaps, but I doubt it. The AI metros we've seen on other routes (GWR Remastered, Mildmay Line) rely on repaints of existing stock, and there simply is no existing stock in TSW that looks like the RET/RandstadRail metro trains in the game. Other routes that have metro like lines running next to it (Hamburg - Lübeck and the Mannheim - Karlsruhe routes come to mind, there are likely others that I'm not thinking of right now) simply left the metros trains out completely, even though the track is modelled in the game.

I'm sure someone will mod them in for PC players (again, console players would miss out), but likely not drivable, as it's not really worth the effort for the short stretch of track that will be part of this route's map. A possible candidate for repainting would be the British class 365 (remember the RET metros run with pantos up in Den Haag, and only use their third rail shoes as they enter Rotterdam's own metro network), but any option you'd pick would take some creative liberty. There simply isn't rolling stock in the game that looks close to the RET-RandstadRail units.

EDIT: the rolling stock that comes with the new Lisbon route looks like a good fit cosmetically, but unfortunately uses a different gauge.

For the non-Dutchies here, this is the RandstadRail livery, used on trams and trains in the Den Haag/Rotterdam area. RandstadRail is a joint venture between Rotterdam's metro (RET) and Den Haag's trams (HTM) and has its own distinct livery, that differs from both companies' liveries.

Both metro and fast tram share the section of track that will be in the Den Haag - Amsterdam map:


Fig1. RET/RandstadRail metro unit, found on RET Metro Line "E" (Den Haag Centraal Station to Rotterdam Centraal station over Rotterdam Blijdorp, and onwards to the Rotterdam "Slinge" suburb).


Fig 2. Metro trains in RET's own livery are sometimes deployed on the line to Den Haag as well. The units in question are the same under the hood and differ in livery and upholstery design only.


Fig 3. On other lines, RandStadRail employs low floor trams instead of metro trains. Stock used is Alstom RegioCitadis, capable of speeds up to 100km/h, and usually run as two coupled units. The RandstadRail line to Zoetermeer uses these trams, and is the line that shares the short section of track with the metro, part of the Amsterdam - Den Haag map we're getting.

Since the metro trains are high floor units, all platforms on the shared section of track are dual height. The trams sway off the shared section of track and into the city center of Den Haag between Den Haag Centraal and Den Haag Laan van NOI stations, using the landmark Netkousviaduct (literal translation: "panty hose viaduct"). As the viaduct is clearly visible from the mainline tracks, it should be modelled in the game:


Fig 4. Netkousviaduct, used by the trams to transfer from Den Haag's tram network onto the RandstadRail tracks shared with the metro and vice versa. The viaduct merges the trams onto the metro tracks just before Den Haag Laan van NOI station. The other end of the viaduct merges the trams onto Den Haag's tram tracks, and lead the trams into the Den Haag Centraal tram platforms in the main station hall, and onwards into the underground running section of the city's tram network.


Fig 5. Netkousviaduct with the Beatrixkwartier tram stop in the middle (wider part), seen from above.


Fig 6. One of the exits of the Netkousviaduct, with a HTM/RandstadRail tram on it. The viaduct carries two tracks, not clearly visible in this image. The tram is driving towards the camera, on the left hand track from our viewpoint.


Fig 7. A similar architecture and construction to the Netkousviaduct was used on the upper level platforms of Den Haag Centraal, where the RET/RandstadRail metro trains terminate. Even though the HTM/RandstadRail trams don't call at these platforms (they sway off from the shared tracks before reaching these platforms), a low floor island platform is provided in case the trams need to be rerouted.

These upper platforms are located above the mainline rail platforms, and should also be modelled in the route at Den Haag Centraal.

 

Very glad to see that a second Dutch route is finally in the works. DTG took waaaay too long with this. And I get the impression this route is still way down the line. So it wouldn’t surprise me if this comes out at the back end of tsw7’s lifecycle or even begin of tsw8.

Now, if we could only get a Belgian route in the game…

 

I heard that NMBS-SNCB is quite hesitant to license out their trademark. I own a couple of Belgian trains for TSClassic, and they do come with the (B)-branding though, so perhaps my information is simply wrong.

I'd love to see some Belgian routes in TSW.

 

I Would love to have Amsterdam to Rotterdam route I done irl both High Speed and Normal don't know we could have both in route

 

But I don't know it be to long it would go from Amsterdam to Breda

 

Zwolle-Groningen was released in march 2024 so I would say Amsterdam will prob. release around march/april 2027

 

Didn't they tell in a stream, routes are made in something like 3 months (the routes from DTG itself)? In that case, it wouldn't take that long. If they make another Dutch route with the ICNG, then at least there is already one train which can drive in Belgium

 

That's also a possibility, however I think the line to Hoek van Holland is more scenic.

Fun part for those who are not familiar with the metro lines Rotterdam - The Hague and Rotterdam - Hoek van Holland. In the past those where train lines operated by NS. NS closed those lines and the RET (Rotterdam bus tram and metro) took over those lines and converted them to metro lines. The line to Hoek van Holland is extended, so it ends in front of the beach.

 

our randstadrail citadis trams are never coupled im a person whos very local to the hague tram lines and trams here are never coupled they always run alone

 

Not anymore, but they used to drive coupled pre-covid on line 4K. I used to be in The Hague during the morning rushhours a few times a week between 2015-2019 and have seen them quite a lot.

 

I took a train on this route back in '98.
I can't remember anything about it obvs.

 

Ah, that must have changed then. I used to regularly visit Den Haag pre-COVID and remember seeing them coupled more often than not.
My bad!

 

I think the high speed line is a likely candidate for a TSW route in the future, especially now that Amsterdam Centraal has been modelled for the game. IMHO, the route is quite boring to drive though (at least it is in TSClassic).

The section between Amsterdam Centraal and Hoofddorp is classic rail (1500VDC and ATB) and is an interesting drive, where you traverse the inner city of Amsterdam on elevated tracks at 80 kph, next to the metro tracks, then interconnect with the line towards Amsterdam Zuid, pass through the Schiphol Tunnel and call at Schiphol Airport's massive underground train station*.
But from Hoofddorp until just before Rotterdam Centraal, the line is fully automated through ETCS. Even the voltage changeovers are fully automated on ICNG. The line runs mostly through tunnels and trenched tracks, and there is only a highway and some fields on either side when the line is above ground.
For me, only the crossing of very wide Hollands Diep river is interesting.

In other words, there's not much to do, other than watching the same set concrete textures and catenary poles whizz by at highs speeds.

The classic line from Amsterdam to Rotterdam is more interesting to drive I think. I wouldn't hold my breath for both routes to be included in one package though.

*I wonder how they'd model Schiphol Airport train station. In real life, in order to get from one platform to the other, you have to traverse the airport's main entrance hall (as the airport and the train station are highly integrated). That is one large hall, and no matter what time of day, it's always extremely busy.

 

Technically, the domestic ICNG units are not fitted to run in Belgium. Only the 21 ICNG-B units (out of the total of 88 ICNG units that NS own) are equipped with 3000VDC converters and the classic Belgian safety systems. Those 21 units are easy to spot, as they're the only ICNG units that come in the NS FLOW livery (as opposed to the classic blue and yellow IC lovery all the other units come in).

ICNG domestic and ICNG-D ("Duitsland", meaning Germany):


ICNG-B for services to and from Belgium:

 

ICNG-D is also in Flow, but as far as I know only 2 have been built so far and both are still being tested. The main difference between the B and D on the exterior is the small NMBS logo on the B. I'm guessing the D version will get a DB logo, but only time will tell

 

FANMADE map of the route (key below)


KEY:
Blue line = drivable track
Grey line = non-drivable track
Large rounds = intercity stations (for VIRM and SNG)
Rectangles = sprinter stations (only SNG)
Small rounds = depots, which currently is unknown if and how they will be in the game
Again, this is FANMADE, somewhat geographically accurate.

 

Station De Vink is a bit special, its the only station in the Netherlands that hasn't got a city or village name in its name. It got it's named after a little Hamlet. The station is on the border of Leiden and Voorschoten

 

What is Haarlem atelier? I've only ever heard of it being reffered to as Haarlem werkplaats

 

https://maps.app.goo.gl/6ZDtXnZgSgkGkNDm9?g_st=ac

The place where I started working for the Dutch Railroad.