Train Sim World 7 - Discussion

It works for me.
Should be fixed to a reasonable state by then.
When I first saw the game in the PS store I thought; "Wow, a PC level game I can play". Which it is really.
So I expect deficiencies on console. Buy cheap.

 

You reap what you sow as they say.

 

To be fair Squirrel is basically semi-retired from YouTube at this point. I don’t think it’s any gripe he has against DTG. He just streams now and hasn’t touched most games he used to play in years. The few videos he does put out occasionally aren’t even gameplay anymore, just scripted showcase videos. It's a shame because he used to be the premiere YouTuber for transport sim games 10 years ago, but I guess everyone loses interest at some point.

 

He streams most weekends still. But yeah, his trad sim stuff has finished. It was his vids that got me into TSW

 

Has there been any discussion about the amount of loading icons on locos when going into TT mode? This has really stuck out for me in these TSW7 streams

I fired up TSW6 to see if maybe I was misremembering....but no, this wasn't an issue before. It just makes the whole UI seem cheap

 

It's so the menu loads back to menu quicker after a service

 

I'm sure I'm not alone in saying I would prefer to wait a tad longer and see all the icons there as normal rather than a bunch of spinning icons

 

Agreed. I don't mind the wait. It's certainly not a few minutes like Matt said in stream last night.

 

Yes, i agree.

When they talked about faster loading, I think most people assumed they meant booting up the game from the desktop, not back to the menus from a service. I've never found that to be a long wait in any case- certainly i'd rather have the icons working properly.

 

To this and other similar thoughts in the thread - there aren't many actual improvements that core developers would do, it's literally just packing the already existing mods alongside the game. Matt said in one of the early streams that the reason they aren't available on console is that they didn't even review what Jetwash has changed in the engine configuration file in his mod. They just packed it in and made a menu button for enabling it.

DirectX 12 is also just creating a an ingame menu for what used to be configurable outside of the game for years.

 

the stream could be a sliding doors moment. has there ever been an out of memory crash on an official live stream before?

 

Sheesh, I guess at least he's being honest about it, but wow. That doesn't instil me with a lot of confidence, even on PC.

Hopefully last night's catastrophe will be an eye-opener for them. Surely if you're on Xbox you will be skipping this one for the time being.

 

Clearly the QA team are the Ambassadors because DTG has no internal team anymore apart from a huge Marketing Team and Matt.

Rivet and TSG are producing the DTG content.

Matt has been discussing fixes for crashes and blurry textures since 2021.

When you present a new version of the game with multiple instances of "out of video memory" crashes, z fighting and none working cab buttons it becomes clear again that the budget went to the PC players, a new terrible looking UI, and console players get more broken Promises.

 

I don’t get all the blowback from the stream. They could’ve just skipped it completely and then had a bunch of customers complain when they get their hands on it. But instead Matt went ahead and showed it with all its flaws and it was fully transparent.

I’m more than happy to be critical of DTG, but this was actually refreshing to see. And maybe because of how poorly the stream went, these issues will finally be raised to those working on console so that they get fixed over a few patches (I don’t have high hopes for this part, but more of a chance now than ever). But the current state is clear and we can make our decisions accordingly. I always pick up the free version anyway and then get what new routes I want over time.

 

I am genuinely concerned how this will shape up out in the world on PC’s, too. Not all of us have super duper hardware, thanks to first Covid, then the crypto farming and now AI data centres pushing hardware prices to an insane level. I did recently replace my GPU with an entry level RTX card (3050), but the CPU is still an I7 4770.

So when the game installs tonight, I will be using my Steam refund window very carefully. One essential test to perform is whether a route crashes when loading a save game. Both GWE Remastered (on its new timetable) and Frankfurt SBahn do that, so will be one of the first checks I do on each route.

I think there needs to be a serious inquest at DTG as to how we have arrived at this juncture. Obviously the rush to meet the deadline for their annual renewal has played a big part but also, without singling anyone out, the competency of all involved in the process. As stated previously, this isn’t some tuppence halfpenny game being developed on someone’s home computer, it’s a multi £million business. So they need to start acting like it.

 

I struggle with this take on the situation (not you specifically but I’ve seen it a few times). The idea that showcasing the inherent issues is a good outcome and the alternative is they, effectively, con customers into spending £60 on a broken game. We should be getting a high quality, stable game for the money - the alternative is bad, regardless of how transparently it’s portrayed

 

Executive producer not knowing the game has easily reproducable stability issues on one of the routes is insane. Like, what state are the processes in, when this can happen.

The same for "maybe it's fixed in the next build"... like, what kind of RC anarchy is this? Doesn't the executive producer have knowledge about what's the state currently, what is in what build? And what build he has installed?

People are quick to jump on blaming QA people, but those people are not independent, they don't test (or atleast they shouldn't) willy- nilly what they feel like. There has to be a plan, that is approved (and then revised and improved), someone has to be responsible for the process. And yeah, if they would repeatadly miss stuff like this, then someone is responsible for getting the department in order...

But this release is mismanaged on so many levels, that you cannot blame the people on the bottom of the hierarchy, who don't have deciding power to actually change anything. I.e. how can a single bugfix, for something I remember reporting in TSW 5, be presented as "Passengers improvements"... I know, Matt said "we planned to do more", but when, in the lead-up to release date, you figured out you will not make more, how did it stayed in the presentation materials as one of the main bullet points?

It's sad to see, because the individual parts look to be solid this year, and improvement in all major ways. The locos look and sound great, the routes look good. The timetables look packed. It's just the glue that should glue it altogethere in a package isn't gluing....

 

Well I didn't watch the console stream, but yikes it doesn't sound good. Maybe I should never have pre-ordered...

 

You have to feel sorry for the console users, I didn't watch the stream as I'm a PC user but reading through this thread is saddening in how this game is going on a downward sprial for console users and I must admit I would of given up this game a long time ago if I was on console.

DTG have got some big and hard decisions to make on where this game's future lies on console

 

I'm immediately here of the view after last night especially that TSW7 should now be entirely free - and so should the deluxe routes - as a serious gesture of goodwill. Try again with the next iteration, but this is where my mind is at now. Too late to pull the product, but take the substantial financial hit, and have it free.

 

It doesn’t need to be free, or reduced or whatever. It needs to be fixed - if I got what I saw last night for free it would still be a pointless thing to spend time on as it’s just not fit for purpose.

We don’t need more lies about beta testers and QA not picking up any issues, no more spiel about how difficult a fix is, no more ‘we understand it’s frustrating’, no more ‘a fix is in sight’. We need an actual fix, confirmed by DTG with an actual date for arrival of said fix.

 

Happy to just take the free version of TSW7. Will leave it on steam account, keep playing TSW6 and only move over when something comes along that I really want, which could be a while.

 

I noticed too Matt also had 4k mode on .maybe he should have tried to turn some of the layers off and set to HD and see if it still crash or not ..I had to turn 4K off on my ps 5 to cut down on the chances of crashes it helped still get occaisonal crashes..Except a couple routes east coast way remaster and brighton route i get really bad crashing ,east coast way remaster is the worst ,one of the updates broke something on it cause it played decent at first now crashes every time i try to play it wont load just dumps as it boots route up even on foot..guess when early acess starts today i. i will not play the german route till last or will not do a full run at first ,

 

Or admit the project is effectively end of line and simply cannot take any more enhancements, particularly on console (or lower end PC’s) and focus on good quality DLC, within the constraints the core can handle until they can come up with a more efficient game engine.

 

If that's the issue than how do they even have a 4K mode on console?

It's not a PC, the console even under worse case scenario should be able to run it without crashing. Idea with quality modes is to provide options for people who value resolution or performance in games you have to choose. In no case should you need to use one or the other just to make the game playable.

 

I play on PS5 too and turning off 4k doesn't help me with crashes and I don't want to play on HD cause the routes just doesn't look good in HD. Of course it's possible but I think it shouldn't be happening that WE have to reduce the resolution

 

Yeah you’d think when a developer has a product where most things need a fix of some sort, they’d stop adding more to the pile.

Unfortunately though going from some of things I saw last night & how surprised Matt was at some of the issues, I just don’t think the guys in charge are actually aware of how bad the quality of the game is for consoles.

FYI for anyone who didn’t catch it, the Leeds route also had blurry textures. End of last nights stream, Matt approaches Leeds in a 47 & loses all cab control label textures.

 

According to BA, who posted a video on the DB BR 440 yesterday, the crashing is also an issue on PC - he tried twice to leave Wurzburg & crashed at the first stations he had to stop at.

Edit: it also crashed at the first station out of Nurnberg.

Edit 2: and again at the second station. He reckons it’s an issue with the AI guard. Not going to watch any further though, pretty clear TSW 7 is not fit for release.

 

It is an AI conductor issue. So turned that off it fixed the issue.

 

Have to agree, it is genuinely bewildering that an executive producer seems to lack oversight and knowledge to this extent. It's a bit like being surprised that the live weather didn't transition as it should in the other stream, unless of course someone used the wrong build. That does happen.

 

I've refunded my pre-order (PS5). If it does get fixed then maybe I'll buy it then, and swallow the 10% discount. I don't mind waiting as I wasn't going to play without layers anyway.

I've got a horrible feeling that the "solution" is going to be pruning the timetable but we'll see.

It's just so disappointing. One of the reasons I went to console - and certainly the reason I upgraded to PS5 - was to play TSW. I know that a console won't keep pace with a really high end gaming PC, but they are generally known for being able to run high-end games with stable performance. The Frankfurt S-Bahn debacle was clearly a warning, but apparently not enough of one to DTG. And that was 16 months ago, or 2 releases ago.

I don't mind we're not getting the advanced settings, that's what PCs are for, but I just want the main parts of the game to work, like they did for so long. Shame really, I was quite looking forward to it.

 

I watched the beginning of the con sole stream where it crashed. Was embarrassing. Left hand doesnt seem to know what right hand is doing, has done, or not done. Routes I most loo forward too now are those by JT. Always top quality.

 

Seemed to be working okay on the Leeds route, just watched part of BA’s Bradford to Ilkley stream. Only issue seemed to be the conductor giving one long tone on the buzzer rather than two short tones. Plus the doors not all closing (not a fault). But it’s a slight concern that a key new feature is causing such issues.

 

One of the ambassadors also said the auto conductor dont work on some routes either .causes crash on PC, he said he had already told DTG about it..he tried freight hauler mode on the Miami route he was having issue where on some of the sidings the derailer s would not work and the one time he tried to couple up a car it derailed as he coupled..saw B.A s video on freight hauler he did better but did a run differently on another siding and seemed to work.

 

I agree. After all, not every PC user owns the latest hardware.
It feels like they’ve suddenly bumped up the specifications.
Global prices for components like memory and GPUs are skyrocketing, too.
I really wish they would provide more detailed information regarding the settings.

 

It should be, but I can't help but feel it'll lead to more "Tell them we're working on a fix. They'll all be back for Tadami Line and the other new routes/locos when they see what they look like. Also don't stream on console again"

If they hadn't streamed it in 4K there would then have been people complaining that they didn't run it in 4K, and if it had crashed while running in performance mode instead of resolution mode people would have been comp,laining about how it doesn't even work in performance mode and changing their minds about their pre-orders. In that regard they'd be damned if they do, and damned if they don't.

I'm glad they did stream on console at all, even if it was something of a disaster. How they react to this will be very important going forward. Has anybody from DTG/Pullup said anything yet today? If this had been a GTA6 stream they'd be pushing the release back by six months and fixing it. I know bigger devs can afford to do that, but it still looks more than a little suspicious that they weren't happy with Tadami Line on the day of release and moved it back (definitely not to try and get people to buy TSW7 for it) but they don't seem to be doing anything to address two year old unfixed bugs being revealed alongside memory related crashes to desktop on a promotional stream.

 

I guess when early acess starts i will play and see how things go on PS5 , then i will jump on the forums and see how others are faring , I plan on starting with the Miami route first since i am US based and like the locomotive variety we getting ..and will try freight hauler mode since US freight switching is most complex out of the 3 routes. after that will do the UK route ..then the German route also i may not start out with the ICE 4 will start with another train and not do a full route run at first..

 

on the 333 the long tone is there to say a guard is keyed in with all the doors closed (It was explained in another stream) and then the two buzzers should follow after

 

They won’t pull it, but the least they could do is perhaps extend the 10% discount beyond the Early Access period. Give people a chance to see what the issues, whether they are going to be fixed, but not have to pay full whack for the game.

Heads up - the official feedback for the Core has just been placed in the feedback area. However I can see stuff being scattered everywhere, some for core, some for features, some for the routes, some still in this thread. Going to be a labyrinth to ke track of everything.

 

This will be the first time I don't bother getting the paid version of TSW, I'll just be getting the free starter pack and picking up the A&W route and 333 in a sale

 

I'm not even sure I want it to do the free update until I see how some of the older routes run and look on it. It could be a case of wait for the big update in December, but that has me wondering whether I want it at all if I'm thinking of waiting three months to step up to a free version.

 

DTG certainly seem like a company that needs to release something by the end of each fiscal quarter and once a year their marketing department invents some new features at the last minute, to go along with a new chapter. (That said, outside Steam sales, this is the right moment to get three routes and additional trains for a proper price, when all is said and done.)

After yesterday's stream, they really should be postponing the console release. Mainstream media won't pick it up, though, way too niche. So they'll just go ahead and act like it's nothing.

 

I know it’s a cliche but I have just cancelled my pre order and will go back to Plan A - waiting for the free update. Not paying £58 for a buggy unfulfilling experience. I mean, watching the BA stream I wasn’t that impressed with the 333, certainly the sounds now they are not being curated in a DTG stream bear more than a resemblance to Rivet’s cronky EMU audio - the infamous Roswell UFO. I may end up getting mocked for my flip flopping but there are two many yellow cards emerging and I think on this occasion wait and see what happens. None of the core routes and trains are that interestIng to me and in the normal course of events would have been reserved for a sale if at all.

 

They'll occasionally do a sale in a few months. It wouldn't surprise me if they do a sale in December when the new update arrives. Might be when I pick it up. I ended up with most of the TSW6 core stuff because it got discounted pretty deep over the year. A decent discount right now in lieu of holding the release back to address the issues shown on the stream last night might also be quite the goodwill gesture as well.

It depends on whether it ends up on something like r/livestreamfails. I think I saw an article about TSW7 or one of the TSW6 DLC sales on Eurogamer, but it was more "this seems like a pretty boring game, but if you like trains I guess it's alright, especially because it's discounted."

 

Matt did mention several times during the console stream that a day one patch was in the works but I his comments were heavily loaded with "should" and "might" (and the likes) when discussing the actual impact of this patch, so I'm not fully convince much will change in the short term. With that in mind, I'd personally say buy it whilst it's got the 10% discount because we all know that 'wait and see if it improves' isn't applicable with TSW and temptation will invariably get the better of you anyway. Just use the 2 hour window to your advantage and maybe report back your findings to the community.

 

Sorry, guys, but what DTG’s getting up to here is really under the belt.

TSW 7: We’ve added live weather. We’ve improved the passengers. We’ve added the Freight Hauler. We’ve fixed the FPS and texture issues.
Seriously, DTG, did you actually do all that? No, DTG, you certainly didn’t.

The passengers haven’t been improved at all; the live weather didn’t work as it should during the first live stream. In Freight Hauler mode, the goods wagons derail when you try to couple or uncouple them.
DTG has simply been lying to its community from start to finish, and has been doing so for several years now.

Today I saw an interview with DTG’s Lukas at Gamescom, and that’s exactly what he told the other person.
We’ve now implemented live weather in TSW 7, and it works just as well as our superbly functioning dynamic weather.

I reckon nobody at DTG even realises anymore what utter nonsense they’re spouting and writing.
If not even Chief Matt knows how badly TSW 7 runs on Xbox, how on earth does he know who does what and where at DTG?

 

Live weather isn't a new original idea for the game. There are several apps/mods that do it for PC already - better than DTGs implementation it seems
Passenger improvements is one bug fix - which is hardly a game changer, and certainly not enough to be promoted as a new feature.
Freight hauler just reminds me of that Free Roam Task Generator forum user Noir made.

 

PC player here. I don't really understand why others like me would rejoice in the mess that is TSW on consoles. DTG are going to stick with consoles anyway as that's clearly where the money is. That means PC users are going to continue to get lumped with what is basically a console game adapted to PCs.

As a consequence we have to reluctantly accept all that entails around "optimisation" (which we now understand to primarily mean lower-res textures), environment limitations (such as DTG sticking mostly to short routes and recently ruling out merging) and the clunky UI with awkward lists, character limits in names, having to click in boxes before typing, etc. Have you ever tried to play TSW or WoS on Steam using a controller with custom mappings to simulate keyboard presses ? Never been tested clearly : virtual keyboard doesn't appear when you try to search for something, master key doesn't always work depending on stock, high horn and low horn are often swapped over, throttle increase occasionally "disconnecting" and requiring you to pause and resume in order to apply power... All of which shows the serious PC player is a secondary consideration vs the casual console gamer.

What we need before anything else is a game that is proprely optimised to work smoothly on the hardware it's designed for, which is not what we have currently. Then maybe they can concerntrate on making it a good user experience. My current concern is that TSW7 sales figures will be well below expectations because of the current user experience and the unconvicing "we're working on it" talk around blurry textures that we've had for something like two years.

JB

 

I'm primarily a PC player. But I had also pre-ordered the PS5 version as sometimes it's just nice to play on the big TV.

Still getting the PC version, looks quite nice to me and worth it for the UK and German content and I'm quite excited to download it later

I have, however decided to refund the PS5 version after last nights console stream. The 10% off isn't worth the risk. I'll re buy when/if there are positive reports.

I like the way the game is going on PC with DLSS and new lighting. But this console issue shouldn't be going into another iteration.

 

Don’t hold your breath. Having the thing made free entirely this year would at least for now make the pill a little less bitter to swallow. Not just for this, but for the endless long standing issues neglected.