Apologies And Updates

Running train have launched a new update. The passengers are fantastic, they get on, off, walk around smartly, don't jump in front of trains, don't endlessly glitch in circles etc etc etc.

Running Train also apologise, yes.....APOLOGISE for delays in updates. When was the last time we saw or heard a genuine, no spin and humble apology for the endless issues ongoing here? Genuine question, not being too unkind, but it's a valid point.

 

Thanks for the news. I did have passengers turned off but I'll now re-enable them.

 

Just wondering - what exactly does an apology to improve your experience in the game?

 

Transparency in the development process. Builds trust that the developer isn't hiding anything, that he/they are working to progress the reported bugs and make their game the best it can be......

It's an update from mid September, wasn't released yesterday as per the OP.

 

Exactly this. If it's good enough for Rockstar to delay the release of their stuff because they're not happy with it then surely somebody like Dovetail can build a bit of community spirit once in a while rather than burying their heads in the sand.

 

Well.... It's all about the money, money, money....

I know the train is on the wrong side of the tracks.... AI doesn't realise that....

 

It is, at the end of the day about making sure the shareholders are happy.

 

Appalled that you asked this. By this logic I'll release a mod and in the release thread call everyone who uses it a braindead moron because they could've just created the mod themselves instead.
But hey, doesn't change the product does it?

 

This question ironically displays everything wrong with what appears to be their current mindset.

 

No i am just wondering, if a formal apology for whatever really does change anything in the way you experience the game? I don't disagree that things are sometimes really messy when it comes to communication and bug fixes. But an apology doesn't fix any bugs, does it? The best apology would be to deliver?

 

Yes which the developer of Running Train did with the 0.9.4, an absolutely fantastic patch/upgrade. DTG could learn a thing or two from a sole developer who's balancing everything to do with his game, he hasn't got a Community team that's bigger than most other departments within the DTG umbrella that fail to communicate on what's getting fixed and what isn't getting fixed. They also don't seem to communicate with 3rd party developers and seem shocked when a game breaking bug appears live on a preview stream.... Transparent communication with your customers goes a long way when things go wrong.

 

That argument would only work if the developer of Running Train didn't fix bugs... But he does, and patches for Running Train are quite frequent, unlike what the genius developers of TSW manage to put out.

 

It's the other way around. The apology itself does not fix the bugs. But it would def be an accompanying sign of an actual change of approach.

 

Half the forum would be filled by a 'sorry' if they bothered to do that (glad they dont ^^). And who would believe them anyway.

 

It’s consumer engagement and adding value to the relationship. People like it, customers/consumers like it. It is absolutely warranted with a situation where you have a very large portion of your consumer base angry and at worst apathetic about the ongoing bugs and sub standard updates that usually end up breaking more than they fix. A significant portion of this community feel their concerns are not listened to and are shrugged under the carpet purely to chase profit.
That’s not a sustainable business model and attitudes need to change.

 

DTG apologise the difference is more DTG apologise and then we never see it rectified most of the time or at least we will let you know when we have an update.

Wheras the guy with Running Sim made sure that he had fix that worked and released it with the apology.

Which make his apology more sincere and credible.

 

It's exactly this. You can apologise until you're blue in the face and say you're looking into these things, or putting it on a list and it's a bigger job than you expected, but unless something is done about it it's lip service. "Sorry for the error, here's a fix" is infinitely better. There are lessons multimillion dollar, publicly traded Dovetail/Pullup Games can learn from the one chap who's working on Running Train by himself about how to deal with your player base..

 

Oh yeah, absolutely, I (and likely others) were talking about apologies, to real problems if present, yes, but that at least eventually lead to something.
That's what keeps the userbase feeling like there's at least some thought given to them.
What RT are doing.

Empty ass apologies like the continuous "Sorry, I'll get X guy to look into it, pronto" and then nothing ever happens for four years, like DTG do here, are worthless if not actively ragebait.

 

Not to mention the pointless official bug and error reporting system with the automated "Thanks for submitting but we get too many reports, but rest assured your concern may or may not get looked at, and by the way we're closing this ticket" responses.

Or the feedback threads where official responses can be spotty, or just "we already have a ticket logged for this"

It's all just so damn disheartening

 

I don’t even know why DTG bother going through the motions with the feedback threads, basically nothing ever gets fixed anyway so why even bother, unless they want to appear like they huge a damn without giving a damn.

 

Not to mention the infamous, “Passed to Engineering.” “Engineering” probably being some outsourced hacker in Mumbai or Beijing doing TSW coding in between Bitcoin surfing.

 

Right? I'm honestly getting to the point where I'm genuinely convinced that no one from DTG actually play tests (especially console) builds prior to release either.

Look at all the preview streams we've had just prior to release days where there's been surprises of bugs and quality issues. It's one thing for bugs here and there to slip through, I get it, that happens and nobody's perfect, but the fact that all of these feedback threads get pages and pages of bug reports is pretty telling that this accelerated release cycle of both base game and DLC is deeply flawed.

Rushing product through quality checks, hyping it up to build excitement, and then charging full price for it is an excellent strategy to make profit and gain an initial return on investment, but long term only sows seeds of mistrust and discontent amongst the player base who will eventually resent having to pay for the rights to essentially beta test and then for the most part be ignored for those efforts. With the release of 7 I think we're really starting to see the effects of this poor business practice, with many folks like myself refusing to even install the free starter pack.

I've been a loyal customer since Heavy Haul, but I also need to protect my own interests and refuse to invest more of my hard-earned income into a flawed product developed by a company where more marketing has been dumped into it than actual care and attention to detail.

 

"We were unable to recreate this bug" Do you want me to tell you what I've got installed on my XBox and my external hard drive to help with this?

 

I remember LondonMidland (a very well respected member of the community) saying many years ago that beta testers actually unearth many bugs during their time with any given addon, but Dovetail Games only prioritise a specific few to be fixed prior to release....with the rest placed on a post-launch pile of things to do at a later date.
I get that because anything non-essential isn't exactly gameplay impacting and can be left for a later date, but of late it kinda looks like even those essential fixes aren't being properly addressed prior to launch...and that's not ok.

I sometimes get the impression that Dovetail Games have elevated themselves to such high levels of self-importance and blind ignorance that they genuinely believe it matters not one jot what level of quality they release their products in because folk will always worship the very ground they stand on and buy whatever is placed in front of them. Good luck with that philosophy!!

 

And then it's the beta testers who get it in the neck as people think they're the ones not doing their job.

 

At one point I might have counted myself amongst those, despite my occasional (!) grumbling. But, no more. I resisted the urge to splash £58 (now £65) on the TSW7 three route bundle. No interest in Tadami. Class 70, really not that bothered. Incoming UK routes, not really lighting my fire - even JT, if they want to call it Cumbrian Coast but don't even include most of the route along said coast, it can wait for a sale.

 

That is correct...and the reason why I personally won't ever lay blame at the feet of beta testers. They do their bit (seemingly) very well and aren't responsible for what eventually goes out the door....that bit is entirely at the discretion of Dovetail Games.
Oh and no, I'm not a beta tester

Yes, I know. Page 1 of the "enough is enough" thread is quite revealing
But nobody knew the implications of their actions back then (I too thought the only way was up during the TSW3/4 era) so it's hardly anyone's fault that attitudes have changed over the proceeding years.

 

I’d already had that feeling back in the days of TSW 5 and 6.
It was a bit less of an issue with TSW 5, but what DTG got up to in TSW 6 really opened my eyes.

You can see for yourself what DTG has done with TSW 7.
Did DTG really think they could release a game like TSW 7?
And the patches so far have all just been small plasters on the big wounds that TSW 7 has.
And then DTG really made their biggest mistake with the Tadami Line – allowing themselves to release it like that.

I hope that PC players now realise this too, and stop buying every DLC the moment it’s released.
Because DTG shouldn’t treat its customers like that.

 

Bit of a generalisation there. Just because PC players are lucky enough not to have the same blurry textures that many console players have, doesn't mean we all blindly buy every route at full price.

I certainly haven't, I judge per route based on its appeal to me, its quality from streams and how its developer approaches post-release updates.

 

Also moving threads about problems with their DLC people have paid good money for into the troubleshooting forum without even having the courtesy to even acknowledge or reply.

 

Vern I suspect you like me, are hoping for something with a bang! REPs/TCs/33s for example on a truncated Basingstoke to Weymouth route, with all the attaching and detaching, that sort of old school railway operation would get me interested again. Instead of a plethora of ultra modern stock and routes which are just press a button and go, and riddled with bugs for good measure

 

Their comms are abysmal, without doubt the worst I’ve ever seen in the gaming community

 

For a company that employs so many community managers... they are pretty appalling at managing community communications! Look no further than the failure to trigger the Monthly Mastery, we had a small note from Jan but no explanation as to what has gone wrong internally. And where is the player experience manager, or whatever the post is called, who was trotted out in the run up to TSW7? Talking to a small group of carefully hand picked, compliant customers I guess!

 

It never used to be like that though. Sam & Matt were great (good cop, bad cop) communicators on the streams and JD + Nat handled the forums very well during their particular stints.
The forums used to be a great place for all types of discussion but now they just seem to be a place where frustrations are allowed to be vented until they invariably burn out or until the cycle is temporarily suspended with the arrival of the next addon. Kinda depressing really.

 

It's amazing what you see DTG getting up to when you don't have short term memory loss.

 

And your point is? That was June and we’re now in October. And the issue I was referring to specifically was the absence of any information about the AWOL Monthly Mastery Mastery, until we asked.

 

There is so much of this kind of thing hanging over them now that there isn't really much more they can do than hide. I wasn't here in the beginning so I don't know if they were genuinely better or if nobody was keeping receipts and following up.

 

Disappointed, clicked on this thread hoping to hear DTG had apologised for TSW7, perhaps on the discord or somewhere, and had an update on fixes.

 

joffonon,
That’s not what I meant, as you’ve understood it. I probably should have phrased it that way.
I hope that every TSW customer will now take a closer look – including players who’ve been playing for a long time, but especially those who’ve bought every DLC so far.

 

I'll let you know when I see the pigs in the air and start feeling my feet getting a little chilly lol

 

Serious question here. But I see the same people making the same complaints and joining-in on any opportunity to kick the game's developers. Some of you have been complaining for multiple years. Why haven't you just stopped buying it and found something new, like Running Train or Sim Rail, to play?

*Caveat needed for all internet discourse in 2026.
At no point have I said the game is perfect. At no point have I said there aren't bugs, At no point have I said that the quality control is fine and I will admit that some DLC has been a disappointment. I'm in the "happy enough, hope it continues to improve" camp and it's obviously now better than TSC because I only return to that game for an occasional run around East Anglia (because TSW has ignored the area so far and, yes, that's the thing that infuriates me most about TSW).

Life really is too short to spend it doing something that causes so much anger. It really is.

 

We aren't paying for it anymore though are we? You can get the free version, that carries the same core engine and features that the paid versions do, so yes we stay around to hold Dovetail Games to account. If these forums go silent and people aren't complaining, then the game has died. There's potential in what DTG have created, however there ARE SOME SERIOUS QUALITY CONTROL issues with DTG at the moment. TSW 7 should be the last yearly version, it's clearly run it's course and needs a serious rebuild to fix itself, will we see it? Doubt it, but I will continue to be critical of the product and I'll be vocal about the issues.

 

I'll explain it as I see it. TSW was the only train simulator on consoles. Until TSW4, the simulator worked well. Then came the fifth part and the blurry textures. The development of this game remained in place and the list of bugs reached an infinite length. I have 100+ DLC, I left DTG a lot of money. Then don't be surprised if I'm angry because they turned my favorite simulator into an unusable piece of software. The blurry textures are now the biggest problem with this game on consoles. I've been waiting for two years for a fix for the blurry textures. The release of TSW7 was the worst release of this game series. Just a bunch of bugs.

 

The latter. Plenty of horror stories about TSC.

 

Look, nobody likes droning on about the same old stuff year in, year out...but the fact of the matter remains that people are doing so because very little has changed over that period in order for them to change their attitudes towards TSW. Nobody expects a bug-free game, a flawless product or even world beating addons - all they want is Dovetail Games to publish content to a good standard....or in the case of consoles, publish content that is at the very least fit for purpose.
It's not a huge ask, you know and I'm really struggling to see why you should take exception to people who simply want a level of quality that aligns with the prices they are paying.

 

Sorry, but all users have the right to express their honest opinions about a poor-quality TSW and also about the DLCs.

After all, what has DTG done since TSW 5 to fix the blurry textures on consoles? DTG has done absolutely nothing.
Should we congratulate DTG on the fact that the signals never work properly on any German route, and that you get emergency braking on many German routes even though it’s completely illogical at those points, or should we say thank you for the fact that on most German routes the magnets are in the wrong place, or are located where there aren’t actually any?

And what did DTG come up with for TSW 7?
Lots of people bought the Deluxe Edition, and what did they get?
A TSW 7 with a completely broken menu that all users hate because it’s simply been done completely wrong. On consoles, since TSW 7, some gamepads no longer work the same way as they did in TSW 6 – why on earth did DTG change that?
DTG has added new features in TSW 5, 6 and 7, which would be great if these new features actually worked properly. No, even features from TSW 5 still don’t work properly to this day, and – just like with TSW 6 – they’ve never been further developed so that they would work. And yet we’ve always been shovelling money down DTG’s arse for this.

There are loads of bugs in so many DLCs that need fixing, but DTG has never fixed them, and DTG won’t be fixing these bugs in older tracks either. DTG also charges everyone for the DLCs, and have they fixed all the game-breaking bugs in the DLCs? No, DTG hasn’t.

If I buy two TSW DLCs, I’d rather spend that money on the GTA 6 Ultimate Edition, because with GTA 6 I can be sure I’ll be able to play for two years without all these major bugs.

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]

 

[EDIT - Jan - Quarrelsome]