New Jt Route Cumbrian Coast: Carlisle - Whitehaven From Just Trains

I think we had this discussion before about the 108 vs the 104 and what links from the WCML to Manchester.
I don't know the area well enough (esp in the 1980s) to say what would work for a coherent route to link them, but on the ECML side I've suggested how to do the Petersborough/Leeds/York section. Not that they need my two cents, but we are guessing what would make sense for them to do, so as a wild guess I think that corridor to York would work well for JT to develop. Given that the NTP just got some work and Airedale just came out from Leeds, it makes a lot of sense...plus the Kings Cross moving in to connect the south of the existing ECML route.
Not to mention the opportunity for massive layering if they introduce the Class 25, the Class 56/60 or some other period stock along the way that creates a nice interconnected "80s" network.

 

I think the biggest problem with Tyne Valley - which I would still love to see in BR era - is the relatively sparse train service in the 80’s. Generally only every two hours west of Hexham. And while the Carlisle 1974 SIAM traffic simulation has lots of freight across the route, by the 80’s this had dwindled a bit. And if JT are now gibbing at going on from Whitehaven just to Ravenglass let alone Barrow, are they going to quail at 60 miles and the Newcastle conurbation?

 

I've no affection for the Class 25. To my eyes it's a rather functional-looking loco I probably wouldn't drive in TSW.

Probably because we love the trains we grew up with and Sulzer Type 2s were an incredibly rare sight at the southern end of Eastern Region and in the South East in general (Willesden had some but I had no need to use the LMR) but also because we had the far superior Brush Type 2, the Class 31, which was our all-purpose loco type out here in the TSW black hole of East Anglia.

 

Crewe to Holyhead as well would be my guess, 1986 setting. The class 25 as a new build with a refreshed 40 and Mark 1 stock.

The 108 and 101 could work the locals, as could the 142.

I think the Freightliner terminal at Holyhead was still in use as well.

 

I said this on the Crewe-Preston thread but this would be a day one purchase for me as it just ticks every single box for a good route IMHO.....



Hope Valley Sheffield to Manchester would be a cracking route for JT to do in the same mid to late 80s period.

Busy passenger stations each end with AI traffic handled easily by existing stock (45,47, MK2 coffins,101,108, HST, 86, 87, MK3s) Fast through, and slow stopping passenger services, Through freight services, Freight services branching off to Peak Forest, Freight services to/from Earles Sidings yard on the route, Stunning scenery and also the 3.5 mile long Totley Tunnel to drive through. Add to that some good inclines out of Sheffield for a bit of thrash.

Services on the route itself could be handled by the 101, 108 and 142, through passenger services by the 40, 45 and 47 and freight by the 20, 31, 37, 40, 45 & 47. New stock items included with the route could be a 25 and a remodelled 31 as a 31/4 with a couple of new mk2a/b/c BSO and BFK coaches and new freight vehicles could be 4 wheel tipplers for stone workings and maybe some VAA/VBA vans and OBA open railfreight wagons.

 

I would love to see the north east set in 1986 as many of the since demolished yards and depots were still around at the time. These include Gateshead TMD and Blyth Cambois TMD and not to mention all the other yards and stabling points still around at the time. Maybe a Darlington to Newcastle route plus the branches to Lynemouth power station, Blyth, Tyne dock, willington quay and the freight diversion via leamside would be good with a valenta HST, a class 56 and a 101 for the local runs.

 

I think Just Trains will want to make something that ties in with either the Class 86 or 87 next. They did say the Class 86 would be used in future JT releases (plural).

 

Well my first choice for a Sulzer Type 2 would of course be a Class 26, but unless we get something north, west or south of Inverness in an appropriate era, not much chance I fear.

 

Link is up on Steam, along with a few other DLC. Hopefully the DLC is not too far off, hopefully within the next month?

https://store.steampowered.com/app/...itehaven_Route_AddOn/?curator_clanid=46276966

 

These images look great!!!

 

Really looking forward to this more and more! IIRC I think they said they're just working on the gameplay side of things on the roadmap and the scenery was done. It looks absolutely beautiful!

I'm hoping this route will run a little smoother than Crewe - Preston as I'm guessing the timetable will be much lighter? I'm looking forward to a bit more of a slow paced jaunt through some beautiful scenery compared to the WCML! I loved BPO for that reason!

 

Really hope we get a NSE route in season of reveals.

 

galaxies show

 

To be a bit pedantic, I'm not sure about Parton there - too many trees (not sure there should be any, really) and maybe even buildings. Perhaps I'm misremembering the place from childhood...

 

I remember stepping off a 153 at Parton back in 2015 to spend the day filming the 37s working their way along the coast (it's a great location for that with them winding their way along the sea wall) and we asked a local chap "are there any pubs?" because the three of us in our crew drink like squaddies, we were told "are there are three pubs here" - what the demented bar-steward didn't mention was one had been converted to a house, another closed down sometime in the 1990s no doubt with the owner still sitting dead on a bar-stool and that the third no longer had a roof and was full of sand having been taken by a storm some time in the 1970s... Me and Kev ended up walking to Whitehaven to a petrol station to pick up some tinnies so we had something to drink on the beach... Happy days

 

I remember there was three, maybe four in 2001, as I took my 87 year old granddad on his last night out round them! Even at that age, he managed a pint in each before my mam arrived to drive him back up the hill to home. Think there was the Lowther Arms, Beachcomber and the Station - maybe the Ship too.

 

A lot of the enthusiasts used to go the Prince of Wales in Foxfield which has some odd opening hours, Lancaster or Carlisle for the more usual big pub chains or tap room type places.

 

I think a campaign for a 25 is in order. It worked with the Buffets!!

 

Gets my vote though preferably not the 25/3 variant as I think aesthetically the ones with the high centre nose look better.

 

I generally run that in game for early diesel runs since it's very similar to the Class 25 which we don't have. The two are contemporaries and very similar in performance.

 

Hopefully both variants with JT's usual attention to detail.

 

Does anyone know if the 25/0, /1 and /2s were still used by 1986, because if so it would be good if we could get those along with the /3 and /9s, if the 25 would ever come to the game. From the point of JT if they were ever to model a 25 they would have to do a /9 because they were based at kingmoor (Preston-Carlisle route) and a /3 because they were based at Crewe (Crewe-Preston route) so that we could make the most of the 25 if it comes (which I think is likely).

 

The 25/9's were renumbered from the remaining 25/3's in 85/86. There were about a dozen 25/3's remaining in service and they became 25/9's.

 

Screenshot look amazing. Even though I'd prefer a bit more of this era east of the Pennines, 100% day one purchase for me to support the JT team in driving the standards up. Can't wait to see the preview videos.

 

i had 63 in mind, however the route itself didn't change much you are right on that. even the loco side didn't change much with steam up until 1968 on the freight. which some what contradicts what i have been saying the locos mid 50s on the londons would of been jubs or black 5s, late 50s they would of been royal scotts or britannias until 60-62 when the peaks took over on most locals and London's. just need them in green.

 

ive thought the same however its an interesting one on how far you go with it. if its pre 86 then the hazel grove chord wasn't in by then so no route via stockport and no winsor link so any expresses came via victoria.
id go mid 70s. it would be via new mills romiley then bredbury then its how far down you go round to peak forest and buxton considering you had buxton TMD as the main point of traction for the limestone traffic in the area then the line out to hindlow. its all been done by JT in TSC.

the rolling stock is all there (bar a CLASS 25) and whilst there was very little in the way of though expresses (the Harwich boat train would come round and join at ashburys) the local Sheffield's were a right mix of loco hauled stock and dmus, there are photos out there of 31s on 4 mk1s doing the locals, plus 124s you then have the new mills and marple services. the freight is the big one as whilst there is an end point in PF and earles for traffic coming on to the route everything starting from there or any though freight would end at sheffield totley south curve new mills (off the freight line, now the main to stockport) guide bridge or ashburys, ie no natural end point.

if you added the hyde loop via guide bridge (or both). the latter would give a good base start for a woodhead route, including sheffield midland as the huddersfield service still went down that way from penistone and reversed into midland until 83.
but the glossops on the hyde loop would have to be done with dmus as you would be missing the 506 and the class 76.

 

I think there were very few examples of the original design 25s left by 1986 - Carlisle had the 25/9s and there were a fair few of the second design at the start of the year, but the OGs were pretty much history IIRC.

 

Springs Branch had a load of 25s through 1985, though they were culled en-masse through the year and into 1986. I am sure they were /1 / 2 /3s but would have to dig out my books to check.

EDIT: I've not been able to start rooting around for my books but thought I'd share the Derby Sulzers website which has a comprehensive list of what was based where and when things were withdrawn. Sadly I'm too tired to read through it and list things out as it's been a long day in the not-so-friendly-skies and I'm ready for bed, or a one way trip to Booths :/

https://www.derbysulzers.com/Pic.html

 

I take it back - looks like 034,035,037,057-059 from the 25/0 batch made it through to 1987, and of the Darlington 25/2s 244 made it to 1987 and 230 lasted until August 86 (according to CJM’s Loco Directory, anyhow). Not sure 8 locos would be worth their while, but right now any 25 at all would be a big win in my book!

TBH the non-gangway model was so much more prevalent around Workington in my day anyhow. Only the local celeb (25041) was the regular gangwayed version IIRC.

 

Why aren't JT building the route to Barrow?

Carlisle to Whitehaven - 35 miles
Carlisle to Barrow - 55 miles

 

Presumably in great part because of the run time, Whitehaven-Carlisle is just over an hour (TSW's "target") while Barrow-Carlisle must be more than two.

Also, many (or all?) sevices from Carlisle terminate at Whitehaven so they're end-to-end runs.

As it's all rural scenery I don't think length itself/route size would have been the main reason not to go to Barrow.

 

Be nice if they squared the circle and done Carnforth to Whitehaven.

 

Whitehaven-Barrow is a slow run with not a lot of varied traffic and a pretty quiet timetable - scenic, but personally not something I’d want to drive much - same sort of problem as the Settle-Carlisle line in terms of gameplay. Nice IRL but not something I’d personally want to sit in front of a PC/console for. YMMV of course.

 

Agreed. Not every bit of rails in the UK need to be done. It needs to be worth the effort for the creator and the audience. I would not pay twice as much for another 20 miles of the same thing. An hour of nice scenic rural driving is enough to get a good "feel" for the area.

Adding every single branch for every single line can be detrimental in that it's often ignored by many players (too little traffic), raises cost and is a hit to performance. The run to Whitehaven would be plenty of gameplay.