Agree it's bit disappointing we're still not getting an 800. I do at least hope the 801/1 is changed compared to Peterborough-Doncaster and Wharfdale ones so it's an actual 801/1 and not just a five car 801/2. The differences are represented properly on the Riviera 802s.
Sounds fairly impressive so far! If the 387/1 is done by Liam we are in for a real treat there. This is certainly a big project, so hopefully it can be pulled off... Alot of pressure on ATS here, as this is probably and genuinely one of the most requested UK routes. MAC had it's hiccups, but is now a very good route, aside from it's small size. If ATS have learned all the lessons from this and use them on KXP, they really are going to have created something special. The Class 700 will also finally have somewhere to stretch its legs on a dedicated route! There is potential for additional Loco DLCs later down the line with this route too... So I'm not really finding much criticism myself where the rolling stock in concerned. Every piece of rolling stock that needs to be there exists already (within reason), and any rolling stock that isn't there can potentially be added in future (such as a 91 or the 800 variant of the IET). Wishing ATS and the team all the best and good luck with pulling off such a mammoth task of a route and it must be a tricky one also having lots of community anticipation adding to that pressure!
i really hope so, but not having it would be a prime example of the corner-cutting we’ve become accustomed to over the years
Given the length of the route currently under construction, it already represents a significant amount of work. It would be nice to at least have a new train, such as a Class 91 or a 717, specially since the description of the included content mentions "and more," leaving that possibility open. I believe what is being offered is quite reasonable; including everything that currently operates on this route would be an immense undertaking and would drive the price up significantly. Down the line, there will likely be DLCs released to supplement this route.
Totally agree, it's a bigger project that Just Trains' Class 86/2 / Mk2 D-F pack as a Class 91 shares fewer features with the 90, the Mk4s are unique and there's the DVT. I'd be happy to pay £30 if it comes with a new timetable for Doncaster to Peterborough and layers as AI at Leeds and maybe Edinburgh (I know they're very rare there but....variety and all that). Anyway; Pros; *It's the LNER, the ECML, the king of all main line routes. *Eastern Region content count has started to creep up again in 2026. Nearly to the point that I'm feeling bad for Wales and Scotland. *One of my all time favourite TSC routes coming to TSW. *Driving 700s at 100mph. *More reasons to buy the Class 387 pack as I'm pretty sure Liam will be happy to make one with a GN livery and interior. *It gives more reason to drive the other ECML section. *It looks great in the photos. ATS, despite their early teething troubles with TSW, do make excellent content in TSC. *Not a Class 350 or Class 390 in sight at last. I jest, the 390 is a far more refined train than the IETs. Cons; *The metro services! I didn't expect Moorgate but it's going to be odd not having the 313s or 717s (are those services destined always to have palindromic EMU class numbers?) If there are no metro trains, then will the metro services be represented at all? I hope they are but, without the right units, it'll be weird. *The era it's set in. It presents a bit of a disappointing roster. 2015/6 and we could have had 313s on the locals, 365s and a mix of HSTs and IETs without needing anything other than a bit of a modification to existing TSW traction. *This means I'll have to grovel to someone in the modding community to see if they'll make an Emirates Stadium 2026 mod. With the new artwork and "Champions 25/26" banners over every available surface. *In fact a big "con" could be a need to write a very stiff letter to Alan Thompson if he's not put the Emirates Stadium in there at all. Up the Gunners er I mean East Coast Main Line South.
Looks great, looking forward to this, but please get the signalling correct from the start (approach control) - MAC was almost perfect but needed a few signals tweaking .... seems to take an age to sort out in TSW.
Hopefully later down the line we do get a 365 along with a backdated timetable. Mid to late 2010s provides great opportunities. Either it can be set during the time of FCC or GN, GN would probably be easier to do but I have to say I do prefer the FCC livery on the 365s. I'm still very much looking forward to this route!!!
Probably because it's harder to get reference for older content and a lot of people like the IETs, including me. I love a good modern route and I'm sure a lot of others are too!
Bs for the first part, if you actually look there’s a ton of material for pretty much anything 1990s onwards, books, magazines, dvds, historical documents and much more no comment on the second part
Personally, I'd be open both to an 225 or 800 (easy to made, modifying the existing 801) The more units would bring in, the better would be for this incredible stretch
Yes, but it's noticeable that there are no retro routes anywhere in the South East of Britain. By comparison, Northern Britain has eight BR era routes and the South West will soon have two. I love new and I love traction going as far back as the 1970s too. I'd just like to see a bit more parity across the board. Likewise if I lived up north of the M62 and loved new traction and modern routes, I'd be equally peeved until the Leeds route came out. Even the original ECML route stopped just short of the M62. Conspiracy?
The East Coast Main Line, even today, contains so much variety. The fact that nothing new was provided disappoints me quite a lot given the opportunities. Why not include the 91 + Mk4s, probably the most requested train? Why not include a Deltic for main line railtours? Why not include a 717? While not my favourite EMU by any stretch of the imagination, most of the stations at the bottom end of the line will have about 0 services without it, unless those services are faked with the 387.
I think the 91 and 717 will come. As I've said above the Intercity 225 project would be very involved. It's not just a loco but a completely new type of coaching stock plus a working DVT at the other end. It would represent a significant amount of work and therefore, like the Class 86, justifies a separate DLC covering both sections of the ECML. The 717 is probably the worst of all worlds; drab (looking tired already) interiors, uncomfortable, slow and a very ugly train up front with the dullest livery on the network down the sides. Limited to only one route too. Really not the sort of DLC release to get the pulse racing. I've seen a 3d model of one a few years back but I have no idea if that was intended for TSC or TSW. Unless there are plans to expand this route at the southern end then I can understand any reluctance to make one, but it'll still feel a bit weird without them.
If I was a third party, would I heck include the IC225 in a route if I could help it, and have it as a separate thing, given how popular a suggestion it is - it's stacks of money just sitting there, plus it allows resources to be concentrated.
it's still.going to be a lot easier to gather material for modern day stuff. I'm personally glad it's IETs and not some old rustbuckets ngl. But again, just my opinion.
Apparently ATS have said there is no plan for a 91…think it was in response to a question on their FB page (sorry, I should post the source, I know). I admit it’s a huge project to do, but disappointed to say the least if it’s true. *EDIT - see below*
Interesting that the 801 is getting new sounds as I don't think it sounds too bad in the game right now. I definitely hope it will be closer in quality to the 805 than the 90. Judging by the latter though, I can't help but be fairly sceptical about any new sounds from ATS. One can hope that they've learned some lessons since the 90 at least.
As much as I like the sound of the Class 91, that wasn't the selling point to me of this route... Developing ECMLS, which is probably the most requested UK routes is a challenge in itself and I wish ATS every bit of luck and success with the challenges of developing it. I think unfortunately we are all a bit guilty of sometimes placing expectations when there was no mention of them (the 91 in this case) in the first place and then get disappointed when it doesn't come to fruition, but only have ourselves to blame... (even I was guilty of adding to such things by wondering why the PIS board was covered in this very thread alone and adding to the 91 possibility hype). But I think it would be completely unfair for anyone to judge the route in a negative light just because the 91 has been ruled out and not being developed. At the end of the day we will have the 801s, 387s, & 700 as the minimum which covers pretty much everything. Whatever you want to say about the rolling stock you still have to acknowledge that's a fair amount of rolling stock to be used in the route and is exactly what is used in real life (the only exception would be the 717)... My only personal criticism is the decision not to make a Class 800 which might of bulked out the IET realism in the game and for the route. But never say never, there are always opportunities for a post release DLC either by ATS or someone else. Personally I think a preserved Deltic DLC would be brilliant for this route as a separate DLC. I'm just happy we are finally getting ECMLS produced by a good third party (yes they've had their hiccups with the Class 90 I'm not naive) but overall I think ATS are a passionate developer. This route looks really exciting as it is... Plenty of potential and I'm happy it's finally coming to TSW! In the past we'd probably have only got Kings Cross to Stevenage... And now we are getting the entire route to Peterborough just like it's TSC counterpart. And again, I look forward to and am excited either way!
Honestly I'm not too worried about the rolling stock at this point, I just really hope the route itself is well made without any major issues. I would like to remind everyone that Manchester Airport Commuter still has some unresolved issues, like the continuing lack of track shadows (even though they were mentioned in some patch notes at one point), some weird lighting/light baking, especially on Stockport viaduct, and the weird catenary at Heaton Chapel that's way too high up and makes pantographs stretch way too high. Now on such an important route as ECML South, such issues would be hard to look past. If the route is well-made, other developers or ATA themselves can always come along and create new timetables, if it isn't, that drags down anything that comes afterwards. (Also, I would really hate to see a Class 91 made that's a rushed job)
Would've liked this to be kings cross to Peterborough/Cambridge and even add the hertford loop, would add endless services to play maybe they'll do an extension like they've done for the overground lines
It's not unusual for small creative businesses to be primarily a group of self-employed contractors in the same way that many big companies are primarily managing sub-contractors.
Have a look how detailed and well-constructed ATS routes are and you’ll realise the odd branch here and there as an addition could be months of extra work. There’s plenty of pressure (myself admittedly included) for a 225, so I wouldn’t hold your breath for Cambridge or the Hertford Loop!
What's the difference to what I said? Are you a professional hair-splitter? Are you employed as such or do you do contract work for customers? A lot of people in media/TV/radio/games developers/publishers are freelance/self-employed and do ad-hoc contract work. In fact, only last weekend a friend was saying it's the norm in the construction industry, particularly specialist jobs. It gives the individual freedom to work when and on what they like and it absolves the company of the responsibilities/regular costs of having "employees" on the books. This is perfectly normal. It makes no difference how ATS gets the work done and by whom, the point I was making is that the stuff released under the ATS brand controlled by Alan, on TSC, is good. My wife is a becoming a contractor in that personal and business customers will commission her for the product she makes, they pay her via invoice. But the shops selling it won't just stick it in the window and price it up. Like Alan at ATS, the product will be checked before it's released under the brand they own.
In addition, the pantograph on the 801 is the wrong way round, it should be raised at the back, not the front
My point is that quality will vary with different teams unless ATS exercises a very firm hand (which I'm not sure they have).
Well, you're free to speculate on that, my experience taking all releases across ten years of ATS TSC content has been mostly very good even recent releases like the modern Wherry Lines. I think the biggest issue has been with two TSW releases, their first route and their first traction. My take (obviously prior to driving their new route) is that there have been problems tackling a new sim (for them), a new editor and (this is my speculation) working to tighter release schedules unlike their TSC content that's basically released when its released.
I just want to know what happened to the Wherry Lines for TSW after the guy working on them in the editor stopped after hearing rumours about them being done officially. That was a while ago now, and since then nothing...
Alan has confirmed on Facebook that it will "only" include the actual line from Kings Cross to Peterborough. They would have liked to have included St. Pancras for Thameslink services, but it did not happen because of ETCS.
I say this as its my local line and I work at a Hertford Loop station, so would've been nice, let me be hopeful
There's probably a lot of routes being worked on that we don't officially know about. I'd love to see behind the scenes at DTG. Someone from there might have said in a stream at some point but it wouldn't surprise me if it can take 12-18 months from when research starts to when a route is announced on the Roadmap. Obviously the size of the route will have a big effect on the length of the development time. But I reckon there's a good dozen UK routes that are somewhere between the "proposal under consideration" by DTG stage and the point at which it's ready to be announced on the Roadmap. For all we know Wherry Lines could be one of those routes that's announced out of the blue. As for who could be making it, with so many new UK DLCs on the Roadmap that seem close to being released, it really could be any of them. We can rule out DTG I think.
Liam (of DTG and Grump Dog fame!) said on Discord he has been working on his own route since 2024, it has just been sidelined numerous times for other projects that took priority. So that shows how long it can take and that route isn't even announced yet. Wild speculation time, could that be Wherry Lines!
