Loco Freightliner Br Class 70 - Feedback Thread

posted this in another thread but adding it here as well:

The low speed physics in this thing seem way off, I'm trying to do service 6M22 Part one on the Airdale & Wharfdale route and I can't even make it up the incline at notch 8, the train grounds to a halt and starts rolling backwards

 

Whilst I don’t feel it’s necessary to be as negative as some are being on here, I did spend a long time trying to work out why the AWS was not working (no sound PS5). Sadly I think this just points towards DTG doing little to no testing on console again.

 

The whole thing looks like a Dog's Dinner, with so many glaring visual errors with wrong angles / shapes, and heights.

 

Just reinforces my stance, never ever buy day 1.

 

It interesting how none of these ‘visual errors’ were brought up prior to release. Seems like there are some individuals just desperate to tell everyone “they are getting a refund”.

It’s £15, get over it.

 

If everyone had your approach, we’d have no Train Sim World, let alone a cheap dlc.

 

How so? They make the same money if I wait and buy 5 days days after it's released once I can read feedback.

It cetainly does less harm than people who buy and refund frequently.

 

I had the same issue on 6M37 notch 8 out of Rylestone just to crawl out of Rylestone with 1700tons

 

If literally no one bought it for 5 days, the product would cease to exist. At least provide some constructive feedback instead of suggesting everyone should hold off ever buying something on the first day it’s released.

 

Xbox series X
WCML Trent-valley
The headlights seem to either not work or flicker.
The AWS is very quiet.
The audio for the horn seems to be that when you sound the high tone it seems to do both at the same time or that the audio isn't that great.

 

Tbf, People do that and DTG defenders call it being overly negative...

 

I think it’s fair to provide valuable feedback, that’s what this whole thread is about.

I just don’t think it’s necessary to tell everyone you’re getting a refund

 

So if they don't sell on day 1 they will lose money.

Why? do they stop counting sales after day 1?

I'm pretty sure they would budget products more by quarterly sales and not just day 1 sales.

Maybe put out a better product consistantly instead of these untested releases.

 

I suppose to be fair the warning signs were there on the streams - the excessive braking and the ponderous pullaway but you think, maybe that it won't be that bad once you get your hands on it. Like I say, they seduced us with the sounds and publicity blurb. And sorry, but £15 isn't cheap for this type of stuff and, frankly, I'm coming round to the point of view if the 3P's and DTG are so incompetent as to allow this sort of stuff out the door at these prices (and don't forget hot on the heels of the less than stellar Tadami) maybe it's time for DTG to call it a day. After all, most of us already have enough content to last more than a lifetime and for me the Class 70 has been the final lesson.

That's not negativity, just how I feel about this now shambles of a game.

 

This loco also suffers sound popping as well not all the time but its there.

 

On Xbox series X. Started the Crowd of 70's scenario last night and saved the game with all safety systems active at Rugby. When I loaded the game up the vigilance was still active but the sound had stopped and checking in the switches section the switch for the vigilance was off despite vigilance still being active. AWS/TPWS was unaffected

 

I agree that DTG’s quality control is absolutely appalling. I guess everyone has a different perspective when it comes to what represents value for money.

Having played Train Sim Classic 20 years ago, what we have now with TSW is incredible really. That doesn’t give DTG a free pass, but I can deal with the minor issues as long as the product hits a good standard.

 

Empty Bins Galore.
MML Scenario.

Asks for brakes to be Cut-Out which they have, and save applied, but stuck from this point.

I have to say the scenario marker placements are the worst I have seen in any TSW DLC.

 

Am very impressed with the manual https://shared.fastly.steamstatic.c...090b429/BRClass70_Manual_V03.pdf?t=1792052801

 

I posted about this earlier in the thread. If it’s the cab you’re shutting down - cut out > save > exit. If it’s the cab you’re starting up - cut in, cut out, cut in > save > exit.

the prompt for setting a cab up is wrong. The brakes will already be cut out when you need them cut in. You need to trigger a cut out before you cut in so the objective is met! Hope this helps

 

I did set up the train correctly, yes, with brakes cut in and lead but it still puts out only around 100 amps in notch 8

 

The light issue appears different on different routes on XSX. MML they work fine, Airedale & Wharfedale they don’t work at all, WCML Birmingham- Crewe they flicker

 

I'm on the Epic Games PC version and have seen the lights not working a couple of times. As others have reported they illuminate the ground but the lights themselves are not on. It was a Midland Mainline service where it happened. I quit and returned to the timetable and re-selected the service and started it again to get the lights to work. It seems to be random, I gave it a try (after removing all MODs) and just kept restarting the service from the timetable list and it took a couple tries to reproduce it again. If it matters the specific service was "6D59 Humberstone Sidings to Chaddesden Sidings 15:14".

DW

 

PC Steam: Mixed multiple working between the Class 70 and Class 66 doesn't work. Some double-headed timetable services spawn a Class 70 + Class 66 formation, but only the leading Class 70 provides power.

 

Xbox For PC

I made a thread about this issue I am going to mention now but dont think it helped so I’ll put it here.

I downloaded some colas liveries for the 70 through creators club but they don’t appear in the CC tab when picking your train for a route.

all my settings are good, everything how it should so I’m not sure what the issue is, if anyone can help? Or if it’s a core issue?

I tried training centre and the liveries popped up when selecting the 70 but on any other route? No no! Seen a couple of people have the same issue.

 

Most aren't saying that though.

But. It does send a message to the devs that they're not just unhappy, but unwilling to fund the poor quality. It is helpful to the devs (and especially the publisher) to know why they've just lost £15 - £33

 

Huh its almost like pre-release they could choose the angles they showed and now we have access we can properly scrutinize it, funny that.

 

I am loving the loc, but there are things that bother me about it

Mainly, I hate how a lot of things are linked in the 2 cabs. Mainly the screens. If you adjust the brightness or turn off say, the left screen, that does the same on the other cab.
I doubt this is realistic behavior. So I'd personally prefer to see this detached.

But not just the screens, it's also some of the physical switches. Particularly Gen Field, Engine Run and the handbrake that are mirrored, despite them being physical switches.

Other than that, head and tail lights are prone to bugging and being poorly or not visible at all despite the light effect itself happening.

Also, for some reason when switching cabs I might find myself with the brakes already cut-in? Sometimes the headlights too. But that might be more a TSW issue than a Class 70 one.

Lastly, but that's just personal preference, not a bug, but I do find the exhaust fumes to be excessive.
Same with how I'd personally wish the throttle was a bit more sensitive for keyboard.

But, still loving it.

 

Physics seems to be becoming another weak point for DTG. There are trains with too much rolling resistance (both Dutch trains which carried into the 331 on Leeds route), trains with awfully strong brakes (331 on Leeds route, Koploper on Dutch route, now Class 70), and then there are trains that have a really "off" feeling when driving, such as the BR412.

It's really worrying that these are all mostly new releases too. Have DTG lost some staff, or brought on people who don't really have a good feel for these sort of things? Please sort this out DTG.

 

It does make you wonder how efficient Simugraph is at doing the job, compared to hand written scripts as in TSC, particularly from anyone not deeply au fait with how the system works. Though in fairness, excessive train braking has been a thing going back to NTP with the 45 and 47, where fine control could only be achieved using the straight loco brake. And who can forget the 380, superb model and sounds but the slightest touch of brake still puts you through the windscreen, even after they so called patched it.

So I think you may be right… a lack of people with both the knowledge of train physics and how to reflect it accurately in Simugraph.

I really wanted to like and embrace the 70 and apologies if I come over as negative but it is just sheer frustration and disappointment that once again we are let down. And still no-one from AABS has the courtesy to come on here and confirm or deny which of the concerns are valid.

 

Thank You

 

I'm not sure it's inherently Simugraph, as there are a few trains that have a really good "feel". The 375 on Medway Valley for example, the 390 seems pretty good, there are a good number of German trains that also "feel" like they're a good way to a realistic representation.

I feel DTG have next to no current drivers on their testing team, and a good portion of the testing team signed up just to get early access (I saw the same while being an alpha+beta tester with Flight Sim Labs on their A320).

 

Agreed. I've been having a play around with the 66's recently and have been a bit disappointed with the braking 'feel', however weirdly enough there are some instances where the 66 and it's wagons feels good, for example, aggregates in Medway Valley - very smooth, appropriate braking, no grabbing and reasonable release times. Now whether this is due to Firefly or Skyhook tweaking the physics I don't know. Anyway, I often find myself going back to Run8 for the ultimate driving feel.
It also crosses my mind that some of these teams may actually start creating their own sim, from scratch. I'm a bit surprised this hasn't happened yet. Look at Running Train for example, took a while to release, but it was only 1 person apparently. I would love to see a team make a Run8 type sim based on UK freight, with Run8 style physics - not majorly fussed about graphics, as long as the physics and signalling etc was spot on.

 

Just reminding everyone that the container wagons (both the originals and the cargo line ones with the same brakes copied over) behave this way with the Class 66 while other wagon types do not. A tiny dab of brakes is enough to bring you to a screeching halt and they take a long time to release from even the smallest application. It may not be the loco at fault here. I don’t have the 70 myself to test it but the container wagons are probably a big contributing factor here. A while ago I was looking forward to the cargo line container wagons releasing because I was fed up of the brake physics on the originals but was dismayed to find the same brake physics were used there as well. There’s a similar issue (although the other way round, with weak brakes) with the coal wagons on Crewe-Preston that some players initially thought was the locos but the same locos work fine with other wagons. It may turn out that the loco has issues as well but don’t forget the big role the wagons play in how a train brakes.

 

To second what Stu has posted above, I've done a few experiments.

So, on the Airedale line I ran the 70 on the Hunslet to Ribblehead job with JNAs, train moved off from standing start in notch 4. The brakes worked perfectly during the run and I had plenty of opportunities to test them given the various gradients, long signal blocks and being stuck behind a stopper. Initial notch does very little, just gives them a slight rub as it should be but for proper effect one needs to go to the 40+ range - which also allows the loco to do it's regenerative braking too which sounds excellent.

On the MML - Did an engineering run with the shiny new box wagons, train moved off in notch 6, brakes were "iffy" seemed to be similar to the containers in that the initial notch seemed to do most of the work. Also did an oil tank run, moved off on notch 8 and had the same braking issues.

On the WCML Crewe-MK - Container run, needed to sit in notch 8 for a good 40+ seconds for the damned thing to move (even tried it on the downhill gradient at Nuneaton). This was with the brakes already off and the loco just sitting on the loco brake, same braking issues as reported elsewhere that they come on heavy and take ages to come off again. I also tested the train length theory by reloading the same diagram and splitting the rake halfway, same results for braking, the only difference was that it took around 20 seconds at notch 8 to move off.

If AABS can fix these two issues, the power and brakes, then we have an awesome locomotive. I honestly have really enjoyed driving it, even with the defective brakes, it'd just be nice to drive it properly

Oh and in the words of Colombo, there is just "one more thing" - there are no nameplates, I took 70004 for a spin earlier and it's missing it's "Coal Industry Society" nameplates. I assume the others are missing too.

 

Vern, the beta testers are people from this forum who joined the beta program. As far as I'm aware they haven't sought testers from anywhere else, although I agree that you do get the impression that it's tested by people who don't know how trains work or what's expected of DLC. I say "impression" as it could well be that the testers are providing feedback to DTG and that DTG are then choosing to ignore it and thinking "nah, that'll do". It could also be that they're involving the testers way too far down the line, for example a week or two before release when there's no time left to correct anything. In which case that needs to change. I suspect there will also be some testers who just consider beta testing to be a free early access program and who don't provide feedback, I don't know if DTG has a process to filter out those join the program but don't contribute.

 

Firstly, AABS really hasn’t built the model to look like the real thing.
Take a look at the first two pictures: in the first one, you can see in the middle of the locomotive that the frame is almost touching the tracks. And the components above in the middle don’t match the original either.




And then have a look at what the locomotive looks like for some people when it’s not running, and in the second picture you can see what’s supposed to be the smoke coming out of the exhaust.

 

Yep, they definitely need sorting, but will it destroy the timings on the timetables if they fix this? If so, they may not decide to fix. However, I think AI uses basic physics, so may not impact the timetables as much.
Also, I've been testing Skyhook's Aggregates wagons with the 66, they behave very nicely (braking wise), so at least we have some sort of reasonable freight experience. Will be interesting to see how those wagons operate with the 70 (don't have the 70 as of yet).

 

PC/Steam:
-Flickering head lights, some times.
- Driver Vigilance warning audio stopped working (in both internal and external camera) after reloading a save. This was tested multiple times, with the same result each time. This happened both when just exiting to the main menu and then reloading the save, and when exiting the game entirely, and then reloading the save. No audio. Very annoying on multi-hour runs.
- Just as others have pointed out several times before me, the brakes are very sensitive when applied, and slow to come off, and also, the train sometimes takes "forever" to get going from a standstill.

Other than this, I have thoroughly enjoyed my purchase so far, and will continue to do so for many hours to come. The locomotive looks fantastic, and sounds even better. I refuse to join the omg look at that bolt, or the slight misaligned angle of that plate, or any other little inconsistency with the real thing, it's all wrong crowd, I am refunding! Locomotive is a good and fairly true representation of the real thing with some minor differences from the real locomotive, as to be expected in a game replica. Not everything can be 100% true to the original. Anywho, a few niggles to sort out, and we might just have the best locomotive release so far. Well worth the 18 bucks I paid for it.

 

it will be good if we are able to manually insert the EOT/tail light device on the wascosa wagon

 

In terms of physics, I tried a 2900 ton oil train of MML, on a flat gradient, the train moved off at notch 5 and the brakes seemed ok. But a container run on Trent Valley I had to slam it into notch 8 and it still took ages to move, also on a flat and the minimum brake application seemed to slow down the train way too fast. The 66 and 90 both have trouble with those containers as well.

 

Anyone had problems layering C70 onto Glossop?

 

What do you mean problems its there and as jobs for me on xbox.

 

Why does this only layer into one off the Birmingham/Crewe timetables.

 

Looking back at this thread and all of the issues that have been mentioned with the 70, I do get the impression that maybe the 70 was “rushed” which is a shame. I could be wrong but with all the issues that have been mentioned which were at first not obvious but now very obvious, I do get the impression that it was either rushed or god knows.

what Vern said I agree with, i think the loco itself is very good and we needed something different but yet again, with what seems to be every release, its the consistency of bugs and issues that plague these releases and its getting to that point where you have to question “why aren’t beta testers seeing this”, “has this been tested” etc etc.

the 70 is still drivable for me which is good but just when you look at it and with the issues that have been stated, I feel sorry for the poor thing

 

I'm guessing either the mythical beta testers don't actually exist or the feedback they provide is completely ignored along with 99% of the feedback these feedback forums provide.

Don't get me wrong, I'm enjoying the 70 and don't regret buying it for a second, my questions are more for all the other obvious problems which come to light if anyone dares play for more than a few seconds either with a DLC release or the yearly upgrade which doesn't need to be a upgrade and results in more being broken than upgraded.

What exactly is happening at DTG? Do the mythical beta testers actually exist? Do they exist and their feedback is ignored and not passed up the chain until a livestream occurs and all of the problems come to light to the surprise and shock of the DTG staff performing the livestream?

Is anyone here actually on the mythical beta tester program or know of anyone who is? If so, has any feedback you've submitted been acknowledged and fixed prior to release?

 

Some strange LOD issues with the bodyside detailing.

 

Good grief. Don't know what's going on with the smoke but presumably it's similar to the lights in that they weren't tested on anything less than high / very high / epic settings.

Just found this official image which I hadn't seen before, you can see the obstacle deflector that's a foot further back than it should be and more noticeably, the kit below the frame that's basically sitting on the rails... What a mess

 

Hi, I do think that selecting the goods mode on the brakes should help with the unrealistic brakes physics. I couldn't find it at first but it's on the back wall of the cab near the tpws temp isolation. The incorrect amps is still definitely an issue since some services are impossible.

I also found a really shitty "solution" for the 6D37 service from Rylestone to Doncaster, which was to let the 2100 ton train roll back as far as I could to the buffer stops at the back, then start from there in notch 8 to gain momentum on the line before it got steep, but I did have to break the speed limit and contact the signaller while moving instead of stopping at the sign. So obviously this isn't really realistic I guess.

 

I’m sure someone posted in another thread that Class 4 container flats normally run on passenger brake timings, though don’t quote me on that.

The inability to get out of Rylstone once again highlights the complete lack of testing - maybe we can’t expect every single service to be hand played but any in a tricky situation should be. Though having to set back due to get a better start due to rubbish physics is nothing new… IIRC there was a run on Clinchfield in the snow where, due to DTG not setting up the banking comm feature, you had to roll back about 600 yards on to more level track to stand a chance of making it up the hill.