When Railworks NEXT is finished, TSW will probably have one more problem. Because with Railworks NEXT, the same thing is being done as with Omsi 2 and OpenOmsi. And if I look at these 2 pictures of Railworks NEXT now, and it’s not even finished yet, then the final result will look even better. Here is the forum link to this Railworks NEXT. https://railworks-austria.at/forum/index.php?thread/2686-railworks-next/ The first picture is already a bit older, and the second picture is from today.
To be honest I don't think that looks like much of an issue for TSW. If I understood everything correctly, it's basically TSC with a bit upgraded graphics. TSW's strengths lies in more than just pretty graphics.
Unfortunately, you are wrong there, because not only the graphics are changed, but much, much more. And if I just have the graphics in TSC like in TSW, then I have much more routes to choose from in TSC, and above all, countries that don’t even exist in TSW. If I just take all the Swiss routes alone, with all these and many other improvements, then I will definitely play TSC more than TSW.
What more than the graphics are the big deals? I understand that the ammount and the variety of conent available for TSC is an important factor for many - and that's just how it is. I guess it has to do with how different TSW and TSC are. As I said, TSW offers more than just fancy graphics. For me, it's the timetable modes, the first person mode and several other things.
Except as people have pointed out many times, TSW really isn't that far ahead, the best TSC routes in fact have more scenery density, like this route as an example. https://store.steampowered.com/app/...idland_Line_Aickens__Springfield_Route_AddOn/ The biggest hold back is that the lighting in TSC by default is awful, but with light enhancements it becomes fairly competitive. Stuff like Midland Line here honestly blow TSW out of the water in quality. I remember a few threads also comparing TSC to TSW, notably this one. https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/sehs-tsw2-vs-ts-screenshot-comparison.34865/ TSW is not always a universal improvement over TSC in route quality, and especially not loco quality, see the steamers which somehow feel worse than the bloody default Kuju steamers from 2007. Which is kind of ridiculous considering there's such a big gap between the games in terms of tech. But then there's all sorts of commentary you could have on the state of games in general, particularly about remasters of games not always being the best versions despite being so far removed from the OG games they're based on.
Looking at what modders have done with Assetto Corsa, none of those things seem insurmountable as long as the community is there for it.
The problems TSW have are contained within TSW and not in the quality of other train sims. Nothing would be a threat if TSW content released in an acceptable state and that is what DTG and third parties have to concentrate on. I’m a console player and the quality of TSW game and content is the only thing I care about. I don’t look at competitors at all. There aren’t any. If I stop buying TSW stuff it’s because it’s rubbish and not because something else is better. The same will be true for PC players. If TSW game and content are good enough they will buy it. They may also buy stuff for other games if those games are good but those other games are already there. The only threat to TSW is TSW itself.
Another key difference between the TSW and TSC is not only the graphics, but the fact that TSW does not have an "easy to use" route editor like TSC so there are way more route options available! TSW is fine if you just want to jump in and drive what routes that are available to purchase from DTG. TSC has so many well made freeware routes which is great for replay value and customization.
The link isn't working for me, I'll have another go later. I'm interested to see what RailWorks Next actually does to TS. Hopefully it doesn't become vapourware like many of these community upgrades end up.
I would probably play TSC more if not for the insane spaghetti of dependancies which quickly arises once you go into externally sold products. The biggest one for me was the ATS 755 which I desperately wanted to play because it is my local train. I already owned the Wherry Lines from Steam so I went for it. Only of course you launch a scenario and immediately get an error message and force quit about missing content, specifically the 745. Got that, then the signals were invisible because they were from an Armstong Powerhouse pack. Then the 745 scenarios on GWML required a freight enhancement pack, and a 321 enhancement pack which itself required a different route... At that point I just gave up because what was on the surface a £30 loco pack was fast becoming something that would cost hundreds to properly enjoy, because of an absolute spaghetti of dependancies for dependancies. Railworks NEXT is not going to fix this. Also I admit I'm a bit of a graphics and realism junkie, so unless it has a specific train in it or a different type of gameplay which I very particularly enjoy (British Railway on Roblox for example which is multiplayer and has almost the entire Greater Anglia fleet available both present day and pre 2020) then nothing is ever going to threaten TSW for me. That doesn't mean it is spared from my critisism by any means or that I am some kind of TSW yes man fanboy, just that no other game currently available does the things I like about TSW regardless of remasters or whatever else.
Yes we have already seen openOMSI split into separate branches due to differences between those engaged on the project. The last few versions have seen a distinct drop in performance, maps like London which were running at a nice smooth 30 FPS now crawling at 10 even after dialling settings down. And have the developers of Railworks NEXT obtained the blessing of DTG for their project? openOMSI have ensured that their game needs to read the official OMSI 2 folder when running and will register time played on Steam (so you can’t use oO as a back door means of extending the Steam refund window).
Which for me is a big enough advantage to negate wanting to play other trainsims. I only use TSC for the steam content.
Agreed. In the end, I got tired for purchasing a £20 or more route and only having 5 services to drive. Unless you purchase add-on packs, that required countless paid and unpaid content just to run - it just got messy. The 24 hour timetable is the key for me in consigning TSC to the archive.
The worst was the original Glasgow Suburban. I think you had something like 4 services with the Class 320 EMU.
Fair enough, and it’s not meant to be a TSW killer anyway. TSW is a different product with its own strengths, and I’m not trying to compete with it. One thing to clear up, though: it isn’t TSC with a graphics upgrade. It’s a new engine written from scratch that can run the existing TSC content: routes, locos, wagons, scenarios and Lua scripts. The graphics are just what shows up first in screenshots. A lot of the work is under the hood: Physics: Driving physics rebuilt from the original blueprint values, including a proper boiler simulation for steam locos AI: A new AI dispatcher, checked against what the original dispatcher planned in real save games Streaming: Reworked so routes load more smoothly while driving Editor: A separate editor is in the works The point isn’t to replace anything. It’s to give the huge TSC library, thousands of routes and models built over more than a decade, an engine that can keep it alive for years to come. If you already have TSW and are happy with it, that’s great. This is for everyone who still has a lot invested in TSC. Good question! Apart from the graphics, these are the parts I think matter most: Physics that respect the content. Driving physics come straight from the original blueprint values instead of being guessed. Couplings have slack, brakes behave according to the vehicle’s own brake settings, and steam locos have a real boiler simulation: pressure, water level, fire, safety valves, plus an optional automatic fireman. A smarter AI dispatcher. The AI plans its routes from the timetable, keeps to the correct running side for each country and is designed to avoid the classic deadlocks. I tested it against what the original dispatcher planned in real save games. Living stations. Passengers wait on the platforms and board the trains. Departure boards can show real timetable data. Quick Drive that actually works. You pick a route, a start station and your stops, and the AI traffic is planned around you. Smoother loading. Tiles and objects stream in while you drive, and avoiding stutters is a high priority. Weather and light. Weather changes during a run, with rain on the windscreen, thunderstorms and proper night lighting. A new editor, which is still in the works. I can’t speak for openOMSI. That’s a separate project for a different simulator, and I’m not involved in how it’s run. This project, NEXT for Train Simulator Classic, has its own code base. Performance is something I take very seriously, for exactly the reason you describe: nice features are worthless if the sim crawls. A few things are built in specifically for that: Settings that actually work. Every graphics option in the launcher has a real effect in the engine, from view distance and shadows to texture quality, scenery detail and particles. Options that aren’t implemented yet are clearly labelled, so you don’t dial something down for nothing. Upscaling and frame generation. DLSS, DLAA and FSR are supported, including frame generation, to keep the frame rate up on demanding routes. Streaming instead of loading everything. Scenery around the train is loaded and unloaded as you drive. Stutter tracking. The engine logs its own hitches, so slow spots can be found and fixed instead of guessed at. Performance testing is its own work area. New features are checked before they ship, so they don’t quietly cost frame rate. I won’t promise numbers before people can test it on their own hardware. But a big drop in FPS from one version to the next is exactly what I want to avoid. And the last thing: You STILL NEED the Original TSC from DTG and you still need ORIGINAL CONTENT from Steam.
They're still entirely different games. If you don't want to play one region of Poland with a half dozen trains....then you're out of luck. That's TSW's real strength... variety.
It’s hilarious that every time we get another Train Sim everyone acts like it’s the end of DTG. Never ever ever happens, and probably never will.
What ??? Variety is what TSC has in abundance. It has it's flaws, but variety is not one of them. What's Poland got to do with this thread? Which is about what seems to be an interesting project.
Either you don’t know TSC, or you just have no idea. TSW and diversity I can’t stop laughing. TSC has thousands of times more diversity than TSW, just look at how many routes and trains and locomotives and wagons you can buy for TSC, and then look at all the freeware routes that are available for TSC, even the freeware routes for TSC are much more than the routes TSW has. And with TSC you don’t have to pay such exorbitant prices for each route, and the routes that come out and that you pay for usually get more updates in the first 2 weeks than a TSW route gets in its entire life. And what does TSC have to do with Poland. TSC is TSC, and not SimRail. And in TSC you can guarantee to drive a route from Poland to Germany, and not just such short and sometimes pointless ends as in TSW routes.
Aren't TSC route and loco prices similar to TSW? I'm sure I've seen TSC routes just as expensive as TSW, though perhaps there's a bit more of a range on TSC then?
Routes are generally longer but then again don't come with a 24 hour timetable. There are advantages and disadvantages to both. I used to love making scenarios for TSC but I don't have the time or inclination now to do it, or to go searching for content to download and run scenarios. It's only the steam content keeping TSC installed on my system.
I'm all for TSC that actually runs reasonably on modern hardware and is better looking, but people need to manage the expectations a little. A lot of things we take for granted in TSW were actually neve modelled in TSC (one glaring example is that the brake pipe pressure is singular, and affects the whole train, there is no air propagation). You cannot just simply start to simulate these things, because there is no info in the original blueprint i.e. how the air propagates through each wagon. The same is true for electrical, engine, multicab signalling..etc modelling. So, as someone who played TSC since Railworks 2, I would very much welcome a more performant engine. But for people that expect that this will somehow elevate TSC content to TSW level, in terms of simulation and/or graphical fidelity depth... No... you cannot do that without doing lots of additional stuff to the original content.
No, they are not. I get new routes for TSC with more km length, up to about 30 francs, and those are already the expensive ones. With TSW, for 30 francs I might get routes that are very, very short, and for the regular routes I usually pay around 50 francs in Switzerland, and I’m sure there are routes that are even more expensive. Check out TSC, use the RW Enhanger or whatever it’s called, and also the AP Weather tool, and many more, to make TSC look nice. You don’t need to install all that anymore, because FredD will build it all into his own engine. And after that, TSC will look better than with these tools that take a lot out of TSC today. FreD has already written open what he is going to do, and that was not all he will do. I guarantee that TSC with its new engine that he is building, as others have done for OpenOmsi, will make much more of TSC than many think is possible. And then TSC will have at least as beautiful graphics, and 64Bit processing. Look at Omsi 2 videos, and then look at the same maps with OpenOmsi, then you might understand what I mean.
I own all of these, RW Enhancer, RW Enhancer 2, and also the AP Weather tool, and basically all scenarios I play in TSC I modify to include the AP Weather tool. It makes TSC look better, but it still makes it look like what it is, a DX9 games without any of the modern rendering techniques. And a new engine will not change much about it. You can add some effects, like proper screen space reflections... But you cannot just take an asset from one engine and expect it to look great in a new engine, that has a totally different rendering pipeline, and needs additional material textures to render correctly i.e.. Then there is stuff like poly count, object density, terrain heightmap resolution...etc... Look at Tadami Line, where (as far as community is concerned) TSC assets were used. It looks sub-par (and it also sound sub-par)... And those assets were properly migrated with all the missing stuff added, it just that the base was low (considering TSW) quality. And now people expect that the result will be different for a TSC Next? Why? I seriously don't understand how people can look on TSC, and then look on something like Liberec - Stara Paka, or Just Trains routes, or Riviera Line.. and with straight face say that regular TSC content is comparable fidelity.... As for openOmsi - it demostrates all this. It looks better than Omsi ever did (and actually runs reasonable), but it looks like Omsi. And it also demostrates one issue with AI heavy driven development. Especially when AI is used to decompile the original code, and rewrite it... It's hard to fix specfic bugs (like AI traffic breaking down at intersection in open omsi) - you have no knowledge of the code base, you, as a dev, don't know where to even look to examine what's happening in the code.. you 100% rely on AI to fix it, but it's something that is hard for AI to tackle, because you cannot describe it properly in a way that the AI agent will understand the content.
We're not discussing TSC though. Yes, I was referring to Simrail as an example of the "TSW killer" that never happened. Sorry, should have made clearer. Point is I'm not scared that this will "kill TSW" at all. If nothing else, TSW has years of expansion and content that people won't abandon... and TSW is one of the few rail sims on console which the "new" game also will not be. I think the closest competitor for this new game is in fact Simrail..or maybe Running Train. The only true competition to TSW would have to be something mostly on console that appeals to casual players.
What you are talking about isn't TSC. I can't access the forum you're talking about, so I can only go from what you've said which is that its a "new game" that's not TSC. In any case, my point above remains. TSW is a heavily console player game (about 80% of the player base in polls said they were on console fully or in part) so unless you have a mod to bring TSC to consoles then it's not at all comparable. In fact, unless this adapts EVERY TSC route out of the box for free, then even then that fails to reach TSC diversity. As long as it's a "mod" you'll not get console players or most PC players on it. It'll be a niche.
