Disappointed With Tsw2

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by 749006, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    So having bought TSW a few years back and having been told an Editor is coming we get nothing.

    TSW2 will bring new features to create own own scenarios and run the trains we want.
    But at a cost and what do the current TSW owners get out of it - nothing.

    At least with TS2020 we get a free update of the game engine and if we want new routes/trains we buy them if we like them.

    Why DTG could not have given a Free Update to the new game I do not know.
    They have already said the current content we own will be transferable to TSW2
    And it would have made sense for everyone to be on the same version of TSW for fault finding.
    So if I purchase TSW2 I will have to find more room on my computer

    And what is there to say when the next improvement to TSW2 comes out people won't be left standing as TSW3 appears?

    Peter
     
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  2. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Currently that's the big question, yes. I am hoping it's a one time thing only, I am going to buy TSW2, but if this becomes a trend then I'll probably be out in the future. Of course I'm still excited for TSW2, really looking forwad to what else it has to offer, I'm really hoping it's not going to be a disappointment.

    My biggest problem is that so far it looks like exsisting routes will be left in the state they are in now. Some people are saying that they heard rumors of bugfixes coming to the current TSW routes before the release of TSW2, but I don't know. They announced the improvements to the CSX Heavy Haul route separately. If a few extra services added to that route apparently is a "selling point" for TSW2, then I highly doubt they will release fixes for the other DLCs without saying a word.

    Well we will see what they say in the stream(s). I'm hoping it ends up being good and they can justify this whole TSW2 thing and having to buy it again.
     
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  3. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    The German route is Koln - Aachen which is 70km and 35 mins on an ICE3M
     
  4. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    I’m sorry Peter that we haven’t received an editor for TSW. At the time DTG announced that an editor was planned for TSW, I believe it was announced with good intentions but I don’t think they had realized how much work that would entail. They certainly have learned a lot over the past couple of years and I feel like we have as well. Although TSW hasn’t received an editor I wouldn’t say that took away any enjoyment of the content they created and I know how much people were looking forward to this feature. As you have seen on the TSW2 announcement it looks like they have implemented some editor tools for scenarios and liveries. I really think they are starting out with a new start.
     
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  5. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    I get your point but it is a business and these things take time and money and it does appear to be quite a significant enhancement the likes of which haven't been seen in TS for quite some time now.
     
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  6. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    In the announcement, they did say the editor is in the works .
     
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  7. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    DTG should follow what they are doing for the TS classic series. Every year if you own the previous version of the game you can get the new one free of charge. It's really nice of DTG to transfer the old TSW 2020 content over.
    TSW is a truly great game.
    But if in the future DTG charges us just for an upgrade of the same series that can get really annoying.
    But I would guess DTG would do what they did in the past with TSW when it was first released for consoles in july 2018. If you owned TSW 2020 already then DTG would charge you 50% or 75% off or a big discount for the new TSW 2. If you did not have TSW 2020 you would pay the full price for TSW 2.
    But we are not there yet to know more about pricing and features. (This is just speculation)
    Tell me what you think.
     
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  8. MarkL

    MarkL Member

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    Don't hold your breath on that. DTG have been saying the editor "is coming", "it's in the works" and "we need to streamline it" since the release of TSW, 5 years ago. In the mean time, 1-2 years ago we saw Matt use it once in a Twitch, and also a couple of screenshots were released on it and that's it.

    DTG uses it, specific partners also use it probably, but us the common folk apparently not. And now TSW gets shelved for the new iteration of TSW to come out and we are still "in the works" phase. So like I said, don't hold your breath ;)
     
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  9. kmbegg

    kmbegg New Member

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    I bought TSW 2020 via steam (full price as I was not aware of the discount if I bought it direct at the time) only 2 weeks ago. I hope consideration is made for people who have just bought TWS 2020 with pricing is made available for TSW2.
     
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  10. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I have a funny feeling that if you get TSW 2, and have it alongside an installation of TSW.... and then you associate the TSW DLC with TSW 2.... that you will end up with:

    - TSW core
    - TSW2 core
    - Another copy of TSW core inside TSW 2

    I don't know this - it is just a guess.... It would be interesting to know what actually happens... because if the TSW core gets duplicated in TSW 2, then I'd want to wipe TSW... and re-download the TSW DLCs under TSW 2.....

    That said... maybe the TSW core (stripped of DLCs) doesn't actually amount to much... other than a little bit of UI.... as virtually everything is bedded into the DLCs. Dunno. ;-k
     
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  11. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    That will make it the longest German route to date and the first with a sensible start and endpoint.
     
  12. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    In a question thread, Sam said you do not need TSW to run TSW2. You would be able to uninstall the original game if you don't plan to play it anymore.
     
  13. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    AFAIK the trains/routes in TSW are not separate from the game
    It would depend if I can use the trains from TSW if I have uninstalled it
     
  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The game engine is distinct from the DLC but you need the engine to run the DLC. But you can have any version of the TSW1 engine and it will run any of the TSW1 DLC, and now the TSW2 engine will also run TSW1 DLC, but it's likely that TSW2 DLC won't run properly on the TSW1 engine
    So are they conjoined or separated?
    I would say the latter
     
  15. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    You can uninstall TSW 1 anytime. Your add-ons will not be lost if you remove TSW 1 as they will automatically transfer to TSW 2 once you re-download the add-ons.
     
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  16. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    In which thread did DTG give this information?
     
  17. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    I am not really happy at DTG. DTG promised the editor, steam engines, "The most newest and accurate physics and a next gen game 4-5 years ago at the beginning of TSW 1.
    Almost all of the 3 I think was a lie as DTG revealed the truth about why it did not work in the TSW 2 announcement and why TSW 1 did not become the game it was supposed to be.

    I hope DTG gets TSW 2 right AT LAUNCH or around and not become a disaster that TSW 2020 or TSW 1 sort of fell into. But my praise goes to them for coming sort of clean and explaining why we never got the editor or the steam engines. But I think I was robbed of the game because it was not what it was *promised* and rumored to be.
    But kudos goes to DTG for keep going even when there was issues. I have spent over $150 USD on the content of TSW 1 and to see it just get preserved not updated or fixed is outright robbed. So their saying (so far) that even the newest loco releasing on june 18th is going to be preserved? WOW.
    Anyways I love TSW no matter what but tell me what you think. Don't even get me started on the UE5 topic UGHH.
    This may have sounded really negative but this is what I think and is my opinion tell me yours.
    https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/about-trainsimworld

    Read the article closely about the truth of TSW 1.
     
  18. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Oh - that explains a lot. It sounds like you are saying that TSW has got a core that is distinct from the DLC..... ;-)

    NB: I agree with you - I expect to get two (relatively small) cores with TSW 2, one for each version of the game, under one banner... "TSW 2"... if you buy and install TSW 2 and then associate the original TSW DLC to it....

    It would be useful if this gets addressed at some point.... either way, I don't think it is a biggie for most players.
     
  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I don't... I expect two completely different installs because the UE core is going to be different. Hopefully they won't duplicate the DLC but I'd put money on them doing so
     
  20. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Aaah, okay.... - I expect it to be the other way around:...

    - duplication of cores
    - single reference copy of the original TSW DLC

    My concern is whether or not there would be a triplication of the cores..... (two TSW cores plus one TSW 2 core).... if you have "both" TSW and TSW 2 installed on the same machine.....

    Duplication of the DLC would be extremely inconvenient - because that would form the vast bulk of the storage space..
     
  21. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Haven't checked recently but from memory the routes live within the TSW envelope, so unless TSW2 shares that envelope...
     
  22. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I think that TSW 2 will have a copy of the TSW "envelope".

    You can call it envelope. Or core. Or sandwich. Or whatever. All I am suggesting is that it is likely that TSW 2 will effectively be "TSW 2 plus TSW" and that DLC designed to work with TSW routes will still run on TSW routes, on the TSW core, but under the TSW 2 banner, umbrella, tent, or whatever you want to call it.

    One question for me is whether or not the original TSW rolling stock will run on new TSW 2 routes, but under the original TSW specification for rolling stock.... and made available under Quick Drive... I mean... Scenario Planner...
     
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  23. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    Calm down. Nobody is forcing you to buy it and you'll still be able to play your original content. If you want the newer version the most likely cost will be £24.99 based on the pricing model they've used previously and you'll still get to play your existing content and you'll have new routes. Nobody is being ripped-off. You're being ridiculous.
     
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  24. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    The amount that DTG has learned over the course of TSW and using that knowledge of the game and community to create a sequel with an upgraded game engine with multiple improvements such as adhesion physics. I’m glad we are getting TSW2 and I’d would much rather pay for a sequel then have any of these improvements “patched in”. I have got more then my money’s worth from TSW and I don’t think anybody is entitled to a discount and I certainly can’t complain if they are bringing all of the routes I’ve paid for over to TSW2. Neither multiplayer or the editor or bugs stop TSW from being a complete game.
     
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  25. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Uncanny - it has been announced.... £24.99.... well done... !

    Where do I send the fluffy toy as your prize....?
     
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  26. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Peter its DTG expect nothing, due to your high Hope's I must blame you for your disappointment.
     
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  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Discussed on the stream, unknown was the answer
     
  28. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Aaah - I picked up "No" as the answer (from the stream). I do not expect TSW trains to run on any TSW 2 routes.
     
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  29. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    When I'm not off to bed I'll rewatch and pick that one out...
     
  30. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, let's see, se after today's stream it's clear that:
    -current DLCs are forgotten basically, no route extension, no bugfixes, even though there are plenty of horrible bugs still left in them (for example NEC, LIRR)
    -current DLCs do not get the new features of TSW2, not even the scenario editor, so I suppose we can forget about stuff like ever seeing a lively LIRR outside of the few scenarios they made for it
    -nor the scenario or the livery editor get a sharing system, so it's probably not going to be used by like 80% of the player base
    -no passenger information system, nor station announcements, even though the latter is something that's in other train simulators from 16 years ago
    -no improvements to graphics other than what the core engine update may give us, but it was specified that there are no longer shadow draw distances, nor fixes to sunlight, etc
    -level crossing animations are now removed even from Sand Patch Grade, the only route that had them to begin with, because apparently they used too much resources, and instead of fixing it, they just removed the system altogether
    -proper editor is simply not even in the works, despite we have been told it is for years now

    These are the things I can recall for now, but boy that was a disappointing stream. Pretty much every question regarding fixes or new features was "no". There seems to be no improvements made to the game itself other than wheel slip and a new sky... I'm really sad because I wanted this to be good, but looks like I gotta have to stick to TSW2020 for now. I will be looking forward to what people have to say about TSW2 after launch, but so far I'm not impressed by it.

    Anyway I really appreciate the honesty at least, it must've been tough to answer there with such straigh answers even though they probably knew it was gonna cause disappointment to everyone, so I must give props for that. I see their intentions are good, but so far this whole thing is really bad.
     
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  31. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    As I understand it at this current time, all TSW content* will be usable in TSW2 in the same way it is in TSW now, once they have preserved the content. There will be two versions of all DLC, one will work in TSW as is, and the other ‘preserved’ version will work in TSW2. I doubt that all the content will have gone through the process of being preserved by the TSW2 release date, it certainly hasn’t yet, and a list of what has will be published at the time of release.

    I would go further and say that there is no certainty that this new preserved content will behave the same way in TSW2 as the originals do in TSW. There may well be new bugs in the new versions, and as the whole thing is new I don’t expect it to be fully working on release. I will be keeping TSW alongside TSW2 because you never know what can happen and I’d advise everyone not to delete TSW until they have fully tested that the preserved versions work well in TSW2 and are happy with it.

    * I have no idea what will happen to the original Sand Patch route on PC. I have a feeling that won’t get preserved as there is a new version coming in TSW2, and that version has lost some features like working crossing barriers. More of the original features may have been removed in the new version to make it work on consoles and that will be the version on all platforms in TSW2. The original will probably only be in TSW. It’s worth asking for confirmation of all this for future Q&A streams.
     
  32. MarkL

    MarkL Member

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    whoever was talking 2 years ago about the dumbing down of TSW due to the console releases is becoming more right by the day it seems. But back then everybody was like "don't be ridiculous, console release means more money for DTG and that's great because the quality will increase!". Well, it obviously got them more revenue but we are still paying for DLC that are in the "good, but" range and stay there indefinitely. Now we are paying for Unreal Engine updates too.

    I would give them money in a heartbeat to support them. But support what? They aren't trying. They find new ways to get money off their loyal userbase but the quality is worse than before. Indeed, GWE released in 2017 and still feels more complete despite the bugs in contrast to, say, TVL released in 2019. NTP (2018?) is awesome but it needed its freight extra DLC to be on par with the variety of GWE.
    It took them a year of loud moaning to fix the mess in Rapid Transit and they only did it when they could capitalize on it again by selling the Taurus DLC that could run on it. It also took them about a year to fix the unrealistic diesel traction for the HST and Class 66 along with the american EMDs (those were the last to be fixed).

    And now they want me to believe that the extra money they want will go to their effort or to a quality improvement? When has money been pumped to effort and quality in the past, to be allocated there now? They must think we have short attention spans and forget easily.

    Remember Digital Draftsman? The guy criticizing DTG about their practices the most, and mocked by the community around here a lot. Haven't seen him around these days but a lot of the stuff he was saying starts making sense.
     
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  33. 37114

    37114 Active Member

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    There definitely seems to be a shift towards 'we want to be able to offer the same experience no matter what platform you're on'. I think that may make sense in a year or two with the phenomenal power that the new Xbox and Playstation offer but it does kind of feel a bit rubbish for us PC users in terms of having slightly dumbed-down content at the moment. With regards to older DLC in particular stock, I would imagine it will be recycled fairly quickly and included in future routes that we will then be able to use in the scenario planner. I guess sometimes you've got to take a few steps back in order to move forwards but I agree that it is annoying. The thing that pleased me the most was that it does appear that the scenario planner will be a lot more complex than just a simple quick drive.
     
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  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    You have, under a different name..
     
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  35. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    You can expect to have 2 times the same DLCs as they have to port old DLC to the new TSW2. Your old DLCs will not work with new TSW2 without porting them as its different UE4 version. Before the release, they will wrote a list which old DLCs are ported and ready, the rest will come later (if you gonna trust DTG about that announcement - as from past they never finish porting old stuff to the new standard - TSXXXX and rail elevation "we will add the rail elevation to old existing routes during the year" - they did 2 routes to show that they are working on it and after that no more old routes with elevation).
    So if you dont uninstall TSW 1 than you will have TSW 1 with TSW1 DLCs (UE 4.16.3) and than TSW 2 with TSW 1 and TSW 2 DLCs (UE4 version 4.23.1). There is no TSW1 core inside the TSW 2 (its still the same game but updated UE4 version - they can just update normally to give you free update but as you can see they dont want to deal with old DLCs anymore so lets release new game, move old DLCs there and just leave them like they are, never touch them again... great strategy)
     
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  36. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Can you directly move from UE4.16 to UE4.23 without any core changes?
     
  37. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    Its up to how you made the game from the beginning... if you made it update friendly than yes...
    But if you dont know what are you doing from the beginning than no of course... (Prototype in the name of the game which they cant rename now - well they can and there is always a way but i dont see them doing that is an example... taking Fishing game and naming it TS2Prototype is another example - why to start new project if we can just take existing one :)
    I dont blame them that they want money for update... i will be happy to pay but they just dump the whole TSW1 collection so why i will waste another money if they can do the same when they will move to UE5 ?
    I dont see any problems changing core in TSXXXX and still all DLCs are working fine, you can use that stuff everywhere (TSW2 features are just locked to the new content).
    Many of the content which i buy for TSW1 i buy it because of the promised editor so i can have a lot of assets - many unused rails in every DLC will never be used as there will be no more DLCs coming there but they were ready for users to add the stuff there with editor.
    I waste so much time to figuring out how to mod the game, did some great mods there (not talking about sound and skin replace) which im sure even impressed DTG as they never expected that coming.
    So yeah im not going to support TSW2, i have still some stuff which im working on for TSW1... and i think im not the only one who is not moving forward with TSW2.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
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  38. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Is UE 4.16 upgrade friendly?

    They didn't update the engine, still DX9. They recompiled to 64 bit and it's caused huge problems with broken DLC

    Oh, they said in the editor vid they did way back when that anyone could get the UE editor and start making stuff, so I don't think they had any doubt people would mod things. The question changed for me when they insisted on making all platforms equal, meaning the editor has to work on Xbox the same as PS4, let alone PC. Given the various restrictions on the platforms thats a more difficult thing than moving game engines
     
  39. Sumit

    Sumit Member

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    yeah
    move on
     
  40. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    It seems that they just dont't care, you just have to pay, you are not here to suggest anything. Because if you are suggesting than it looks like you are so unhappy, but with no reason.
     
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  41. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    You will get nowhere as the DTG fan boys here and on UKTS will always shout you down.
    If i had the couldn't careless attitude that DTG has, in my job. My 30 years on BR, would have ended at the end of my first year as an apprentice.
     
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  42. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    What a Stupid comment.
     
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  43. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    It's called common sense your Hope's were to high. Upon seeing your comments previously you like to complain so let's not and get a life.:)
     
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  44. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    Matt even said in the stream that the developers know what is wrong, they know how to fix it, and they'll add animated crossings back into the game when they're ready. Whenever that will be.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  45. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Another thing Peter (Mr Never Happy) it's a new game that's why it's not a free update, if you dont like it then dont buy it. DTG finally give us something the community have asked for but still you complain. Normally I'm also questioning DTG bit when its something we want, why???? The community have asked for more immersion, we've got it. We've asked for German High Speed, we've got it. Weve asked for London Underground, weve got it. Shut up stop complaining.
     
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  46. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    Its not new game, they just update UE4 engine to the never one and release it like new game... they dont start from scratch with that game... The same happened with Euro fish game... instead of updating Euro Fish, they just release Fishing Sim World.
     
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  47. OnScheduleW/ChickenWings

    OnScheduleW/ChickenWings Member

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    Exactly. But people will know as soon as they run TSW2 for the first time anyway.
     
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  48. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Yeah and we all know that it means they're probably never coming back. I would love to be proved wrong, but well we can see how their "we want to do it at some point" promises work out.
     
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  49. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Watch the Q&A stream it's a new game, completely separate from TSW2020.
     
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  50. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    After watching the Q&A DTG only gave yes and no answers for TSW2. For the price being set at around $30(?) I’d be more then happy to give them a chance considering I’d be paying more for these routes as separate DLC in TSW and the fact that they get to run on an upgraded version of the UE engine with adhesion physics and 4K support. I am 100% behind this. I really enjoyed and still enjoy the content put out in TSW and I fully support TSW2 and the changes to the game and then attempting to reach out more to the community. That Q&A was a great start.
     
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