Disappointed With Tsw2

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by 749006, Jun 10, 2020.

  1. Louis-MTA NYCTA

    Louis-MTA NYCTA Well-Known Member

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    Despite all of the negatives I can see for TSW 2. The High speed ICE 3 looks really great and I can't wait for the FIRST metro, tube or subway line in TSW the Bakerloo Line. I also can't wait to see how the steam trains work on TSW 2 when they eventually figure them out.
    I would love to see how DTG recreates the 1972 tube stock with the old circular 80s AC units, D.C cut-off and Traction motor sounds. If DTG and that's a big IF, they make the Bakerloo Line great then a lot of people will like it. I see the Bakerloo Line as a big selling point for TSW 2 it was a highly requested route anyways.
    Even Though I'm here in NYC I still love the UK's very old but intricate tube/overground system. Especially the old tube stock I would love to see the 1962 stock as well as a nostalgic run arrive later on the Bakerloo line.
     
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  2. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Sure, the price is pretty correct actually, which is nice to see, but for me it just still doesn't worth it. The core game updates are minimal and the new features don't live up to their potential, especially without a sharing feature. It's still a good price even for just the routes alone, right, but tbh I already have Sand Patch Grade, the ICE route is just not my thing, so the only route I'm interested in is the London Underground one. So as it is now, I'm not going to buy it just because of the Bakerloo Line. I would've bought the game if the new editors were available for the older routes as well, but this way I'm not interested so far.

    Maybe later if further improvements are made or new routes comes out I really want to play, but so far it just doesn't offer enough to make me want to buy it. I was looking forward for improvements that make the experience better on the routes I already own and love, but all the current DLCs have been basically forgotten, so TSW2 just doesn't offer any advantages for me yet.

    I'm happy that there are still people who are excited and will buy it, because I don't want the project to die out, but sadly I have to say I'm going to wait with TSW2 until it can offer more to me, either in the form of more new features/improvements or new routes.
     
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  3. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    Bakerloo Line很棒我喜歡它,TSW2仍然為我提供任何優勢,我並願意購買它
     
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  4. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Let me confirm the prices for you : £24.99, $30, €30. :) 3 routes for the price of one cent complain.
     
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  5. OnScheduleW/ChickenWings

    OnScheduleW/ChickenWings Member

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    Hey, here's a rotten apple for 5$ only. complain
     
  6. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - watch the personal insults]
     
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  7. OnScheduleW/ChickenWings

    OnScheduleW/ChickenWings Member

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    Don't worry bratan, I intend to leave on my own because I will not be buying this anyway and I have lost all interest in the TSW franchise as well as anything related to DTG (just as I've stated before). I was just witnessing the fall of a company. It's sad, on one hand, but on the other, it's just natural selection.
     
  8. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    The fall of company??????? DTG aren't falling.
     
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  9. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    DTG公司倒閉?不會
     
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  10. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    Controversial statement as it may be... I don't actually hate the game as it is right now. Despite the supposed "horrendously unforgivably horrible" nature of the game and its content, I have fun and enjoy playing things. TSW 2 doesn't atand to make things any worse, it's just less better than some thought it would be- and that doesn't bother me. I'll happily buy it just for the two toutes. If the two routes were just oddly bundled together and sold off for TSW2020 instead for the same price, I'd still buy it.

    Yes, it is disappointing that some of the glitches in the original routes won't be fixed, but... it's been years. If you believed that they were going to ever be fixed in the first place after a year or so, that's on you. And very few of them are dealbreakers for me personally, a couple of signalling bugs have annoyed me enough that I don't play NEC or LIRR anymore, and playing on the PC I have NO idea what the whole Class 47 thing ia actually about, but... IMO I don't really see ANY absolutely gamebreakingly horrible bugs outside of that.

    If you're buying things based on empty promises (and it's debateable whether they were really promises to begin with) then I guess it would be disappointing to learn that those promises are empty... but after a few years of no news on them, to be perfectly honest, you should have figured it out by now.

    If you buy things NOT based off of promises for the future, but based on what you already get... then this is fine, honestly. I don't have a problem with the couple routes I've been playing recently and the game's features as a whole ALREADY, so... this is just a kinda nice addition, bringing a few improvements, even. So... yeah, of course I'll pay for more of just-slightly-better-then-the-same if I'm ok eith more of the same. I never think DLC are worth their full value TBH, but... this is 2 DLC for the price of 1, so it's already like being 50% off, plus a small bit of extra value from the upgrades to the third route and the new features.

    Though, I am aware this opinion does not represent a large portion of the community. I kinda play TSW casually, I'm not all serious and professional about it, I would nevet say something like "train simulation is my hobby" or anything like that... to me, it's just a game, really. Not an "arcade-y" one, I still see it as more of a sinulator and enjoy realism, but I guess that's why I can withstand the game's imperfections so much. And for a lot of people, they're expecting more than that.
     
    Last edited: Jun 12, 2020
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  11. BigMountain555

    BigMountain555 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with you 100%. I just couldn't say it any better.
     
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  12. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    I'm glad you do, I was expecting some kind of angry backlash at that tbh, heh
     
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  13. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Just because we can’t share the scenarios we create doesn’t mean we can’t share a guide on how we made it. If we all have the same tools across all platforms sharing a guide on how to build the scenario isn’t that hard to do. I’m assuming we will receive a TSW2 section on the forums separate from TSW and that will be exciting.
     
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  14. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    I'm also thinking it isn't unlikely that someone will find where the custom scenarios are stored and share the raw data via third party websites, kind of like how TSW mods work right now.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
  15. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that undoubtedly will happen, but should it be necessary? Wouldn't it be simpler for DTG to have enabled it themselves? If someone at home can eventually figure it out then surely it's easier for a "professional" who already has an in depth working knowledge of the software.
     
    Last edited: Jun 13, 2020
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  16. InspectorTiger

    InspectorTiger Well-Known Member

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    Naturally, I've been unfrozen especially for the occasion.

    Well, not keeping up on these things, the first I heard about TSW2 was seeing the Q&A stream on YouTube, so it was a little perplexing at first. I kept thinking "Yes, but what are you talking about?" It might have been worth saying at the beginning "By the way everybody, in case you hadn't heard, there's a new TSW game coming out!"

    I must say that Dovetail don't always make life easy for themselves; going from TSW to TSW2020 created a lot of puzzled questions along the lines of "So is this a completely new game or an update to the existing game? Will I have to buy DLC again?" and so forth. Now TSW2020 to TSW2 is a brand new game, not an update. But what will the next update to TSW2 be? Presumably, TSW2021, so enjoy the confusion; there'll be plenty of it.

    The Preserved Collection was always going to be another source of community puzzlement; the easiest option would have been to say "TSW2020 is a separate game: you can continue to play your downloaded routes and locos in that game, but nothing will transfer over to TSW2", but clearly it was felt that that wouldn't be well-received. Instead, we're in a strange limbo world where you'll be able to play the old TSW2020 routes on the new game, but none of the new features will apply to them, none of the assets will be available on to use on the new routes, and some of the signal posts will have cars on top of them (I guess it is called Unreal Engine.)

    The stream itself struck a slightly awkward and uncomfortable note, with Sam inadvertently revealing that the internal code-name for this project was 'Transport Fever 2', which I can readily believe, and the tone of the questioning veering wildly from friendly to full-on Paxman ("It's a simple yes or no question. I think the viewers deserve a straight answer.")

    Matt has always steered a careful, but creditably honest, course between talking about his own aspirations and enthusiasms for the game, and revealing information that he's not allowed to reveal for business reasons. His usual formula for describing things that aren't happening ("No plans for that have been announced") has apparently been dismissed as insufficiently definitive, and there were several exchanges like this:

    SAM: Will there be Feature X?
    MATT: So this is something we've looked at, we really want to make it happen, but we want to do it in a way that works for everybody.
    SAM: Is that yes or no?
    MATT: We very much want this to happen but it's not currently under active development.
    SAM: It's a simple question, Prime Minister. Yes or no?
    MATT: No plans for this have been announced.
    SAM: That's a woolly answer. Yes or no?
    MATT: No.
    SAM: Just to be completely clear, is that a yes or a no? I remind the witness that he is under oath.
    MATT: It's a no.

    (SAM looks shocked and embarrassed at this unexpected candour. Awkward silence ensues.)

    SAM: ... Let's move on.
     
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  17. Trenomarcus

    Trenomarcus Well-Known Member

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    Sam is specialized in embarrassed awkward silences as much as he's a tremendous talker, that's not a new one :)
     
  18. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Hurrah....! Good to see you are well and in form.... ;-)

    Like Han Solo, I am sure you will recover from the thawing process......
     
  19. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    I totally agree with you. You nearly took the words right out of my mouth.
    As a casual player myself, a few small bugs don't hurt my playing experience, and the fact that it is 2 routes and an upgraded route and game for the price of a single route plus I don't have to buy dlc all over again, I will definitely be getting the game.
     
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  20. MarkL

    MarkL Member

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    The thing the casual players fail to see is that they are not the only ones here. And hence the "oh what are these guys moaning about again this time" type of mockery around here.

    Its ok if you don't mind the bugs and the general sloppiness of DTG's DLC. Good for you. Unfortunately, DTG (and DTG are the only ones to blame here) exploit the players' lax quality expectations and release DLC with equally lax quality standards. That is not ok.

    Same with the empty promises raildan is talking about. We know most promises are empty and we have known it for a while now. But that doesn't give DTG the green light to keep making them and at the same time keep asking for more money. Their latest stream is going in the right direction but, with track record, I'll have to see an actual prolonged progress from them before I believe them. I hope they will.

    TL;DR: DTG is not being held accountable enough for what they (don't) do. Some people mind some don't, and hence the usual fighting in these forums
     
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  21. MarkL

    MarkL Member

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    Ah, I see
     
  22. JGRudnick

    JGRudnick Well-Known Member

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    I too would love to see the game improved a lot. However, I've stopped expecting too much from DTG, hence my casual playing style.
     
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  23. MarkL

    MarkL Member

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    fair enough
     
  24. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    The game being more casual wouldn't be a problem if it was advertised ad such. But it is advertised as a new level of authentic and realistic simulation. The absence of things like passenger information systems are one thing, because those are just fun details, even though simulators like Densha de GO had them 16(!) years ago. But in a train simulator I would expect ATC systems and signalling to work properly, and I would expect trackside signals to be in place at least, as those are a major part of the train driving aspect.
     
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  25. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    And therein lies the problem.

    Is TSW a serious train simulator or a train driving game? DTG seem to want it to be both but there seems to be two distinct camps within the users.

    Those who want something like Flight Simulator where the manuals are as thick as the ones made by Boeing or Airbus. Or those who just want a nice train "game".

    You can't please all of the people all of the time and unfortunately I think a technically perfect train simulator is too niche to be financially sustainable.

    If it was that simple or financially viable there would be other companies clamouring to do it.
     
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  26. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Maybe not, but you can get very close, with clever design. Very many car-racing simulators, which are hard core simulators at heart, are also accessible and potentially "easy" to drive for those that want "easy".

    TSW is currently like (I guess) Train Simulator 2013, or maybe Railworks, but with better graphics. It might not even be as advanced as Railworks..... But they will get there, eventually. We will have to wait to see the "roadmap" - in about six weeks.

    If you took the best from TS1 and blended it with the best parts of TSW... then you'd have a really nice result.... assuming people can agree on what best parts should be included....
     
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  27. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Well yes, it's not that hard to make different simulation levels to make it accessible for more players while also keeping it realistic. Look at how both Train Simulator and Trainz had modes for proper train driving controls and simplified controls. Diesel Railcar Simulator also has an "easy" mode I believe. So the argument that it needs to be more arcadey to sell well is nonsense.
     
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  28. Paulo_1997

    Paulo_1997 Active Member

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    Hey 749006!

    I have only one question and then I'm gone...
    Where did you get that Info?
     
  29. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Well that's where the routes going from and to and then...................I googled the distance. XD
     
  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Go to trainsimworld.com
    Scroll down to the "Read the full FAQ" section
    Open the "What routes..." section
    "Experience German High Speed for the first time with the Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen route driving the DB BR 406 ICE 3 and DB BR 442 ‘Talent 2’."
    That tells us the route and the locos on that route
     
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  31. Paulo_1997

    Paulo_1997 Active Member

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    Thank you!
    When I first visited the page, it was only saing 'Schnellfahrstrecke Köln' which could be anything... I had high hopes that it could be Cologne - Frankfurt, but obviously I had way too high hopes :D
     
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  32. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I tend not to bother hoping. That way I don't get disappointed
     
  33. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    According to Wikipedia, it's 70 km from Cologne to Aachen and the ICE 3 has a top speed of 250 kmh. My maths aren't great but that's about 20 minutes flat out. If you allow for the speeding up and slowing down, it could stretch to 30 minutes. Stick a stop somewhere along the way and you may get to 40 minutes, but then you're going to be losing the high speed element.
     
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  34. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    The ICE 3M is catered with a top speed of 330kmph or 210mph when in regular service. XD
     
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  35. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    That's going to make it less than 15 minutes flat out, assuming that 0-330 time is 0 secs, which obviously it isnt. So, 70 km isn't far at all then for a HS line?
     
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  36. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    As a comparrison, London to Peterborough is 85 miles (137Km) and takes 47 minutes. That's an acceptable length in TSx, so the proposed is normal for a TSW route
     
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  37. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Max speed of the ICE 3M is 330kmph but the top line speed is 300kmph.
     
  38. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    So, it's going to be the equivalent of running a short 3 lap race in an F1 sim rather than a full, or even half race?
     
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  39. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, basically.
     
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  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I don't think any train sim software gives you full IC runs from a single DLC... I stand to be corrected
     
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  41. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    Its not a new game... wake up man... because they create another ID on the Steam doesnt make it new game as its still the same game with updated engine which can be normally free. But there is one excuses - we dont want to update all the routes to the new standard so lets just make it a "new game" and told them that we will slowly port (cook them for 4.23.1 UE4 version and fix some errors in the scripts - but no bugs) other routes without updating them there (as you know not all old DLC will be ported by the release date and there is no 100% to be sure that they will port all the DLCs once you buy the game - happened in the past and it can happened again).
    That is exactly what TSW 2 is.
     
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  42. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    In the same way as Windows 10 is still basically DOS... I believe MS charged for decades for updates, so maybe DTG's policies only seem unacceptable because of what we've had before, but then "what we had before" also isn't acceptable

    In the end DTG have to make money to stay afloat and an "everything's free" policy doesn't work in that regard. What would your solution be to "free support, forever, for everything"?
     
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  43. trainsimcz

    trainsimcz Well-Known Member

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    I dont care if i will have to pay for update if they call it right name that this is still TSW with update version 4.23 and if you would like to use it than you have to buy the update... but calling that like a new game and completely remove support for TSW1 DLCs is just big fail from DTG but like a said it happened in the past with TSXXXX and it will sure happened again in the future so be ready for that.

    And to be clear i own TSW from the beginning - TSW HH, than i buy TSW and than i even buy TSW 2020 so i will even buy TSW 2021 (that update UE4 version). I even own all DLCs which i buy always in day 1 when they were released so i have full rights to be piss of about that. Look on all the DLCs, many unused rails waiting for the tools to add the trains there, more scenarios, missing diesel DE locos and many more...
     
    Last edited: Jun 14, 2020
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  44. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I'm a pragmatist, so I deal in what is rather than what I hoped for... Other people's mileage seems to vary
     
  45. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    [removed by Protagonist - all caps is interpreted as yelling]
     
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  46. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    And the Emperor has new clothes!

    Matt's opinion is it's a new game. From what little has been seen of TSW2 at this time, some people are of the opinion it's not a new game. Everyone is entitled to have and express their opinion.

    (BTW I think your Caps Lock is on!)
     
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  47. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    1. I agree it shouldn't be a new game but...............it is.
    2. Sorry about my Caps Lock being on. Thanks for letting me know.
     
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  48. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    What about the chinese high speed route for Train Simulator that is 570kms long in total?
     
  49. TrainSim_Fan

    TrainSim_Fan Well-Known Member

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    That wasnt made DTG it was a 3rd party developer.
     
  50. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    So? If a random group of a few asian dudes can do it, then I'd suppose the creators of the game should be able to as well.
     
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