Ukts Forums

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by theorganist, Aug 9, 2020.

  1. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    I do not download much from UKTS but for the sake of £17 I donate £20 a year what the heck it is a good resource for the sim and we would be poorer without it.
     
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  2. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    UKTS undermines the commercial need of TS. Which really doesn't make sense.

    There is no UKTS for TSW2.

    In fact, from a purely business orientated point of view, UKTS chokes the commercial lifeblood of TS. Why spend money and invest in the product you love, when you can get loads of free stuff for the price of a takeaway Chinese.

    Sadly, this rhetoric comes full circle as this is why you have TSW2, and why TSW2 is the future of train simulation. Because there is money in it.

    You have to invest in what you love.
     
    Last edited: Sep 17, 2020
  3. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    But TSW2 doesn't have a freeware community so I don't see the relevance of that and you might have noticed that Matt is one of the lead developers of TSW!
     
  4. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    So now you are arguing that websites that offer free content are damaging TS1! Surely that would apply to the great ATS as well.

    Most routes and scenarios on UKTS require payware anyway to some extent, there is very little freeware stock, mainly steam locomotives from the very early days or Rail Simulator and Railworks. Most routes will require some payware, just like on ATS, scenarios can often be payware heavy! A regular criticism is that scenarios require too much payware.

    Anyway I am off to bang my head against a brick wall!
     
  5. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I had a lower 6 molar out yesterday and I'm not quite right yet.

    I'm just looking at how to rescue TS.

    Its a monopoly right now, and the player base keeps losing out to some seriously hokey quality releases and commercial decisions.

    I end up banging my head against a brick wall over it, and many seem to support such a ludicrous monopoly.
     
  6. WhippleStripper

    WhippleStripper Well-Known Member

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    Chill with TS2021 tonight.
     
  7. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Not a bad shout mate, I'm broken.
     
  8. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Last time I had a molar out it motivated me to quit smoking (after 30+yrs of doing so), that was over 7yrs ago, best pain I ever endured as far as I'm concerned. :)
     
  9. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    It definitely puts a stop to wanting to smoke. Last night was the most severe intense agony I've ever endured, once the local anesthetic wore off, it was like having full sized steam trains riding over my gums, non stop.

    Just had a quick look at the Steam Store, when is 2021 Deluxe going to drop? Along with Paracetamol and Codeine that'll help the mending process.
     
  10. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Deluxe is up there now.
     
  11. DTG Matt

    DTG Matt Executive Producer Staff Member

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    Hi Folks

    Delays abound on the server move, i'm flat out with TSW2 stuff and it's just had to take a back seat.

    Just wanted to clarify the history of the site though:
    I set UKTS up in around 2001, and ran and grew it for about 11-12 years before I joined RailSimulator.com and at that point in order to allow the site to remain impartial I handed the editorial control and management of it over to my father who has run it for nearly a decade now himself (and is in no ways connected with DTG and serves as a genuine buffer between myself wearing my DTG hat and the impartial community), along with a dedicated group of moderators that help keep it all in check. I am still involved because my dad is unable to manage the technical aspects of the site (server maintenance etc) so I look after that, hence why I'm doing the server move. Editorially it is still very much his site :)

    I'm hoping to get some time to continue the move this weekend but I also have tons of other stuff that needs doing too, so I'm not going to promise anything.

    If the site throws up a 500 error just ping me a message, for some reason PHPBB's cache is getting corrupted and I just need to reset it to fix it, only takes a minute.

    As far as the comments about monopolies go... well... all I can suggest is reading up on the definition of a monopoly and you'll see how wrong you are, the very existence of other sites denies it. I've always said UKTS would exist until people didn't want it and then i'd shut it down, Dad and I have no desires for it to become this big commercial entity at all. It provides a service, use it if you wish, use other sites if you don't. As long as you're enjoying train simulation that's really all that matters to any of us in the end.

    But I digress... hopefully I can complete some of the migration this weekend and if so i'll drop a note in this thread.

    Matt.
     
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  12. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Now that does make some sense, thank you for clarifying Matt. Couldn't you set up a cron job to reset the forum cache for you?

    Please do forgive my tone regarding monopolies, I've had major dental work done this week and the fumbled 2021 launch coinciding with that was a bum rush to say the least. I'd really like to help you take TS to the next level Matt. You're so close, but the mark is missed with most releases. From the outside, UKTS does fly at odds with the notion that you need to create revenue to keep TS floating.

    Like I was, there will be countless others sat on the fence over Train Simulator, waiting for standards to improve. I've waited over two years to see the wheel/rail glitch gone from TSW. I gave up and moved to Train Simulator, because there, I can make a difference to the software.

    I'd really like to help you sort TS's core engine out. I did it for Genesis, which I turned into DiSC, was bought by iCabbi and then absorbed into Renault Nissan. It was a broken system that just needed a fresh pair of eyes and a slightly different approach. I feel the same applies here.

    The monopoly applies to the update and upkeep of the core engine of Train Simulator, of which a massive 3rd party ecosystem flourishes around. The people deserve the effort.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  13. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    UKTS rocks! Who cares what it looks like.. who cares if it is a bit slow, and who cares if you occasionally need to refresh your browser. You'd all miss it if it wasn't there.
     
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  14. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Does the baseline standard always have to be so low though?
     
  15. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    dunkrez are you volunteering to revamp UKTS? Something to get your new teeth into. ;)

    Matt hats off to you and all the good freeware sites.
     
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  16. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Standard of what? It's a voluntarily run website that offers me stuff for free. I'm not bothered about a slick front end to a website. I can find stuff, and I can download stuff.. for free. I've subbed before now too.. presently I am not, no, but I'm not complaining either :) I'm happy with that. If it was a bit faster, it woudl be great, but I'm not looking a gift horse in the mouth.
     
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  17. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I most certainly could do that, and I have the time while I'm getting better.

    Yeah, to be fair, hats off to every bit of good that Matt P has done. I was grateful of the 142, the HST remaster (although they could have made it easier to splice the cabs by having an absolute naming convention that isn't deviated from). There's still a wealth of shambles to work through though.

    I think as the days roll on, I'm becoming less cranky. God bless teeth.

    While I think on, why doesn't UKTS just merge into ATS and let's start truly uniting this community and serving both distinct player bases. Just a thought.

    Also, why not just bring AP in properly to fully flesh out TS? Just throw it all in together, poke Lockheed Martin for some help overhauling the core, there's loads of things that could be done to push things forward.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Quite it works perfectly well and the forums have a wealth of knowledge in it's membership.

    Maybe ATS should merge into UKTS!
     
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  19. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    How about a compromise :)

    UKTS keeps the forums, ATS keeps the DLC side. Best of both.
     
  20. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Look I don't care what the website looks like I don't care that it's subscription pay based privilege, I don't mind that the download speeds are throttled for free downloaders, what I have an aversion to and the reason I dislike this site is the queueing system, ok we get it, you really want us to pay but this I feel is a step to far, what's next death threats?

    Sorry but the queueing really gets up my tits, to the point I stubbornly refuse to subscribe whereas if it was just a speed related advantage I probably would if and when required of course.
     
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  21. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    It is £2.50 for heavens sake, I can't believe the faux outrage, very much first world problems.

    People have put time and effort in to creating free stuff covering many years and several simulators yet people moan about £2.50, for a month, to save them queuing!

    I am going for a lie down!
     
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  22. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    It just could be nicer, better, serve the people that fund it in a friendlier way.

    Noticing a trend here?
     
  23. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I have no problems with it, apart from the obvious recent glitches, many people use it and are very happy there. So, no, I don't notice a trend. It has served the train sim community very well for well over a decade.
     
  24. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    You know, when the grain isn't good, I see no problem with going against it.

    Stagnation and familiarity rule the roost.

    As a paying customer, I simply can't defend the sloppy workmanship across the board anymore.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
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  25. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    I'm strongly against mergers as the weaker partner is overtaken by the stronger partner. To suggest AP merges with DTG is heresy, ruled by DTG management AP quality would become a victim to lowering standards. Note I say management and not the dev staff.

    Let the likes of UKTS, SSS, BackdatedTrainSim and others keep their autonomy for the sake of choice and quality.
     
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  26. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    My intention of AP merging is that AP assume creative control.

    Somebody new needs to assume full creative control, someone who will bloody obsess over every little detail.

    It is time to raise the bar.
     
  27. Cat

    Cat Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure there is someone on the dev staff that is in charge of creative control. I'm equally sure that someone in management can overrule their judgement telling the devs to "cut corners, get it out quick." As we have witnessed only very recently.

    What management fails to recognise the need for quality control so that the paying customer is satisfied. Judging by the many threads both here and on the Steam forum suggests there is little customer satisfaction. Modern management culture, (MBA post Graduates), focus only on the bottom line and not the customer. They do so at their peril and believe me I've had first hand experience in this.

    DTG management are stretching their manpower too far, Danny has had his first day off in a couple of months. Again, bad management relaunching two platforms in a short time frame. TS could have waited a month or so before the 2021 release and delivered a stunning WCMLS instead of a botch job.

    Agreed, DTG should raise the bar. (I'll drink to that) but that comes down to good management, you know, "the buck stops here" principle.
     
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  28. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    You're bang on Cat, I hit the realisation earlier that the whole shebang needs to slow down by a magnitude of 5, increase the quality through some proper nurture and systemic feedback, increase the cost of each release of the product slightly while packing a little more in there. Let the guys rest that need to rest, should be up there... but above all, have an absolute standard and not be afraid to slow the machine in order to achieve that standard. Good things brew.

    It must be pretty crushing to see your hard work get slated. Personally, I think there really is something there, that is great, but it's just mired in utter toss because of the way everything flows as a development cycle. Other TS dev houses have got it right. You gotta care for your customers, they're your lifeblood. They make you. Without a sea of people, a provider of any kind is nothing more than a man marveling at his own creations.

    Lessons could easily be learned very quickly.

    About 5 years ago, I had an argument with someone who overrode my bar for quality and released one product that I said was not ready purely due to client pressure. Huge backdraft.

    As Chief Systems Architect, if I won't put my name to it, it's not getting shipped. It was as simple as that. And the backdraft that happened ensured that my say was never overridden again.

    I wonder if there's some dude at DTG that is in that position right now.
     
    Last edited: Sep 19, 2020
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  29. andy.malcolm

    andy.malcolm Active Member

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    out of interest, when was this version of the site made?

    http://wwwnew.uktrainsim.com/

    I came across it the other day but don't recall seeing it before. I've dipped in and out of train simming since MSTS but always appreciated what UKTS offers, even if it is 5KBps :) Dug up some ancient artefacts on there in the past couple of weeks to allow me to play scenarios I downloaded years ago but never got round to driving at the time. That said if anyone knows where I can get this these days ...

    https://web.archive.org/web/2013112...ainsim.com/filelib-info.php?form_fileid=31626

    I'd be very grateful :D
     
  30. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Yes - you blinkered approach to UKTS and ATS
    I notice that you think ATS is good probably because you had a falling out with UKTS or somebody on the forums.

    ATS also charges a subscription to get some of it's downloads
    Where on UKTS do you have to pay to get a pack of OHLE or anything else?

    Want an Electrified Freeware route then you have to spend an extra £9.99 for the wires
    Even though the route, like the Leeds Lines, already uses assets from other routes that are electrified
     
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  31. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I've literally never fallen out with anyone on the UKTS forums, I've never used them.

    I think ATS is good because it has a great download mechanism, the guy that looks after it is nice, and the site is tidy.

    I'm quite insular Peter, I don't like falling out with people and I don't really like confrontation. I like helping people.

    Thanks for the public slaying though mate. I actually thought while a bit harsh sometimes, you are okay.

    I may come across a bit sharp sometimes, but that's just how I am. Sorry about that chaps.

    I like improving things. Particularly where there's merit to it.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
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  32. martschuffing

    martschuffing Well-Known Member

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    Blimey, I only stated I was getting a 500 error!

    Been back up now for several days, nowhere quite like the UKTS forums. :love:
     
  33. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    What is it about the UKTS forums that makes them so special?

    And why I would be cannon fodder for daring to suggest that they could probably just do with a technical overhaul, which is pretty reasonable seeing as it dies every two days then everyone sits and waits for Matt to dive in and play hero, which he could do with a cron job.

    I don't get it? What am I missing here. Please, someone explain.
     
  34. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    ATS - I go to the site and log in
    I spot a Reskin I would like so I click on it and read what I need - Kuju Mk1 pack - no problem
    I click on Download and it puts it in a Basket
    Then I go to Checkout where I have to agree terms and conditions
    So I click Download where it takes me to another page where a link to download the item appears

    UKTS - I go to the site and log in
    I search for what I want - a Mk1 reskin and I find it
    If I wish I can check which coaches are required for the reskin to work
    Or I can click on the download button - the link appears straight away and the item downloads

    I don't have to put the item in a basket
    I don't have to go to a checkout page
    And I don't have to agree to Terms and Conditions of my purchase - I have not purchased anything

    The people on UKTS can be a bit caustic but they are a generally good meaning bunch
    If you have a problem somebody will be able to help you
    Mike Simpson who made RW Tools and TS Tools has his own sub forum where you can leave a question
    and he will get back within 24 hours - he is in Australia :)

    Sorry if I was a bit harsh but the idea of ATS taking over UKTS was irritating

    Peter
     
  35. Frostie36

    Frostie36 New Member

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    The UKTS forum is down is it, as far as I'm concerned it can stay down! The atmosphere on that forum is absolutely bloody toxic and that's all down to a couple of posters, Ro****ris (I'm sure many of you ukts forum users can fill in the blanks of that name no doubt!) or whatever their name is is one of the culprits who does an awesome job of ruining the forum for everyone else & the so called dedicated group of moderators do sod all about this poster, he moans constantly about ap fans yet he's worse than all the ap fans on the planet combined where his love of dtg is concerned & god help anyone who posts even the remotest bit of negativity about any of their products!

    I was browsing their forums one day after a dtg route had been released & someone posted a comment about how they wished the route was a little longer or was extended a little further, there was nothing nasty in their comment at all & then this Ro****ris poster appears and their reply was absolutely disgusting, ranting & raving, they come across as a complete lunatic & as I said above, the atmosphere on those forums are turned very toxic as a result. Think I must of been having an off day on that particular day as I come across his completely over the top reply and decided to let rip before abandoning the site, deleting bookmarks, removing the forum from my tapatalk app & forgetting it even existed, best thing I ever done quite frankly, that forum is NOT one I recommend for anyone looking for a friendly atmosphere to discuss train simulator related content.
     
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  36. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Let's not turn this into an Alan vs Matt debate, neither of them would want that to happen (as has been said on stream)

    The CONTENT of both sites are valid. The people behind them are both passionate about the software in their fashion and from their own directions. Both have their good and bad points I'm sure.

    But let's leave this about the content and leave the people out of it

    And yes UKTS is an older platform, but in some ways it's more usable than ATS where you can't search for specific items as an example
     
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  37. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Well it is not down - I'm looking now between posting here.

    Are you a member there or have you seen a few threads and made your own mind up?
    Yes the person you mention is a DTG Fan Boy and hates anything AP - I'm sure you will find people like that here.
    But people are allowed to have an opinion
    The moderators there do a good job and will lock a thread or even delete posts if there is a problem

    And there are people like you who just join this forum to have a rant.
     
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  38. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I think things are fine as they are, all round, I don't see why one should have to make way for the other. I can't see ATS hosting the masses of MSTS stuff on UKTS for a start.

    I have downloaded from ATS but I don't see it as any better than UKTS in that regards.

    As for the forums being caustic, this place can be bad enough and some of the other forums I have looked on are just as bad. There is a lot of knowledge on the UKTS forums as I said earlier.

    The problems with accessing the UKTS forums are being worked on by Matt.
     
  39. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I'm not after a witch hunt, and I'm honestly in with fresh eyes and no rose tinted glasses. I have no loyalty to anything but my love of trains here.

    Surely to god, in your heart of hearts, you must see that the whole train simulator situation is a bit broken from the foundations up, and that it needs attention. That's my concern.

    A bit caustic is putting it mildly, I'm pretty hardy, the young guys have got no chance.

    I hope this all changes over time, I finally found a hobby I love again, it's just not a friendly environment, new comers aren't welcome, going against loyalties or the grain will get you your ass handed to you, the product releases are always hit and miss... and here I am just wanting to establish myself in the community, build some good quality locomotives for others that love trains, and break a few eggs to make some omelettes. If I can push for better standards, I feel I'm doing a good thing for all.

    I dont think football team type tribalism should apply here. It's so out of place.

    I'm just a dude, that's done some stuff, have a great missus, have kids that are growing up rapidly, and now I'm getting older, want to head into a profession I love.

    I have a very critical mind, and if there is a glaring issue, it's obvious to me.

    It honestly sounds like UKTS is a closed garden, and I'm not sure I'm welcome. But technically minded me, sees that it needs a kick up the arse.

    Is UKTS where all the 3rd party devs hang out? What's the draw? My experience so far tells me to stay away.

    Peter, with regard to what you said, how can anyone hate an AP product? Based on what? What is there to logically dislike? I do not understand.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  40. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    As I said before I have no issue with the forum, it is what it is, it's the same as any other forum for any other genre or market, there are nice helpful members there are miserable members there are holier than thou's and there are arseholes, quite often there's combinations of all of the above, it's almost like they're... humans.

    The membership/subscriptions are what they are, those that run the site are not Bill Gates or Jeff Bezos, they need to pay the bills and server costs are quite high, so I certainly don't begrudge that.

    Like I said the only thing that gets on my tits with UKTS is the damn queueing, the throttling is fine and my opinion enough, it does not need the extra "pay or wait all day" ransom attached.
     
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  41. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    More patronising, what is it with these forums at the moment?

    UKTS is perfectly welcoming, yes there are arguments as there are on all forums, you read through some of the forums on here if you want to see arguments, and I admit I been involved in some too my shame, although it is normally out of frustration.

    Funny as in the post above you seem to suggest you have a lot of experience and knowledge of them.

    Anyway, where is that bottle of Whisky I have hidden away!
     
  42. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    No you are just having a go at a forum out of the goodness of your heart
    Why - what is wrong with UKTS?
    You said in another post "I've literally never fallen out with anyone on the UKTS forums, I've never used them."
    And without even looking at it you think it need changing - what a load of Cr@p

    UKTS is not a closed garden - you only have to be a member to post there - you don't need a subscription.
    If you have a problem in the game you have a better chance of finding out a solution than on here.:mad:
     
  43. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I believe he was referring to the forum being a bit cliquey and trying to be a new person and gaining a voice is sometimes "problematic"

    Obviously there are no problems contributing the the main site as you can up and download pretty freely when the site works
     
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  44. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I got a subscription for ukts for 1 year back in 2018. I used it to get 5 freeware items. And that was that. I paid for the sub because of the terrible download queue throttle. And because I believe in paying towards what you love.

    Seriously, the guys here from UKTS like to call me patronising, to tell me I'm wrong, I've received warnings about the place? That's just enough to know to keep away.

    I'll keep building trains for the community and to support my loved ones, but that's as involved with UKTS as I'm going to ever get.

    I spent a fortnight meticulously sorting the kuju HST cab, while in recovery last year. Said to myself I'd be chuffed if 20 people found some good in it. Did it for love, no money, just to pay it forward. About 1200 downloads later, and not one person said thank you explicitly. I never asked for thanks, but none ever came. And people are still downloading it.

    Why am I receiving a bad time? It doesn't really make sense.
     
  45. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    So in one paragraph you think it is ok to charge a Fee and in the next you complain about it?

    There are a number of site where to get the stuff you want faster you have to pay for a Premium Membership
    I was on one where you were limited to the amount you could download in any day -
    I wanted assets for a route and had to get them over a period of three days

    And for a measly £2.50 for 1 month of uninterrupted fast downloads
     
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  46. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    It's the site layout and download queue system I don't like. They could be much more elegant and efficient. I don't like my time being wasted by loading or queues.

    You realise I've never personally attacked you Peter and never would? I'm not that kind of person mate.

    Why the hate? I'm here to help.
     
  47. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Received warnings about the place, it is an internet forum not a part of town you shouldn't visit after 9pm!

    And I am not "from UKTS" it is an internet forum, just like this is, in fact I spend more time here than there.

    And I am sure people are very grateful for your efforts, we are all grateful for efforts of those who contribute. I have uploaded a few scenarios, I have got plenty more to do, I have rarely received a comment, but I do it for my own amusement and try and share if I think it is good enough. Sadly in trainsim world and in life in general if you do good things you never hear about it, make one bad model or one bad scenario and people will never forget it!

    I am not having a go at anyone and I love this hobby as much as you believe me, but I think some people are looking much too much into things as if it is a television drama not a sim/game/whatever where you drive trains.
     
    Last edited: Sep 20, 2020
  48. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    You could have just had i month of downloads like a lot of people do
    From where?
     
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  49. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I could hazard a few guesses!
     
  50. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I'd consider this a warning, and if this is just one person, there's a lot more out there that feel the same way.

    This hobby will only get better once everyone sits up, takes accountability, and christ, maybe try being a bit kinder to one another? Just a thought?

    Why bash on someone because they have pointed out something that needs fixing? You need these people, they keep the wheels of everything turning.

    I really hope those 1200 do love what I did for their HST sets. I have more additional freebies on the way as well as paid for loco's, the freebies because I want to show that nurturing the community is the way forward.

    It can be hard work overcoming objections and moving things forward.
     

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