Hoo Junction Yard - Empty Yet Full Of Dispair

Watching the stream tonight and one major thing is just how empty Hoo Junction yard is. It looks ridiculous.

A few wagons would have made it so much better.

German routes have layers using other stock, and this would have been a perfect excuse to do the same for a UK route. A few 66s working to and from the yard would have brought a huge amount of extra immersion.

 

They need something in there, I know people will be against me saying this because this forum is mostly about positive encouragement, but DTG are being extremely lazy with these DLC’s lately.

TSW 2 is in its first year where the content should be exciting, instead we’re getting below standard routes, that aren’t realistically re-created, and cloned trains in most releases.

 

I would like some freight in there even if AI or static, it is all about immersion and makes it look lived in.

 

I agree. I despaired when I saw that. Why are DTG incapable of adding layers to routes outside of Germany? Even in NTP they added some wagons here and there.

 

To be fair, this isn't a layer issue, it's just how DTG does it. German routes have layers yet all the yards (except a few rare ones used by services) are completely empty.

 

Not in my experience.

 

Is there a developmental reason that Hoo yard is the way it is? You have 66's in game, even a couple of AI versions stored in the yard would be an improvement.

I don't want to get into asking for the modelling of freight wagons just for Hoo yard, and I know that you'd probably still get complaints about something, but surely just having 66's there is better than absolutely nothing.

I respect that it's an incredible undertaking to make routes and optimise them and so forth, but you guys do choose which ones to make, so surely some discussion must of taken place surrounding Hoo yard.

 

One possibility is having static trains that are better on resource usage. As was said in that Düren thread, these would have collision but you couldn't move them.

I think I did see one parked 375 somewhere on the route.

 

If it makes you feel any better, the German switchyards are mostly empty too.

 

I just drove the London-Faversham route in TS1 and the Hoo Junction yard is empty there as well. That's no reason not to do better in TSW though but it seems a precedent was set

 

There’s nothing to add layers with. All the German routes are set in the same time period and use the same or similar trains. With UK there is only the Class 66 and a couple of wagon types to play with for modern routes. Because the route is what it is, it’s actually a shame that you have to pass a yard at all because there was never going to be anything put in it as there is no freight on the route. I don’t know what would normally be in that yard, but there needs to be a selection of rudimentary static train models created to fill the emptiness on routes, especially if there is no plan to ever use the areas that are empty. Give it a fancy name like the DTG atmospheric collection and make a feature out of it. We could play ‘spot the generic wagon’ instead of ‘spot the empty yard’. It would be fun.

 

TS has the wonderful thing called an editor which allows you to fill up the yard with anything. TSW we are stuck with whatever DTG gives us sadly.

 

It's a shame that this is all you have to say on the thread. It seems sometimes you'd rather provoke than actually comment on the issues at hand.

 

Hoo yard is a permanent way maintenance yard so is mainly full of 66s, aggreggate wagons and occasionally engineers trains on the south side and on the north side are sleeper sets and so on.
Something like https://www.armstrongpowerhouse.com/rolling_stock/wagon/jna-c_wagon_pack would be useful in many sidings throughout the country.
Also on this route you will get aggregate runs from the Medway Valley lines running aggregates using hoppers (similar to the ones on GWE, so a repaint) and tankers coming from Cliffe which joins from the North side of Hoo Junction (not sure if we have one in game as yet)
The only freight locos we have are 66s and 59s, and those occasional engineer units

 

I have thought this for other routes. GWE springs to mind so does NTP and TVL There is simply no atmosphere with the yards looking so sterile. It doesn't have to be full blown models sat in yards. Cardboard cutouts would be better then tumbleweed blowing through them.
there has to be a solution

 

True...I was speaking more from the perspective of the average user who wouldn't touch the editor (eg me). This was within one of the official scenarios...empty hoo junction yard the same as it will be in TSW2

Something the TS1 version does have though is a decent amount of AI traffic (at Ebbsfleet there was also an AI service crossing overhead on the track to Dartford)....little touches like this add to the immersion

 

A shame indeed, considering some discussion would probably go a long way to gaining understanding behind most of these issues.

Instead we have to deal with sarcasm and arrogance, which they get away with because of how many people are just ok with being sold anything.

 

Why can't UK DLCs do similar to German ones in these cases? Throw in GWE/ECW 66 with aggregate cars, hell even the containers can help. Have us run more stuff on the route. And one or two freight layers are NOT going to create the HMA problem. Give the route some traffic

 

We're taking onboard all the comments that have come up from the first preview and will discuss them in more depth in the next one.

 

Do a repaint on the aggregate wagons and have them port in South of Strood and out at Northfleet. Not drivable but as AI only and only if you have GWE anyway
No container traffic on this line, but ballast wagons would be a nice addition

 

I'd take them in a somewhat inaccurate livery over not there at all.

 

Adding the repaint to GWE and then as a minor layer in SEHS would solve the issue (so long as you have GWE I guess)

 

I remember on one stream, Matt was asked why the yards are so empty. It had to do with the 24hour services, if placed a static asset on a siding, it would be there for all services meaning that section could not be used at all. Not like scenarios in TSclassic where the world is built anew for each instance.

From my understanding of the explanation, static rolling stock and locomotives, for the timetabled services would effectively restrict those elements form the overall track planes. Not in scenarios, not sure if there would be such a problem. Hopefully Sam or Matt can address this in their next stream.

EDIT - corrections to the auto-corrections of my typing..... :-( Rolling not roofing stock

 

But if there is no reasonable use for those sidings on a new layer, like at Hoo where there's very little trackage either way, surely it isn't restricting any future possibilities?

 

That is something they will have to answer - Not into speculation myself - but just passing on the reasoning I had heard.

 

It’s not arrogance if it’s been a proven behaviour.

There are multiple users in different threads who have in the same paragraph stated issues with an item, said that they’re disappointed with such things, and ended with stating they’ll be buying regardless.

 

That's arrogance?
I would apply that word to rather different behavior. Like slamming users who actually buy the products (that keep DTG in business) as, by implication, rubes and suckers.

 

You’re putting words into my mouth now, and derailing the topic into other unnecessary areas, feel free to carry on, but I won’t be participating.

 

There might be some truth to this, but I think this is more of just a generic excuse (I too watched the stream where Matt claimed this to be the case). We are talking huge yards, depots, and lots of sidings. Places they will never use for a timetable scenario. Personally, this is one of my biggest gripes with the game. It feels very dead, most of the time. Especially in huge freight yards where there normally would be hundreds of train cars and locos, and you see 5 train cars over in the distance, and 2 locos park in the middle of the yard. Makes me sad, very sad. Not to mention it blows a good portion of my immersion right out the proverbial window.

I have said it before on these forums, and I'll repeat myself again - a little more AI traffic, and some more train cars and locos in the yards, depots, and on the sidings, would go a long, a very long, way towards more immersion / greater enjoyment / my willingness to spend more money on future DTG train DLC. It does not have to be perfect, a 100% realistic amount, but as it stands...it's laughable, at best. This is why in the past while still playing OGTS I loved to get scenario packs from places like AP, or just from one of the many super-talented scenario creators in the Workshop. For me, the most important thing they did was to breath some life into an otherwise lifeless world. Good example, my perhaps favorite route of all times, Woodhead, with it's vast amount of yards and sidings, and most of the time just...empty, oh so empty.

I just love it when I see another train coming towards me in the distance, feeling a bit of excitement almost, "what do we have here", trying to spot what it is. Or driving by a yard/siding and something is going on there. Maybe just a couple locos getting moved, or some minor shunting, but things happening, the world is alive, and not just a sterile wasteland of tracks. Miles and miles of nothing but "dead" tracks. I think this is especially important in TSW, now we are actually a "real person" in game, not just the train itself.

Performance reasons, is my guess. Or rather, I'm convinced it is. I doubt this will ever change, though, since it was the exact same way in OGTS. However, there at least we had all the 3rd party and workshop stuff available to us. I used to see a route released by DTG as a canvas of sorts, with just the basics on it, for others to "paint a pretty picture" on. My only real hope nowadays as far as TSW goes, is that one day the scenario editor, planner, whatever tool will be powerful enough so that people can create those types of more immersive scenarios once again, and then to be able to share them with the rest of us. Not holding my breath though, and if it will ever come around, it's not going to be anytime soon, unfortunately.

 

If this is really the reason for the lack of AI and empty yards, it will become less and less relevant as time goes by. Looking at the specs for the new generation of consoles, they are very capable machines with plenty of horsepower and many of us on PC can handle more than we're currently asked to do. I think that quite soon performance will not be an issue. Parity won't be a problem across the platforms and we can have more immersive gameplay.

 

As well as DTG's stated commitment to improve optimization.

 

I'm on PC too. Not a beast, but decent enough, I'd say. About the new generation of consoles - I've had a PS5 from release day back in November (love you wifey and your surprises <3 ), and it's a BEAST!! I love it!! I don't use it for TSW though, but for other gaming. So yes, you are definitely right in what you say should be the future, but what worries me greatly is DTGs track history on the matter. The emptiness of their worlds has always been there, still is, and well "tomorrow doesn't look too good either". I sincerely hope they with the power available in modern PCs and consoles, will change it, i.e. add more rolling stock to the world. I really, really do. But, something deep inside me, don't dare to believe it.

As long as they feel that they have to cater to all the people with older / slower systems, they will, and I get it. They are our train bros too, and should be able to play and enjoy the game just as much as the people with cutting-edge-technology state-of-the-art hardware do. That's why I think it is so important that we get a good, well developed, highly functional, feature filled scenario editor fully capable of SHARING!! I think this particular avenue is the one they must to go down for it to happen. It's not like they could just add a few sliders in the options with min. ai trains -> max. ai trains. All that would happen then is that everyone, and their mama, would pull the slider all the way to the max...and then the screams of bloody murder would once again start echoing throughout the halls of these forums, maybe stronger than ever before.

Crosstie - Also, IL Chicago, yes/no? Just curious...

 

This is the most negative forum I frequent. No other forum that I am a member of is anywhere near as negative this. Train Simulator is far more positive than Train Sim World and it too is more negative that others.

That being said, speaking about empty yards, I am still bitter about the industrial area on the Oakville Subdivision. More than half the yards is inaccessible. The original documentation looked like we would have access to the whole thing. So that gets my vote for least favorite.

 

"This forum is the most negative I know, let me throw some negativity in." Top tier irony...

But to the point - I would say the state of the forum is a combination of passionate fans (let's face it, railfans are just... something else) and a product with a ton of potential being mostly wasted. You see mostly negative talk because that's feedback, that's what's being talked about. Throw in a question here in PC Discussion about HMA and aside from low FPS, you'll get mostly positive feedback. We know it's a solid route and if someone asks, we tell them. But we mostly discuss things being broken or underwhelming because we want them to be as solid as HMA, probably even more. Negativity pushed DTG into making Preserved Collection completely compatible and that was a big win. If there was no screaming about it, you wouldn't be able to combine anything from TSW2020 and TSW2. As soon as every route coming out will be 8/10 or above, I will be happy to make one positive thread after another. Until then I'll do my best to push the rest up there.

 

I dare you to visit the forums of Wargaming (who make World of Tanks) if you want to see a negative community!

This community has always gone through stages. It's happy, then DTG do a stunt like this or West Coast Mainline South.

 

Been here three years or so, waiting for the happy part.
You will always see people saying what they want to see, and therefore coming across as negative on forums such as this. Fact of life
And yes, "train fans" are "something else" as stated above.

 

Just to throw a bit of perspective into Hoo Junction. I worked trains in and out of there for a week about 2 years ago. My memories of that week are as follows.

The down yard is often empty, with trains brought into the yard, another loco coupled to the end of the wagons to make a top and tail train, with trains then shunted to the Up yard for stabling and discharging etc.

Most of the roads in the Up yard were full of DB Cargo's old wagons that were not fit for service.

There would be about 4 locos in the up yard and about 20 to 30 JNA's and salmon wagons for old rails.

They could place some static JNA assets and a few low Res 66's in the yard as static items, but it depends how the resource load available I guess.

 

Same here... I think I joined in 2018 and have seen nothing but complaints. Of course complaints are valid, but 90% of this forum seems to be complaints over major things or simple things such as the way a blade of grass appears. SMDH.

 

Click your profile pic and it tells you your joining date... Jan 20 2019 for you, so two years 5 days to date

 

Agreed that It wouldn't seem that hard or resource-heavy to create decorative rolling stock as static assets like buildings and platforms.

Heck, there are those cabooses on SPG!

 

To be honest im quite glad there there isn't any freight duties on this route, I think we need to move to another completely different diesel loco rather than the 66.
I think it would have just been better if there were static wagons placed around Hoo Junction. At least it would make it feel less dead and boring.

 

It would fit this route though. I've only ever seen 66 and 59s in Hoo yard and this is set present day. An engineer's train would be good, but unlikely

 

Personally I’m still looking forward to this.
Sure I’d be happy if they delayed the release and fix a few minor inaccuracies.
Ballast colour, a few wagons in sidings, etc..
After all they delayed the launch of Tsw2 for similar reasons

If you feel these forums are grumpy try discord.
Rail fans are naturally obsessive but some feel very entitled with little regard to the cost or reasons for a decision.

 

A loco DLC of a UK maintentance of way train consist would be great, it would fit on most routes too, modern ones using the 66 and older ones using something from NTP or TVL. If the dispatcher is dynamic you ought to be able to just run up and down as you fancy and the other traffic should react to your presence.

 

A yard full of class 66's, I shudder at the thought of that . I personally can't stand the things, that really would be a yard full of despair!

I agree yards being totally empty do not look right, a couple of lower res static consists would make quite a difference.

 

I read somewhere that Hoo yard was the home yard of the tunnel linings for the Channel Tunnel with 3x locos hauling them, but I can't find the ref now

 

PTGrail also mentioned this in one of his freight runs from Hoo Yard.

 

I miss PTG rail.

 

So do I, his channel was the perfect combination of TS content and documentaries.