South Eastern High Speed - A Rushed Made Route?

If it's a true successor to TS1 it'll have the same, if not better, tracklaying tools. In TS1 you can just swap track in situ, no relaying required.

 

This did come up in one of pre release steams for the LGV, Sam basically said if the route does well that they would look to do more French routes in the future, but I really don't think it's fair to gauge interest on French DLC with such a specialised line that the LGV is, the same goes for any type of rail operations, you cannot take one particular sector of rail, and gauge the interest of the entire countries rail network, based on just one DLC.

 

Yes, but this is only if it's on the same track rule, and doing this after laying can cause a lot of graphical issues, especially with junctions, crossovers etc. Also if they haven't included it as part of the track rule in the first place I'm not sure they can add it later, it has to be there at the start.

Either way I don't know why they just didn't do this in the first place before laying the track, rather than using one ballast for the whole route.

It might be an unreal engine issue who knows.

 

What because my point was never about splitting meshes? My point is about changing the entire route ballast to grey. It always was. That's what I've done. That takes 20 minutes. What you're arguing with me about is something completely different. You're talking about increasing the number separable of world planes. For that reason, I'm not going to say any more. Enjoy the GWE ballast mod and maybe try it yourself.

 

On a side note, would a set of crossing gates come down for as long as they did in the stream?

It seemed an awful long time, given that the train was still loading passengers, for the gates to be down. On videos I’ve seen of idiots ignoring the crossing gates, said idiots only just got across the line in time to see another day. Which suggests the gates come down relatively late.

 

A stopped train and a moving train would obviously take different times to close the distance, and not all signals would be the same distance from a crossing, only a minimum safety distance would apply, I live quite close to a crossing that is on the Trans-Pennine line, and that crossing has quite a long down time before a train passing.

 

That's literally how the cars have behaved in this game since when it was called CSX Heavy Haul. I mean it's better than TS1 where cars just randomly appear and disappear.

 

You were obviously implying that it would take DTG 20 minutes to make the track ballast on that part of the route grey. Now you've changed your mind cause you got called out. That mod has way too bright ballast for GWE but thanks anyway.

 

Fair enough. I’ve never been stopped at a crossing to know if it was realistic or not. It just stuck out for me on the video, but if it’s realistic all is good.

 

I'm not aware of how the Gillingham crossing works, just that there are crossings that can be down for a while, but Matt did forget to open the train doors, so in the video it was down for about minute more than it should of been.

 

Gillingham's normally down for about two minutes either way for a single train unless the train's to or from depot
Most I've seen in multiple on a single "down" has been four

 

Do you see where I'm coming from. Do you see where I have clearly stated and recognised that the entire route ballast will change from brown to grey? You don't seem to have picked up on that. You really didn't.

 

Right but I was never saying about changing the whole track, just the HS1 parts. You don't seem to have picked up on that, you really don't. Did you even read my replies or just your side of the conversation? I clearly stated that you wouldn't be able to make just parts, PARTS of the track ballast a different colour without relaying (if you're lucky you might just be able to switch the track texture, VERY LUCKY), which is what people were asking for, for the HS1 track. Yes its easy to make the whole ballast a bright grey but that makes a lot of the traditional third rail track now look bad, you can't just source one picture of Hoo Jct either and say oh hey they can make it all lighter. Go look at a picture of Chatham station for example and hey I can say that all the track ballast should be brown. So now they've made all the ballast light grey they've got another section of track that looks all wrong. 20 minutes wasted. It's not a simple fix without ruining (in your eyes) the track that currently looks right.

People here are so focused on the hate train right now they refuse to see sense in any counter-argument. I've gone through the video and sourced the fact that there not using the "covid timetable" but people are still saying that they are, this clearly isn't worth my time when you're all acting like sharks with blood in the water. Have a nice day

 

Depending on the crossing- the full barrier variants modelled are always protected by a signal and usually close around 2 minutes before the train arrives so it’s fairly realistic.

Although I do agree on slow lines the waiting time should be reduced as it encourages jumpers. The CCTV videos you see are normally people getting bored after 2 minutes or see one train pass and assume that’s the only train- forgetting about something coming on the other line. Obviously there’s some who are just stupid.

On secondary lines you can often get Half barrier automatic crossings which will come down around 30 seconds before the train passes. The lower speeds means some trains will be able to stop in case of emergency but freights wouldn’t. These aren’t linked to signals.
These latter ones do worry me but the failure rate is very low and the drivers stay on their toes.

 

Wowsers there have been a lot of posts on this thread today.

If you look on the TSW2 screenshot posted here, the areas where the fences ought to be is not textured, leading to my belief that the fences are, or were, intended to be placed there. This takes out the possibility that they have left them out for artistic reasons and leads to there being only a few possibilities.

1. They are putting the fences in, they just haven’t done it yet in that dev build.
2. They were intending to put them in and the bosses have called time on the development of the route before they did.
3. They had put them in and they affected performance so badly, or looked so awful popping in just in front of the player, that they had to be removed.

If it was one of these then in turn for DTG it was..

1. a huge mistake showing us that dev build
2. the wrong decision and it should be rectified
3. a mistake not telling us that in the stream.

Although I’m still not coming round to thinking the route release should be delayed I do think answers to all the main issues raised do need to come very soon.

 

Very good possibilities you’ve stated there, and I agree, these things definitely need to be talked about and/or resolved before release.

The worst possible outcome would be for DTG to stay completely silent and release the route as it looks in the above pictures.

 

Right near me, the southern portion of the US East Coast main line, the gates come down quite early because the trigger magnets are located a looooooong way back. This is because what runs on that line are either monstrously heavy 2-mile freights, which can't stop quickly at all, or Amtrak barreling through at 100 mph.

OTOH, the gates come up immediately after the train clears (unless there happens to be another train coming).

 

Agreed, I am looking forward to the next SEHS stream as DTG Protagonist (Sam) said earlier in this thread that they were going to address the issues such as with the ballast colour and HS1 fencing in the next stream.

 

I'm going to guess that TS1 routes and TSW1/2 route are built very differently. I could be wrong however I see things which are symptomatic of playing all the right notes, but not in the right order.

Matt explained how the routes were created a few weeks ago on the Christmas Q&A stream. Very insightful. A team does the track, a team makes the track assets, a team looks after the terrain and scenery, another the signals and so on.

However who's at the wheel to make sure it all comes together in a faithful way that give the hardworking teams justice; that their crafted models and sounds are integrated in way that everyone can appreciate?

It's quite a subtle point but it's been bugging me. This seemed to work well with LGV, however British Routes in real life are very idiosyncratic. They've managed to represent the East Kent re-signaling impressively, so credit for that.

Showing the infrastructure differences on the Purfleet and Tilbury Line adjacent to the HS1 equipment was a highlight in the 2014 version of the route. It really loses the essence. It's not a question of quality, the individual teams have almost certainly done their job; on the strength of the preview steam it's just missing something - things already mentioned here.

I thought LGV was a real 'breakout' route (nice phrase Wivensold .

Why put Easter eggs in p-way huts when you've miss modelled the alignment and elevation at Daggenham?
Why does the Tilbury Line look like it's being fed by the same OHLE system as HS1? These things matter - it's not a massively long route so this sort of stuff needs to be right.

I know, I know, the Easter eggs in the plate layers hut would have had no detriment to any other aspect of the product etc. etc.

SEHS was my favorite route for TS2014, I hear that a lot, I hope DTG put the release date back and just have another think.

Yes, I'm a 32 year old man having opinions about playing trains. But if you're gonna do a job...

 

The little easter eggs in the huts were probably something that engineer did in some free time because they could (same how the PIS on Bakerloo came about - it was being worked on in someone's spare time, and they used the 2-week delay to TSW2 to actually implement it.

 

Yes and that's great, it shows that there are people at DTG who go that extra mile with things, and we all love a good easter egg, however the main points being raised in bringing that up were A). That performance cannot of been something that was an overhanging concern, since the development team would of been looking to save space on assets used, and B). That the consistency among development teams is all over the place, we have entire DLC's full of passion, certain areas of DLC's that show really awesome attention to detail, but then we have stuff that is just shoddy.

We need to DTG to bring this inconsistency into line, because if their individual engineers are trusted to work on separate segments of route, then surely somebody MUST be looking at the route as an entirety and comparing it to their reference material to ensure we get a good representation of the route.

We need DTG to enter into a discussion with us regarding their design and development decisions, because they are all over the place.

It's a shame that DTG act like they're guarding nuclear launch codes when we ask for explanations or even simple information regarding the quality and content of a route, this community will not have a reasonable expectation when it comes to content, because the quality keeps fluctuating.

 

There are a few peak services that start at Ebbsfleet (lower platforms). It’s a shame these don’t appear to be included as an alternative to the Faversham to St Pancras journeys.

 

First post brilliant, second post really good. Didn’t read 7 pages of two and fro but can I kindly address the elephant in the room. Not to start trouble but; if we all feel it’s rushed. I haven’t watched the streams but so far I haven’t seen what UE4 can do with sounds; given the current climate of recording trains; you could let them off this one time, but don’t buy it. Same with WCML on TS2021, everyone put their tupence in and it’s getting fixed. Just don’t buy it.

 

I might have missed it, but it appears the staff platform at Hoo Junction Halt is completely missing. Can anyone else confirm this is the case?

 

it's missing, the up staff halt is just a portakabin, and the down halt is just not there.

 

So, whilst I will continue to reserve full judgement of SEHS until I’ve seen all the streams and played the route, which I’ll definitely be buying, here are my initial likes, dislikes and added thoughts.

I like ...

1. The fact the Trainbow livery is only on 395 012 and this livery will only be seen if 395 012 is running and spotted on the route. I like it cannot be selected by the player and is assigned randomly - like it would be in real life depending on which driver is assigned to which train.
2. The crossing gates.
3. The more informative PIS on station platforms.
4. The new yellow colour of the signals.
5. The signals turning green with the train doors open.
6. The fact the lower right HUD changes from Kilometres to Miles per hour following the power changeover.
7. The inclusion of the ‘U-475 Black Widow’ Soviet submarine at Strood on the River Medway.
8. The level of detail in the stations and the train models, including the liveries.
9. The mix between high speed and traditional speed service on one route.

I dislike ...

1. The abandoned Rochester station platforms looking brand new. In real life, these look a little dilapidated and full of weeds.
2. The 375 sounding like the 377, which means neither train sounds true to life.
3. The lighting in the 395 passenger compartment, which is far too bright. Almost solarium bright.
4. That the 375 has such a limited role on the route.
5. Hoo junction being a ghost town. Empty static wagons as scenery would suffice - just to inject some life into the yards.
6. The PIS display on the front of the 375. It’s too big - especially the text.
7. That the tunnels have some light bleed inside them. This light is not from the trains headlights or lights within the tunnel.
8. The fact the upper right HUD doesn’t display the distance to next signal/speed limit correctly. It was showing Miles when on the Kilometre section of the route. The distance to next station in the top left was also showing miles when on the Kilometre section of the route.
9. The missing track sounds.
10. The lack of bounce and roll in the train as it moves over the track i.e. not being able to see the coaches moving independently of each other very clearly (this is something that’s missing from practically every train).
11. That we can’t drive the 395 into the lower platforms at Ebbsfleet.
12. That the timetable seems truncated.
13. The missing fencing between HS1 and the regular Network Rail lines after leaving London Tunnel 2 towards Ebbsfleet.
14. The overuse of Bloom with no option to disable it on consoles.
15. That the livery on the 395 can look a bit too light in colour compared to the real life livery.
16. That there is shared line equipment between HS1 and the slower, traditional lines after leaving London Tunnel 2 towards Ebbsfleet.
17. Seeing floating cars in car parks.

Other thoughts ...

1. The 395 on third rail is very slow to accelerate and stop.
2. Stopping at Faversham, Matt stopped way beyond the stop marker but still got 500 points.
3. When Matt chose the 375 there was an option to change livery. Perhaps one he has made in the Livery Editor.

 

I noticed this too, and assumed it had been demolished for some reason, but looking on Google - no.


In fact, there appears to be quite a bit of vegetation missing, also the track on the left hand side has a pretty severely broken rail

 

We don't all feel it's rushed!

 

Great post! matjamca

 

It's still there in real life, however DTG haven't included it.

 

Excellent post. I agree with pretty much all of this. I saw the change livery too. I was wondering if it might be because we can use the 377 on the route but as you say it's probably just a livery Matt created.

 

This seems to be a bug as he had the colourful stopping distance meters on all other station and not here meaning there was no measured stop at Faversham.

 

DTG Protagonist logs on Monday 25th January....

Looks at this post for dev feedback, reads this for two hours shaking his head saying “don’t buy it then,we don’t force you”, bangs face on table, now refuses to do Wednesday live stream with TrainSim-Matt after emailing the feedback with following notes...

“Grey ballast, turn sound up, draw fence, lock post”

 

They are much slower to accelerate on 750DC, but the braking performance should be practically identical between the two voltages.

 

Wow, these are supposed to be the same location? That's really empty and bare in the TSW one. No platform, no grass, pretty much no scenery at all.

If this is the release version, then that's really sad. Definitely not up to TSW standards, they should really work a bit more on the scenery.

 

Unfortunately it's more than just those few things. Look at the Hoo Junction Yard comparison photos, they're not even similar. The lack of a platform being a pretty major omission.

Of course DTG don't force us to buy anything, but they should want us to buy it. That's the important and major difference.

 

Not entirely. While the automatic (air) brake would be unaffected, the dynamic (electric) brake should be less effective under DC.

 

Thought it sounded different. Could of done something there

 

The air is boosted to compensate I believe.

 

Is odd why only the German routes seem to get a busy time table. Auto generation has not done well at all. There is visual scenary which hasn't been created which should be there.

I saw in the video only 5 scenarios on the dev build.
Sounds could of been improved over 377. Should of been.
But we're have to wait years to come to better Quality routes but Saying that German routes get a better experience.

 

German routes are typically busier because most of them are either crammed with freight services (like MSB) or have S-bahn services, which run very frequently and have a load of stops, also they use layering.

Also, I believe all routes come with 5 scenarios.

I wonder if they're not layering in freight services because of the memory problems that were experienced on the Munich route, therefore they're not layering other stuff in until that's sorted? Just a thought.

 

The 375 livery selector is just selecting between 4, 8 and 12 car varients I believe, not different paint schemes. Looking forward to tomorrow to see what we are told and also the roadmap on Tuesday which is always a pretty major day and a guaranteed stream.

 

Hopefully you have saved alot of people £25. Cant wait to see how all this feedback is ignored.

TSW2, a next-gen train simulator which is worse at representing a route than a train simulator from 2013 and has no next gen qualities in any department, by DTG. FEEL THE (MISSING) DETAILS!

Sometimes its easy to laugh and joke about how bad things are, even 4 years later, but then you have to remember the old saying "if you cant do the little things right, you'll never be able to do the big things right"...sometimes showing us passion rather than talking about it will make us spend more. I do also believe Sam told us to judge them on their actions rather than their words.....big oof

 

No, we all don’t, but most of us do!

 

I wouldn't be suprised if that was his thoughts

 

I don't think the feedback will be ignored but it wouldn't be a surprise to be honest

 

MSB has 9, SPG and RSN 8.

 

I didn't buy lgv because it was simply too short for the speeds you would be doing. It would've gotten boring for me very quickly.

 

I bought it, and yes, it did get boring rather quickly.

 

And I also think IOW has 6.