I have found a way to fix the brakes hissing and sticking on when you accidental use ‘Release\ instead of ‘Running’. It is so easy to do, but I have managed to come up with an easy way to fix it without exiting the game or scenario. It’ll make you a minute or so late but better than nothing. Now whether this is exactly true to life or whether it is actually a bug - this method that I have found does actually ‘reset’ so to speak so the loco and brakes work perfectly until you hit Release again etc if it isn’t a bug let’s hope DTG make it much harder to activate the ‘release’ than currently. Like holding the brake handle button / key down for longer before it slips over into Release perhaps?
I’ve had the brakes creep on without ever going into release. A tiny application of release shouldn’t overcharge the brakes. There’s definitely some kind of bug going on but if you do go into release at any point (or not as the case may be), the correct method to release the overcharged system doesn’t work fully and the brakes will always creep back on. I’d also like to know this mysterious temporary fix you teased us with! It needs a fix as the Class 47 will soon be used in the Diesel Legends timetable as an option.
I think this may be even simulated on purpose as it's random and indeed the reason for the overcharge feature to exist is to avoid this situation. But maybe it's too extreme as the application should not go that high and just remain residual, as done with german trains. In real trains this effect is caused by the tolerance of the valves themselves as they are never 100% accurate. This also happens with class 31 and 45. What I do is hold lever into the overcharge position for at least 10-15s and usually this realeses brakes permanently. Cheers
You can’t do that in the Class 47. Once you get the brakes creep on, it doesn’t matter of you try to clear it with the correct procedure, they creep back on once the brake pipe has returned to normal pressure, usually a little worse each time. You end up repeating the process over and over, each time hoping you don’t need the brakes within a couple of minutes of doing it. I’ve never had it happen in the Class 45 or 31. The Class 47 has been a nightmare train really, with this and the power issue on PS4 that plagued it for a long long time in TSW2020. It be cursed, I tells ya, cursed.
The class 45 does also have the same BUG. All the rest of the diesel locos perform exactly as one would expect. The class 31 in particular is a beast of a loco and exceptional. The Class 47 is one of my favourites bar this awful brake bug it has. Temp fix until DTG get their act together and fix it. Use light keystrokes and use ‘Running’ to release the brakes in normal operation. If you accidentally hit release and notice the brakes bleeding on, this is how I fix it without quitting the scenario. Train Brake into Emergency - dump the air Then into Neutral/Shutdown position Shut the engine and whole flipping thing right down, master key off etc etc THEN - brake selector at the rear of the cab - whiz it around all options, select vacuum goods, passenger, then eventually come back around to Air Brake Passenger as it is in at default. You should hear some hissing as you select each one in turn. I have NO idea why this works, but it has sorted it on many occasions with me. Probably nothing like real life but it means the loco is then drivable again until you hit Release by accident.
It can’t really be intended. I’m not yet convinced that the issue is always caused by going into release. I’ve been driving the Class 47 and not using the brake at all (going uphill) and at a random point the brake cylinder gauge rises. As I’ve said before going into release for a tiny amount of time should not cause the issue either. The fact that the normal procedure for resetting brakes does not work shows that it is definitely a bug.
It's also been reported a few times in the Tech forums, apparently the problem occurs on consoles as well as PC.
IRL, the brake valve should be held in "Overcharge" for 60 seconds, and then not touched again for 4 minutes, until the brake pipe reads 72.5 again. If you have to brake, repeat the overcharge when it is safe to do so. If this is modelled and players aren't doing this, then perhaps it isn't a bug?
If this isn't a bug (which still hasn't been confirmed), then perhaps ingame tutorials and the interface should be adjusted to help people do the correct procedures to prevent getting into, and to get out of such a situation.
So I gave the class 47 a test run on ntp. using this thread as a guide: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/train-brake-release-overcharge.18481/ . In the first part of my journey I had no trouble with sticking brakes did notice the bc had the tendency to stay at 0.1 but that's probably an ui thing. The problems started when I saved and reloaded. After that the brakes will creep up without an input until it stopped at 4.6, needed to overcharge the brakes to release them. It kept happening a few more times. The 47 is still playable just a minor nuisance if it's indeed a bug.
I don´t think it´s really a bug. Take a look to section 3.1.2 from the WCML over Shap route manual: Rail Simulator FAQ (steamstatic.com) Different locomotives charge their brake pipes to slightly different pressures. In order to avoid dragging brakes - which is dangerous as well as inefficient - drivers are required to perform a Brake Overcharge Cycle whenever taking over a prepared train, or when fresh vehicles are coupled to their locomotive. This automatically recalibrates the distributor valves throughout the train to conform to the brake pressure of your particular locomotive. While some of the latest locomotives are fitted with automatic systems which perform a Brake Overcharge Cycle at the push of a button, the Class 47 and 87 are veteran stalwarts which require a little more attention from drivers: 1) If the train must be held stationary, apply the locomotive brake fully (‘]’ key). 2) Move and hold the train brake handle to the RELEASE position (hold ‘;’ key) for ONE MINUTE. The brake pipe pressure will be seen to climb appreciably above 5.0 bar. 3) Allow the brake handle to return to the RUNNING position. The brake pipe pressure will now slowly return to 5.0 bar over a period of several minutes. When this has completed, the overcharge cycle is complete. 4) If it is necessary to make a train brake application before the pressure has fully returned to 5.0 bar, then the Brake Overcharge Cycle procedure must be restarted from the beginning when next releasing the train brake. Drivers please note that this procedure is NOT required on vacuum braked trains, on which an equivalent recalibration is performed by pulling the manual release valves on each vehicle. This task is performed by ground staff when required. So it seems this process is required at least for the 47 and after coupling, so the effect you see could be the expected one if brakes were not calibrated. And it matches to what I already heard about overcharge being needed due to brake valves not being 100% precise nor equal on all rollingstock. If this is the case the manuals for the affected british rolling stock should also contain a similar explanation in TSW2 case. Cheers
It is a bug. I think it’s worth noting that I know how it should work and what would cause it in real life, and what should rectify it. 1. You do not ever have to go into release for it to occur. If you go into release for one nanosecond it will definitely occur. But it can occur even if you don’t, and on most journeys it will occur. 2. The procedure above does not reset the brakes permanently. When it does occur, it doesn’t matter how many times you do the correct procedure to reset the brake pipe, the problem persists and the brakes will bleed on again. People can post that procedure as many times as they like, doing it doesn’t rectify the issue on the Class 47. The brakes will creep back on even if you do not use the brakes again. As soon as the brake pipe returns to normal pressure the brakes will creep back on. 3. You do not ever have to go into release for it to occur (I thought that was worth repeating). I play on PS4 in case that makes a difference. Also, it will only occur on the Class 31 or 45 if you do go into overcharge for a long enough period of time. On those trains, it appears to be working correctly. So for those trains, you do need to go into release for it to occur, if you briefly do slip into release it will be fine, and the release procedure works. That is not the case with the Class 47. I haven’t tested it extensively on these trains because there isn’t a problem as they appear to work correctly, and I’ve never had an incidence of it happening unless I have gone into release/overcharge for an extended period (as is required to cause an actual overcharge situation in a real brake pipe). In conclusion. Incorrect use of the brakes will create this problem on all the old trains. Correct use of the brakes doesn’t prevent it happening on the Class 47. Therefore it is a bug.
The incorrect pressures along the train line and the overcharge feature are things that exist in real trains. The effect is the partial application of brakes, as seen on the game because the reference value for the release status is different between the locomotive and the coupled wagons. It´s not a matter of how long you are performing the overcharge, but at which pressure you stop overcharging. Too long overcharging does not have any side effect except that it will force the reservoirs to unlock and the brakes to release on all wagons. The problem appears when you stop overcharging below the required nominal pressure for the release status. Then the brake calibration needs to be repeated and the issue will persist. Initially you may not notice a 1% difference between locomotive and wagons and think that process was done well but it will create a very slow brake application that will change the pipe pressure over time, which is the effect that people is having in game. Even if you release brakes again (they will do it for sure) they still stay with that residual 1% and the application process will be a never ending loop till you normalize the pipe. So don´t stick to the 1 minute time for overcharging and observe the pipe needle instead. When it does not increase further you are sure overcharging came to its max limit. If pressure in cylinders indicate a complete release then you can stop overcharging and pipe should be normalized then. I had this issue with class 31 in Tees Valley yesterday after coupling to cement wagons when I was already driving and until I executed the overcharge properly I could not continue. The other times I faced it with the rest of locomotives I had to do it as well and it worked fine. As of today I won´t say if it´s implemented well or not in game, but at least it´s consistent with what you would expect on such a system. Cheers
geloxo I understand all that. After doing all that correctly, it does not stop the issue on the Class 47. The situation of a real overcharge situation is quite different to what is happening in the game for the Class 47 on a passenger service. After coupling with a Class 31, you may get this issue as you say, but when starting a passenger service in the Class 47 you should not. You can rectify it in the Class 31 because it isn’t bugged. You cannot rectify it in the Class 47 because it is bugged. I don’t really know how else to say it. Regarding incorrect use of the brake lever, going into release on the brake in the Class 47 for a tiny split second is guaranteed to cause the issue. In real life, not enough air would get into the brake pipe in that split second to cause any issues, which is why doing it to rectify a real issue needs a prolonged hold in the release position. This is on top of the fact that you don’t actually need to go into release at all for the problem to occur. If it was purely a problem at the start of a service on a Class 47 then it could be the configuration of the initial setup given to you by the game, recreating the issue you may get after coupling with a Class 31, but it can first happen half way through a service, after not using the brakes incorrectly. There is no way that could happen unless it is a bug. Repeatedly trying to assert that there isn’t a problem is not going to help us get this issue fixed. And it is a bug separate to what occurs in reality.
I just try to help here so I´m not saying that´s there´s no problem just randomly, but cause I think there´s no real bug here. I just tested it in NTP route with a passenger service to force the appearance of the residual braking. I will try to explain it with pics. Nominal brake pipe is 5 bar for full brake release. First scenario Starting with full service brake I force a brake release using the overcharge position. I hold lever at overcharge during several seconds and stop overcharging only above 5 bar. Brakes are released and you see in the second pic that I overcharged cause the pipe is ending above 5 bar when cylinders are giving a full brake release reading. Behaviour is correct when using overcharge. Second scenario (the theoretical bug) Starting at emergency brake to get a very low brake pipe I force a brake release with overcharge as before. I hold lever at overcharge position but release it before the pipe reaches it´s nominal 5 bar (at around 4 bar as you can see in second pic). Brakes are released but I have created an artificial pressure gap between locomotive and coaches. Result: brake cylinders are not fully released even if pipe reaches the nominal 5 bar pressure, as you can see on the last pic, because the 1 bar gap is still producing the partial application on the coaches behind. This is the theorethical bug case but it´s not a bug, just the expected behaviour on an air brake system that works with pressure variations to command brakes. Whenever I try to release brakes again after that point I will potentially have the same residual brake amount until I normalize the pipe above 5 bar when brake cylinders are also fully released, as in first scenario. That is what would make the pipe pressure consistent again and any further variations on it using the brake lever will apply and release brakes normally. Cheers
This is the bit you are doing that is not what the bug is about. The bug happens when you release the brakes correctly. You are deliberately creating a situation by forcing the brake into release. This will result in the same outcome but isn’t the only way it can occur. Normal behaviour and normal use of the controls would not result in the brakes not coming off, otherwise it would be a system not fit for purpose. The fact that you can deliberately make it happen does not cancel out the fact that it is also happening when operating everything correctly. In this case there should not be an issue. But there is, repeatedly. That is the bug. The bug is happening when you never ever ever go into release, or when you go into release briefly (before the brake pipe has fully returned to normal pressure) meaning an overcharge has never had chance to begin.
But do you guys have readings in the cylinders much higher that 5 when this problem occurs to you? Things like indications around 20 or 25 with brakes fully released? Because very low variations above 0 I would say are normal in the old stock due to the precission of the valves themselves, that is what I have seen in game as well, not only on the british stock but also on the american locomotives sometimes. Cheers
I’ve had readings over 5 whenever I’ve had the initial issue, held the brake in release to try and rectify it but then had to use the brake again within a couple of minutes, but usually it is about 4. It’s still enough to slow the train but not as dramatic as an actual brake application. I’ve not had it go up to 20 though. I’ve seen other trains’ brake cylinders show a decimal reading which I would say was an acceptable drift from an ideal zero. It’s much easier to notice these things in TSW2 than it was in TSW2020 as you get a numerical reading in the HUD.
