Train Sim World 2 - Hauptstrecke Hamburg - Lübeck Coming Soon!

There is a lot of signal on the dlc HMA and parking stations, where there is not a single wagon, the train will never pass through here. They are just empty stations that have no use and only take up operating memory on both consoles and PCs. If DTG removed these stations, there would certainly be room for more layers. At the moment, the HMA is without rail traffic. That's why I'm afraid it won't happen again.

 

1. Even if there were problems with layers again. I could imagine that we would then get a second timetable immediately, just like DTG is considering doing it for HMA.

2. I've already read that the S-Bahn line runs very short next to this line, so it doesn't make much sense to use extra layers for S-Bahn. So for RB and RE Services, the 143, 146,425, SKA-Talent2 and the Rapid Transit 182 would be just substitutes. To be honest, I don't see that many opportunities for extra layers on the route, but I also admit that I don't know the route very well.

3.If you look back. Up until now, German layers (with one exception SBahn on SKA ) were always there to add RE and Frieght services. But RE und Frieght Services are default on this route

4. The only thing that might make sense are Extra ICE and IC services.

 

I also think there wont be a Lot Layers, but there arent much possible.
Of course the 101, and if its coming out before HLB, i think It will have a layer, then maybe 146 for REs and 185, 155 for Freight, but S Bahn Layers are impossible, because the S Bahn Hamburg has 3rd Rail Trains (DB red Class 377? :P ).
So maybe a bit of substituting and 101/ICE, but not much more

 

I wouldn't count the 101 not being on HBL. If the 101 comes out first they definitely won't tell us until the HBL is previewed whether there is a layer for it. And even still they need to make sure the immediate bugs on the 101, if any, are fixed before they add it as a layer.

So I figure if they will tell us it will be on the next route update when they do the release stream for HBL.

 

The only way you could run 101s on Hamburg Lubeck is to have a loco at either end of the coaches, due to the lack of Cab Car and because Lubeck Hbf of a terminus, same goes for Munich

 

I’ve not lost faith in DTG, but they do make some questionable decisions, which sometimes boggle the mind.

 

Lübeck isn't a Terminus Station like Munich or a Terminus for certain services, its just a stop for ICs to e.g. Fehmarn or Kiel.

 

Looking at videos on YouTube it looks like a terminus, but looking at it on google maps, it is a through station, you are correct

 

So is Hamburg a terminal station?

 

no

 

True, that's a bummer.
Edit: OK should have kept reading, there is still a chance afterall

 

Neither Hamburg nor Lübeck are physical terminus stations, both have through tracks. However, for the regional trains, both are mostly the last stops of the services, and they turn around there.
To my knowledge, there are no IC through services in Lübeck. Definitively none to Kiel, and the one from Hamburg to Copenhagen don't take that route via Fehmarn any longer.

 

Do we have any date, when Hamburg-Lübeck is set?

 

2011+

 

Okay, the IC Services to Kiel from Hamburg are taking another route, but there are IC Services to Fehmarn, from Hamburg to Lübeck with a 101, and from Lübeck to Fehmarn with a 218

 

So I guess for extra layers we will get the Br185.2, the Br185.5 and the Br155.
Maybe we might get the 146 or 143, although I don’t think so...
The Br101 is (the source is steam) only operating on HRR, because they wrote “Can be driven in and with additional timetable tasks for the main Rhine-Ruhr route” and nothing else. Although it’s steam and it’s not always as it is written there, I fear that we won’t get the 101 on HBL.

 

I just looked at the timetable of the line, there are like 3-4 IC and 3-4 ICE. It is not much, but would add some diversity if added as a layer.

 

It need to be IC services that go beyond the stations, as there is currently no way to turn them around at an ending station.

The ice lines are served by models currently not in game, and while I would not mind them using the ice3 on them, just be prepared for them not to come...

Maybe 146 and 143 will be substitutions for the 112. 146 I believe does services in Hamburg, and maybe 112 will then also sub in for the 146 and 143 on older routes?
Regarding 155, probably not a complete layer, but possibly a substitution for any other freight train as it currently works on most German routes already.
Substitution so far has been one of the easier things to implement as it seems.

 

The BR 146 definitely runs the RE8 service now, no BR112 in front of that service anymore...
BR112 operates the RE80 and the RB81

 

That could perhaps mean that we take the 112 for RB services and the 146 brings layers for faster RE services

 

Same here

 

Why wouldn't the IC turn on the terminal. The driving car is not needed for this maneuver. All you have to do is get a second locomotive from the other side and pull out the passenger cars. He then slides these passenger cars back onto another track and the locomotive 101 moves to the front of his train. This is a basic maneuver.

 

Great, now tell DTG that they need to program an extra timetable for a shunter locomotive which is a seperate dlc to the br 101 in order to make it work on that route.
So in order to get IC services on HBL you would not only need the 101 but a shunter dlc as well. If you own just one, it won't work. Sounds like alot of work to implement considering the target audience needs to have 3 dlc.

 

One more maneuver. They use it in Prague at my express train. The train will run to the platform. The other 101 from the parking lot arrives from the other side of the train. The first 101 uncouples and the second 101 pulls the train away. The first 101 is parked on the parking track.

 

You don't need an extra locomotive. I think he simply means a second DB BR 101 that is coupled to the end. Just like the Class 52 does in the Legends of GreatWestern DLC

 

He probably meant another DB BR 101 at the other end of the train.

 

While this is an option theoretically, do you think they will actually add these maneuvers? Again it seems like alot of work in order to make a train work an a route that sees few services with it anyway...
Diesel legends had that but everything was included in that package

 

Fair point. TBH I don't even think it's 100% necessary to even add ic services since there are only 4 in a day

 

the IC are not ending there, they are continuing. And even if they were, the 101 could just run around, as neither stations are terminal stations.

 

Certainly not necessary, but of course we will take anything we can get as it directly impacts the value of not only the route, but of the 101 as well.
Now wait for them to announce no IC lines implemented on HBK, rendering all our fuss here useless

 

Four services would be enough for me. Most importantly, I would be able to drive 101 in full operation.

 

Throughout the life of TSW players of German routes have come accustomed to other items in their German collection adding to their routes through multiple extra layers and loco substitutions. There have always been limitations to this but by and large there has been a lot of interaction between routes and trains. I get the sense that this has now developed into a growing sense of entitlement and the expectation that everything German must appear on everything else German if it does so in real life. This simply isn’t possible for many reasons. If the next upgrade of TSW allows for some of the technical limitations to be overcome, it still doesn’t take away the issue that somebody has to put all of this into the game.

As it stands now, no loco DLC has added a layer to any route other than the one it is released for and extra layers only use rolling stock from previous route DLC. This is because DTG want the layers to be available to as many players as possible and more people have the previous routes than have loco DLC. As there is a finite number of layers that can be added before the game engine falls over and can’t cope, this is a good way of doing things, as more people benefit. HMA showed that it doesn’t always work out, as it did fall over under the strain. That still doesn’t stop people wanting even more layers putting into the route on PC. Rapid Transit is now getting a timetable upgrade which shows there is the capacity to put in extra hours to add layers from later routes but it is no guarantee that this is always going to be possible. Rapid Transit was very light on additional layers, wheres some other routes have plenty already and don’t necessarily need any more, or can physically take them.

It’s best just to wait and see what layers are added and not to get bogged down in what you feel you are entitled to just because something exists somewhere else in the game. It’s becoming a rather common theme on the forum these days and isn’t exclusive to the relatively well catered for fans of German rail, and it is certainly more understandable from fans of other countries that haven’t had such a good ride in TSW. I believe USA has just received its first ever loco substitution (CRR to SPG) and has yet to have an unpaid for layer in any route. You’re not so badly treated here.

 

You raise fair points. But you call it entitlement, I call it wishful thinking and looking for the potential of a release. From what I read it is less that people expect special layers to definitly be included but people hoping for further use of their content, which has happened a lot in the past. And it is a bit weird to on one hand say that it was unprecedented for loco dlc to add anything to other routes and then say well it is precedented that german content gave layers to pretty much all routes except Rapid Transit, but don't feel like it should happen again. So we are to rely on unfortunate instances but to disregard fortunate instances? Why?.The thing is that layering and substitution works so well especially in german content. That being said, I would 100% back any route for another country that would offer the same options. It just adds to the gameplay and immersion, and with german routes it has happened in the past.
Personally I don't get my hopes up much for example for the 101 to get layers in HBK, but deep inside I wish it will - not only for gameplay reasons, but also for DTG to break out of their habits of leaving loco dlc adding nothing to future content (substitution is the exception I believe).

Fortunately the insights into what Adams preservation crew can do has shown that now it is possible for older dlc (route or loco) to get new attention and functionality. Like when they added another timetable to Rapid Transit and were exploring the possibilities of getting the 143 into there as well. So who knows, maybe one day we will have IC services on HMA or ICE trains on HRR.
And I get that it can get tedious reading through all this stuff, especially if you are not that much into the specifics as others, but in the end it should show DTG that there are people who would be thrilled to get more out of their dlc.
If DTG really wants to always improve as they say, this should send them valuable feedback for the future, regardless of what will now happen with dlc like the 101 for example.
That also applies to content of other nations, why would people from Britain not feel the same excitement if there were trains that had multiple use on other routes? Maybe they should look for some future routes that would enable exactly that.

 

I agree on unreasonable expectations, however there have been instances of a loco DLC layering on multiple routes (IIRC one of the british diesels, I can't remember which one right now), so that means it's technically possible, same for using old loco DLCs on new routes (i.e. BR155 on HMA).

The BR143 is no longer used on a lot of german routes (because of the low high speed), and the 112 is actually a lot more common to see outside RSN, so it would be a huge wasted opportunity if the 112 would not sub into older routes.

Similarly, the current BR182 does not actually haul freight in the version represented in game (with the PIS screens), now that we have a proper freight Taurus (as confirmed by Matt in the Railfan Fest) I would hope it will be usable instead of the old 182.

Another thing, since TSW is constantly moving forward and evolving, the possibility of using older routes with better and newer locos would enhance both the new and old DLCs, so why not do it?

We know a substitution has to happen between trains with similar performance, so I can't image that subbing the 112 and the Taurus in place of the older 143 and 182 would be a huge technical problem, but of course I am not a developer.

Yes, a loco DLC (DB BR101) adding a layer on various routes was always far fetched but not ridiculous, considering how well known and widespread the 101 is. Also not all routes have added layers, for example there is only 1 extra layer in RRO - the MSB one, and Matt told us the problem is not the number of services itself but the number of layers and how many trains are in a particularly busy area, like Munich, so I assume adding a BR101 layer to RRO will not cause it to crash, however it might require a timetable rebuild, but seeing how forward thinking DTG is, by leaving depots and yards completely empty so that one day they could be used it seems strange they never planned for a future DB IC DLC, particularly considering the BR101 and to a lesser degree the BR120 are guaranteed best sellers.

 

good points, but you have to remember that most of these older locomotives for extra layers have-well- the same layers. You can choose from these locos and they appear randomly on the same services.

 

Substitutions and layers are different things. There is a lot of substitution, especially with German rolling stock, because it's relatively easy to do: same service, different loco. A layer, however, means adding new services to the timetable, and that's really difficult (it means basically rebuilding the timetable from scratch without removing any existing services). So, e.g., one can use the 155 DLC on many German routes, but except on its "home" route it doesn't have any services of its own; it's just a replacement for the 143 or 185. But to date DTG have never added a layer for a newer loco into an older route. That may change with RT; but, as mentioned above, RT's timetable was pretty sparse.

 

German content has had a lot of layers using trains from other route DLC and then locos (and only the locos), including locos from loco DLC substitute for similar powered locos on any service it is allowed on. The loco DLC itself including its associated rolling stock has never added services to any route other than the route it is released for. I’m not saying it shouldn’t happen, I’m only saying that it can’t always happen with everything that is released and some people, not all, seem to think that they are entitled to have something everywhere regardless of the way things are done and go to great lengths to berate DTG for it.

There have been railtours on a couple of UK routes, that use the passenger trains included in NTP as the base for the layer and then on top of that other locos, including those from loco DLC, substitute in for the loco in the railtour services. No loco DLC with its associated wagons have added layers into routes other than the route they were released for. Some locos from loco DLC also substitute into existing services on WSR but again don’t add layers. Some locos like the Class 66 and Class 101 have just been released again in another routes like the Dostos. The Diesel Legends pack was an experimental mixing up of several BR blue trains and was a first of its kind that used (resold) some existing stock and some substitution from NTP, the BR Heavy Freight pack, and the Class 31. A lot of things are technically possible but so far only the Diesel legends has added anything to UK stock that doesn’t follow the same substitution and layering that the German routes have had in the past. It was also a paid DLC in itself and not free layers like in other routes.

That’s the substitution of locos into one layer, not several layers, but the fact that there are these layers in all German routes is what separates them out as being better value overall. It’s not a perfect system but has been used fairly well whenever it can and the German routes all being the same operator has meant it can be done. I should imagine it will continue to be done, even done better, but we should not expect it to be exactly what we want just because the stock exists in the game.

 

I've not been here long, but I've read many threads as an owner of the game and many DLCs.
So for YOU DTG, please read:

Moaning about things - Ignore
Suggesting things that are easy to implement - Pass to our team
Fixing what is broken - Ignore

As a customer, please respect us.

 

I apologize for not making the distinction between layering and substitution clear on my first post.

About HHL, (IMO) it's all about substitution (which I hope will happen).

The problem with layering is about the BR101 DLC and while I won't bash DTG for not making a huge comprehensive IC DLC for the price of a normal loco DLC, I still believe on some routes that have 2 or 3 ICs per day it could have been possible to include them, similarly to the railtours (particularly in SKA, so that everyone that owns the DLC could have a chance to max the loco out to its max speed of 200km/h and use LZB), but I'm sure if they haven't done it there must be a reason I guess...

Anyway I can see why people criticise DTG for lack of substitutions and layering, it's a huge amount of wasted potential and is right in your face, you have that route where X trains runs, you have X train but you can't use it... that is something I personally find pretty frustrating as well, but of course this is not a justification to berate DTG and write 1000 posts accusing them of being lazy or something

 

I certainly think if there are trains present in the game that could add a handful of journeys throughout the day to a route, a couple of IC services being similar to the railtours in the UK content (in ECW it is just the one run) and it doesn’t affect the other layers or performance, it would be worth the small amount of time putting them in to increase variety in a route. As far as I understand it, the technical limitations at present come partly from the number of unique vehicles used in a route and appearing at any one time, so even a single instance of an extra train can affect the performance of the route. Going back and adding a couple of services to an older route when something new comes out is limited by the testing that has to be done as well, as the whole timetable may have to be retested with the new content.

With the announcement of Rush Hour, which seems to indicate that busier timetables will be possible, there may be more chance of the routes becoming more like how most players want them, busy with as much variety as possible, but that remains to be seen when details come out about it. Until then DTG have a delicate balancing act when it comes to layers and substitution based on performance, dev time and maximising the variety of content for as many players as possible. That’s why I say that as much as we all want to see all of our stuff everywhere we also have to understand why it’s not always possible, and that’s why I don’t complain about it. You are right though, it can be frustrating.

There is also the issue of routes not coming with many new trains when there is older rolling stock available, coming with reused trains or rolling stock instead, and that adds to a sense that some routes aren’t as good value as others, and some loco DLC having very limited use. All understandable concerns but there is a balance to strike there as well on both sides. People want more new trains as well as more use for the ones they already own. It’s hard to do both at the same time. Some DLC just is better value than others, especially if you add in players tastes into the equation, but as the number of vehicles that have come before increases, the chance of them being reused also increases. The best route DTG make might yet come out that uses no new trains at all, you never know. The limited use of loco DLC elsewhere is probably the most frustrating bit for some. I do understand the frustrations people have.

 

A lot has already been posted in this thread, but my sparse time prevented me from reading every single post.
I've noticed that the route is abbreviated as HBL or HBK, which seems rather odd. It's common knowledge that HH and HL are the abbreviations for Hamburg and Lübeck on our licence plates, so HHL would be much more appealing!

But what do I expect ... maybe I should expect that common knowledge is just irrelevant when the gardener gets to select which abbreviation to use.

 

I like the abbreviation HBK, it reminds me of the heart break kid Shawn Michaels every time
Even when I read HBL I immediately have the man himself before my eyes

 

Even the title of the upcoming DLC would be easily recognisable (Hauptstrecke Hamburg - Lübeck).

 

OMG we are going to argue over which abbreviations people use? Wow this forum has gotten so petty!! Not just this thread either. Thats like me as a Canadian telling a Brit that they pronounce aluminum wrong LOL.

 

I appreciate diverse opinions, but TSW isn't about a fictional universe. It depicts reality and uses existing RL abbreviations. Why not in this case? I don't get it.

 

Well, DTG do have their own ideas about the abbreviations. Whereas HMA would have been in line with SKA's abbreviation, it was instead abbreviated to MAG. Both HBL and HBK would follow the MAG pattern. Be that as it may, I think we all understand what we're talking about no matter what abbreviation we use

 

That's right, I was just disappointed by this ignorance ... ^^
And that was even before I detected the first bug (trophy requirements).

In fact, I'm expecting that the text on the route maps (collectables) again won't be in German, but rather be a mixture of English and German (like "Hauptstrecke Hamburg to Lübeck").

 

Personally I did not see anyone argue here, just some exchanges of opinions? Some calm banter? Seemed all happy and dandy to me...

 

Yes, the S-Bahn uses a 3rd rail, but the classes currently in use are 472/473, 474/874 and 490.
Old classes that have been decommissioned are 471/871 and 470/870. I did many trips in both during my 18 years in HH.

 

About IC and ICE lines between Hamburg and Lübeck: there are only few, the IC 31 occasionally, the IC 30 on weekends and the ICE 25.
Rolling stock for the ICE includes ICE 1, ICE 2 and ICE 4.
The RE lines in use on this route are numbers 8, 80, 81, 83 and 85.
(source: German Wikipedia)