Br 101 Bugs And Errors List

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Jo_Kim, Apr 22, 2021.

  1. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    899
    This is a list of bugs and errors I found while driving the BR 101. The list might be extended in future. The list only contains short entries, for further details put your questions in this thread.

    BR 101:
    • Too much wheel slip in wet conditions [needs traction force calculations to verify]
    • Displays copied from Bombardier Traxx
    • Camera of centre (shifted to the left)
    • Doors open before the train stops
    • Dynamic brake lever doesn't latch in the deactivated position (most front position)
    • Voice alert "Zugbeeinflussung" sometimes looping after releasing from a Zwangsbremsung
    • Whiper stops working after a Zwangsbremsung

    IC coaches:
    • Door alarm to quiet
    • Brake mode set to R instead of R+Mg
    • Crossing plates raised on AI trains
     
    Last edited: May 10, 2021
    • Like Like x 6
  2. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,675
    For me the dorr alarm and Interior light seems to work
     
  3. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    899
    The interior light was my fault as I have used the wrong switch in the cab. This was removed from the list.
    The door alarm does work but is really quiet. The real alarms are quite loud so they need some adjustment in the game.
    Example:
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  4. Choo choo

    Choo choo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2019
    Messages:
    124
    Likes Received:
    273
    PZB and LZB lights do not work in the cab.
    So you won't see the 70/85 lights flashing when starting a service with pzb, or the red 500hz light when approaching a red signal for example.
    Likewise, you won't be able to tell what and where changes take place when driving under LZB - because the lights just stay off. For the record I tried the cab with safety systems enabled on Koln-Aachen.

    Is this intended?
    It's a bit of an immersion killer, especially for those like me who driving HUDless

    Edit: PZB lights work in scenarios but not in timetable mode, unless I need to do something to turn them on...?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  5. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2021
    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    423
    The wheel slip is annoying. I barely set it to 50% throttle and the wheel slip occurs. Hope they fix it soon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Other players seem to think this is supposed to happen. I’m not so sure.
     
  7. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    899
    The BR 101 has a modern electric wheel slip protection installed. At the moment the BR 101 feels like a prototype for the first mechanical wheel slip protection system.
    The wheels itself shouldn't slip, the locomotive should decrease the power automatically right before the wheels would lose grip.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  8. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    It is called super-slip and it is intentional. The loco does it by purpose when calling a certain amount of tractive effort. It is not massive slip, but just a bit more slip than usual what causes some resonance in the wheels what causes the screaming noise. You will not lose much power with the super-slip working. With the TRAXX locos you basicalle lose all the power when they cant control the macro-slip anymore.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 16
    • Like Like x 7
  9. Coppo

    Coppo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 21, 2017
    Messages:
    486
    Likes Received:
    867
    I have encountered an issue with the raildriver controls. When increasing the throttle too quickly the direction control switches to neutral. it may be that the RD needs to be recalibrated, I've not checked as yet.
     
  10. Glazier

    Glazier Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2020
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    66
    So, is the train supposed to operate within the slip zone during normal operation, or we should limit the power to 45-60%? Also breaking power seems to be not dependent on throttle settings when using AFB, is it OK to let it slip and hope for the protection recovery (It does recover fast)?
     
    Last edited: Apr 22, 2021
  11. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2019
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    1,180
    I have noticed that the AI trains have the “bridges” between the coaches put up, you can cross it but you walk basically on the coupler and on air...
     
  12. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    899
    The AFB braking force is not dependent on the throttle lever on any loco.
     
  13. Glazier

    Glazier Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2020
    Messages:
    67
    Likes Received:
    66
    It does on TGV cruise control, but well, it is AFB, yes :).
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  14. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    899
    That's correct but the TGV isn't a german train and therefore doesn't have the AFB. Of course many locos have similar systems like AFB, but AFB also applies to special rules and operations demanded on the German rail network.
     
  15. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    That is correct. It does not work on the BR101 except the exMet versions (what are not represented with this pack)

    Nope, it is correct as implemented here in the BR101.

    Nope, it is using pneumatic brakes if it needs to.

    Have already said alot about it in the forums here. It does use slip control for sure, but maybe different than you expect.

    Nope, definitely not. They are 'recorded' in a 101. Most older TRAXX using the same old Adtranz voices too. It is a software thing, not loco dependent.
     
    • Like Like x 15
    • Helpful Helpful x 4
  16. diamondderp

    diamondderp Guest

    But I don't think the ICE 3 "Zwangsbremsung" voice is in this loco in real life.
     
  17. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2020
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    752
    They work for me np even in timetable, I just pressed CTRL+NUM_ENTER to turn PZB and LZB on. There is an "indicatiors dimmer" right to the indicators, which can dim those light.
     
  18. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    899
    Ok I have checked some of these and can remove them from the list:
    The door light doesn't seem to work on the BR 101. Since it uses the same door control system as the ICEs and they show a yellow light I assumed it was also the case here.
    I have mistaken the High Brake Force indicator for those usually found on rolling stock with conventional brakes. The relation between braking force and speed is reversed with disk brakes so the indicator works correctly.
    Yes the AFB does decrease the pressure in the brake pipe. I have only watched the cylinder pressure which remains at 0bar on the loco to have an equal force along the train.
     
  19. Ravi

    Ravi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2021
    Messages:
    432
    Likes Received:
    423
    Thanks for the info. I did notice that despite the wheel slip indication it was reducing and increasing speeds and I saw the power cut out at one point as well.
     
  20. ASRGT

    ASRGT Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 19, 2017
    Messages:
    254
    Likes Received:
    613
    They work in all modes if turned on in my experience.
     
  21. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    5,365
    This is a known issue that happens on PS only. DTG have had quite a few reports about it an they are looking into it.
     
  22. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    1,346
    I've just tested the BR101 with 7-cars and these are my thoughts:

    1. Can someone confirm that the Hohe Abbremsung light should be on at all times? I thought it would only light up above 100 km/h (and maybe also only when dynamic brakes are 0 but air brakes are applied.

    1.1: From my understanding the Hohe Abbremsung mechanism increases brake cylinder pressure at high speeds (above 100 km/h or in some cases above 80 km/h) to counteract weakened brakes at high speeds in tread brakes. From this description the feature seems incorrect/non-functioning in the BR101 since if you check the brake cylinder pressure it actually is lower at high speeds rather than the opposite. I'm ambivalent about whether I want DTG to fix this because (read below) the air brake performance is quite realistic atm.

    2. I tested braking the locomotive (+ 7 loaded wagons) at 160 km/h and compared the stopping distance in full service (1025m) with the BrH (bremshundertstel = brake mass / train mass * 100) and it was almost perfect. Stopping distance implied 138 BrH and the real one should be 139, very good! Well within normal variance. (Note: I used the official UIC documents to calculate this, they should be available in my previous posts)

    3. Loaded train weight seems wrong. If you read the printed weights it should be 51 t loaded for all wagons and the locomotive weighs 84t which is 441t for the whole train while the description in TSW2 reads 400t. 400t is about the weight for an empty train.
    What effect does this have on the simulation? Deceleration (with dynamic brakes) and acceleration will be higher than on the real train, about 10% higher so not too bad but should be easily fixed. If DTG decides to fix this, make sure the air brake force is increased the same amount so as not to break the very good realism of the air brakes. Basically: increase brake force and wagon weight by a factor of 10%.

    4. Locomotive adhesion seems quite realistic. I get wheel slip at 80% tractive effort when starting in dry conditions, this corresponds to about 0.29 coefficient of friction which is reasonable for a locomotive without wheel slip creep control, which (afaik) isn't used in BR101.

    5. I concur that the locomotive lacks any wheel slip protection (automatic reduction in tractive effort when wheel slip is detected or automatic sanding), but I'm not familiar with what systems are used on the real locomotive.

    All in all I must say I'm quite pleased with the realism of the DLC, one of the better ones released so far.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  23. jolojonasgames

    jolojonasgames Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2020
    Messages:
    1,995
    Likes Received:
    5,365
    You did your homework :). To me everything felt right, but it's nice to have the numbers to back that up.
     
  24. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,718
    Likes Received:
    6,162
    A7AC9E64-6EAC-44D1-9F4D-FFD7481DBADE.jpeg
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  25. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,323
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    This thread looks like a busted flush! Bugs and errors or user misinterpretation and opinions...you decide.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  26. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    1,346
    Thanks for the answers, Maik!
    I could almost sense your presence in the quality of the BR101, reminiscent of the old ExpertLine locos, did you contribute to this DLC? :)

    I see that you already answered some of my questions, I should’ve read the thread more carefully or perhaps the answers came while I had begun writing already.

    Glad to see some of the things I mentioned are prototypical!
     
  27. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Yep, it doesn’t work for me on PS5.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,718
    Likes Received:
    6,162
    I think the main problem is the lack of a proper manual. As far as I can tell, it seems like the 101 is modelled very accurately, but that also means that there are numerous characteristics, which require more explanation. At the moment, all information about the prototypical features of the 101 in TSW2 comes from Maik Goltz‘s posts on the forums. Not every forums user has the time to track these posts down and I imagine Maik‘s got his own work to do and can‘t hang around the forums all day to answer questions.

    I believe Matt said yesterday that TSG did most of the work on the loco itself apart from the 3D modelling.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  29. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,418
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    So it is a new loco which we pay for but it has faults?
    I will ignore this add-on until it is fixed - maybe in a couple of years it might be
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I don’t think any of the ‘faults’ are that major to withhold buying it. Of course, that’s your decision to make, but it’s such a fun locomotive to drive, you’ll be missing out on it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  31. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Yes. And this is the best passenger TSW loco too at the moment. Choose your destiny.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  32. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,418
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    I'm quite happy driving the TS2021 version as that works as it should
     
  33. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I don't think TS physics works as the should but if You say so :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  34. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,418
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    I don't have any problems with the loco as it runs.
    If you don't like it don't use it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  35. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Where did I write that I don't like her? You are complaining here for several posts.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Apr 23, 2021
  36. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    You’re definitely missing out then. Driving the 101 on HRR is very fun. Lots of trains, lots of adverse signals. I’m enjoying it immensely.
     
  37. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    If you like the TS1 Version then you will like the TSW2 version too. Made by the same person (technically and sound wise). It has the same characteristics and sounds (as far as possible). The TSW2 version is a bit better in terms of phyiscs i would say.
     
    • Like Like x 19
  38. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,418
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    Thanks but I will stick with the TS2021 version.
    I can use the train on different routes without having to create separate scenarios.
     
  39. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    2,124
    It is interesting that many of the “bugs and errors” are not that, and the thread may have been premature. To be fair, the list has been pared down. However, “voice alarms copied” remains despite being disproved by the DLC creator. Also, wheel slip should also be removed since it is prototypical. I suspect the door opening is as well.

    Much of this could have been solved by a manual, but I would feel more comfortable with this thread if it had been titled as “possible errors” or “Questions about the 101.”

    No slight on the OP, but I can imagine it is somewhat disheartening to pour yourself into creating a really amazing and realistic model only to see people then just assume that what seems unusual is a bug or error rather than prototypical.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  40. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    899
    This was just the case as I needed time to cross-check some of these points again. So they will remain on this list until I have some sources that can prove these clarifications. Therefore the voice alarm took until now to be removed because I had to find separate recordings to be certain if the voice is really that similar.
     
  41. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,599
    Likes Received:
    2,648
    Just a suggestion, maybe do those checks before writing the post?

    Having said that I did find Maik’s posts explaining things in this and the other threads very interesting. I wish he would do a video or an article on the Loco as I know very little about them and know a lot more now.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  42. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    899
    Most of the removed entries were listed in this thread because they are special to the BR 101. So rather than checking every entire for the small chance that it could be different with this loco I just wrote them down and checked them after Maik corrected me on these.
    Of course there were many entries on the list that were false but if I hadn't put them there somebody else would have and they had to be corrected anyway. We now have clarity about those false entries, they were removed and we can focus on the remaining entries.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  43. Amax

    Amax Active Member

    Joined:
    Apr 25, 2020
    Messages:
    159
    Likes Received:
    181
    Donc si j'ai bien compris et sur la loco on a le frein sur la position R on doit avoir une perssion de 6,2 bar max et on a 5,2 bar max et du coup c'est faux?
     
  44. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 14, 2021
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    289
    I dunno if it was said already but the plates between the coaches are not lowered
     
    • Like Like x 1
  45. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2019
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    1,180
    but only on AI trains
     
  46. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    899
    Thanks for mentioning that, I've added it to the list.
     
  47. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    That is prototypical for that loco. Written down in the drivers manual (what i cant show you here, but believe me, it is in there).
     
    • Like Like x 2
  48. Jo_Kim

    Jo_Kim Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 28, 2019
    Messages:
    338
    Likes Received:
    899
    There is a manual available online from 2004 but I didn't find anything mentioning that (http://static.scbist.com/scb/uploaded/1_1388496392.pdf). Does "your" manual say anything about why this happens?
     
  49. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 5, 2018
    Messages:
    814
    Likes Received:
    1,062
    And not only in the videogames!
     
    • Like Like x 2
  50. cwf.green

    cwf.green Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 4, 2019
    Messages:
    815
    Likes Received:
    1,346
    I have two questions for you Maik:

    1. Does BR101 feature "blended braking"? I notice that sometimes the brake cylinder will be 0 even though the HL is below 5 bar, which points to the locomotive using electric brakes instead of air brakes.

    2. At low speeds when stopping it seems like the train applies air brake automatically (for example if I stop in 1B which is quite a low setting the air brake cylinder will increase to more than that just as the train stops). I know some trains have a "holding brake" mechanism where the train automatically applies brake when the train stops so as not to inadvertently move in a gradient for example. Does the BR101 have something like this as well?

    3. How do train drivers stop smoothly with such a mechanism? I remember reading a German instruction (I'm paraphrasing because I don't have the document anymore) for drivers to decrease the brakes to around 4.6 bar (1B I think) at low speeds and then stop with the brakes in release to avoid a jerk. With the train automatically applying brakes at low speeds this seems more difficult to achieve.
     

Share This Page