Northeast Corridor Feedback Thread

This works with the F40PH as well, right? The insta-changes from 60 (or higher) to 30 are infuriating.

Also i'm really trying to wrap my brain around the F40's braking. It seems like barely any setting does anything until Full Service, which seems to be quite the g force load. But, if it's required, it's required.

 

I've only ran the route for about 20 mins but so far I love it. The ACS-64 in Boston brakes a lot more realistic compared to the original in TSW1. In TSW1 a minimum application was too damn strong and borderline arcade-like.

For someone like myself who is big on passenger comfort, that seems like such a heavy brake application.

 

Do you have any idea how good it is to have you here answering questions? Real actual answers rather than "we're looking into that and will come back with an answer" that sometimes comes and sometimes doesn't. I wish all route builders could spend the time here. Knowing that an issue is known and addressed and how to get around it via route knowledge is excellent.

Paul

 

You're welcome! I know the community wants transparency. If I'm not overstepping my boundaries, I'll certainly provide as much information as I can.

 

Yep, that one got me too.

Besides I notice in cab signalling forces me to 30 mph for quite a long stretch, while track speed according to HUD is 60 mph.

 

In that case the brake takes so long to release, I seem to end up stopping rather than just braking to 30. I tried coming off the brake at 35-40mph to allow for this and ended up getting a penalty.

Also do these trains really have a conductor at each door to raise and lower the trap doors? In the UK we're lucky to even get a driver on a 8-12 car train yet alone a bunch of conductors as well lol.

Edit- to make it clear i'm talking about the F40

 

They'll choose certain cars to open doors on. Not all doors are manned. So whenever I've been on MBTA, the conductors will let you know which doors they'll be opening at certain stops.

 

Hi. Just a question.

Is anyone having issues with the scenarios and being on time? Like I was doing the Reverse Engineering and I am going round the loop, this meant I was pretty late.

I am not sure if this is just me and I am doing the scenario wrong, or if anyone else is having this issue. Thanks

 

I've driven three services so far, two MBTA and one on the ACS64. The route feels lively, the new passengers are great. I'm very glad they weathered the trains more than the initial screenshots suggested, they look a lot more realistic now. There are some bugs that I've bumped into however. The most severe is a game crash I had once, just after I finished a service, with an unreal error message. I sent a report. Tried the same service but it didn't happen again. Also:
- The Raildriver mapping on the ACS64 has the door buttons reversed (left unlocks right, right unlocks left).
- Upon arriving in providence on the amtrak service my doors refused to unlock entirely for a couple of minutes, and then they suddenly did, allowing me to finish the service.
- On the MBTA run on the service I did the ACCESS kept me on 30-40 mph almost the entire time for no reason, making me very late - and then I turned it off at some point and just followed the track limit and didn't run into the back of another train or anything, had green aspects most of the way. Doesn't seem like that was right.
Also, on the return trip while driving from the cab car, I couldn't get the train passed 50mph or so. This is probably not a bug but something I've done wrong, I dunno. I put the brake lever on the loco to handle off, cut out the key and put the valve back into the bottom setting (can't remember what it's called) but flooring on notch 8 from the cab car still struggled to get me passed 50mph... What didn't I do?

 

Leave the MU2A valve in Lead or Dead

 

Must say Great work on the horns on both locos

 

I'm having a recurring issue where either ACSES or ATC or something is causing the F40PH (cab view) to just completely die on me, even when I cut each out.
With no warning, the brakes will slam on and bring the loco to a halt. Even when I cycle the brakes and reverser, the brake pressure release noise goes off continuously, while the yellow Brake Applied button is on. There seems to be nothing I can do to clear this situation.
I'm wondering whether the issue occurs when you cut out either system once they've been turned on during the trip. So it's not audibly/visibly sounding any warning since the systems are off, but you're penalized all the same and can't reset.
Since there's no manual, I have no idea how to avoid the issue. Thinking I'll have to drive the F40PH without ATC or ACSES until I know the cause.

 

I just tried Foundations and got completely stomped on time, like 5 minutes behind when I hit an endless red light and quit out. So yeah, looks like it's going to be tight.

 

Apologies if these have already been mentioned before, but here some points I’ve seen so far:

• For the alerter in the MBTA F40 cab, why does the brake light/LED on the control stand turn on? Shouldn’t the TMS lights (above the front windows) blink on and off in a checker pattern instead?
• There seems to be a disconnect between the ATC indications on the HUD and the actual signals on the route. Approach Medium aspect should enforce to 45 not 30. Also, for diverging routes at switches, you should get a limited clear, medium clear, or cab speed - not a clear indication. This seems to be a problem when switching to the local track coming from Providence, as there is no approach medium signal at the distant and no medium clear signal at the interlocking. All the signals show clear and you are surprised by an ACSES penalty instead of the proper ATC progressions.

 

Assuming you're talking about Hebronville interlocking, I fixed this the other day. Expect it in the catenary update. The signal had an incorrect route speed. It's correctly set to 45mph now for that movement.

 

Played a few different runs now, and I'm convinced something is wrong with either the dispatcher or ACSES. The in-cab signalling is slowing me down to 30mph around 2.5-3 miles from next station (which has a red light just after, not clearing until passengers have boarded and doors are closed). I'm doing a 20mph crawl for the last mile usually.

This has so far applied to every station stop with a red light beyond the platform - I've had it occur with the Amtrak at Providence northbound and Route 128 + Back Bay southbound. Also seeing it with the MBTA trains.

At the moment finding it impossible to be on time for nearly any service even 'pushing the envelope' re: train performance - understand there are bigger issues going on at the moment with the PS update but it would be good to get this looked at sooner rather than later.

Other than this, enjoying the route a lot and looking forward to Dresden and particularly London - Brighton.

 

I'm curious if you can answer a question regarding signal progression. I was just attempting to run the timetable mode 17:10 Boston to Stoughton. After Ruggles IIRC I got an Approach Limited and and a 45mph enforced which makes sense. Then at the mid block code change point I got enforced 30mph for some reason. Then at the next home signal was the limited clear I was expecting, but ACSES gave me MAS briefly until the crossover when it enforced 45 again. Why the 30mph enforcement before the Limited Clear for no reason?

After that interlocking was another Approach Limited and a 45 enforcement. Mid block I got downgraded to 30 again, then an approach signal. Turns out the sim was displaying a stop just after my station stop at Hyde Park. Two part question with this one. 1) Shouldn't I still be enforced 45 until the Approach signal and then downgraded to 30? 2) Why is the sim displaying a Stop after my next station stop anyway? With the Approach Limited, Approach and then the Restricting at the code change point before the Stop I'm rolling up to Hyde Park several minutes late for no reason. Is this just DTG's signal system being stupid, as I've noticed several other routes display a Stop after your next timetable stop for some reason.

After that I gave up as it was supremely annoying to have no chance at keeping the schedule whatsoever.

 

Joe, that cab drop to 30 isn't intended behavior at all. Should be 45 all the way from an Approach Limited to Limited Clear. Known issue.

With the second example (Approach Limited, Approach, Stop), your cabs should be Approach Medium 45 until you pass the Approach, not before.

The signal after your station stop is a Stop signal because the "Dispatch After Instruction" checkbox for the station stop isn't checked off in the timetable. Sometimes this is desired in order for a train not to request access to so many blocks at once and give other trains an opportunity to proceed through the area. However, it seems to be used too much in the timetable and results in you always being late.

 

Thats the nature of UK railroading, especially back then. Low-speed crossovers, which the drivers had memorized

 

They arent really instachanges. The cab signal comes on telling you to start braking down to 30 so youll be there by the speed reduction, not that the reduction is already in effect. Treat like a Zs3(v), not a Zs3

 

That's what I expected. Guess its another bug as I got the 30 at the mid block code change point before the Approach, stayed at 30 passing the signal and then ultimately the Restricting in the cab later. Don't know if you can bring up the "Dispatch after instruction" issue to the DTG guys but I'm not sure how the expect us to complete any of their timetable services. Otherwise nice work on the route!

On a related note, since there's no manual does anyone know if the cab signal equipment does require a full Suppression application to avoid a penalty? I seem to recall some operators having there's set to certain PSI reduction as opposed to Suppression. Seems overly dramatic on the MBTA equipment, especially with the F40 since releasing the brakes takes so long. If I'm on a cab 30 and drop to Restricting I'm lucky if I'm still doing 7mph after I release the brakes once I hit 20mph.

 

Ah, that explains it then. I thought it would be like on LIRR where you have to break at 50% for the ATC to stop whining. Though it makes sense, the brakes seem pretty weak on the F40PH anyway.

With that said, I bought the route this morning and I have to say, I love it!

While I find the MBTA livery incredibly ugly, I love the F40PH and the cab-car. Havn't driven the ACS-64 yet much, but will do so sometimes.


I think the route is really well done and I love the setting and the variety. It's pretty open at places and the areas look different from each other, so you really feel like you're going somewhere - unlike, for example Clinchfield, where you're just going through dense trees and can't really see anything interesting.

The the single track branch line is great, as it feels lovely between the trees, and I really like the feeling of arriving into Staughton.



So overall, I think it's a great route. The setting and the rolling stock is great. Sounds are good, even though there are some small problems, but nothing major. No big issues for me yet, which is great and it doesn't feel rushed.


There are issues of course, like at one point I passed a level crossing which had it's gates open for some reason. Climing up and down from the cab seems a bit buggy at platforms. There are many scenery cars which have yellow UK number plates, which is pretty annoying. But overall a great route, I'm really happy with it!

 

So far, so good. The biggest issue for me is the in-cab signaling (broken sometimes?) and I am very confused about brakes.
I love the overall design of the route and the sounds are super good in my opinion. Good job \o/

PS As for the brakes - the train brakes very weakly, much worse than other trains in the game, with the same reduction values (PSI).
I like it, but it's extremely different. Is it okay? I'd love to know. BR o7

 

Are speed reductions being handled realistically in the sim? I read through ACSES section in the dovetail manual for NEC New York:

It suggest we should see a time to penalty approaching speed reductions. I'm not seeing this at all - and having to brake in suppression as soon as ACSES shows a reduction in speed, even if it the limit is two miles away seems unrealistic?

 

Thanks! I figured this was likely the case. The whole approach limited vs approach medium thing can certainly make things a bit more complicated. As I understand it, in the past, we only had the legacy approach medium code (120 ppm / 0 ppm) which would bring you down to 45 mph, but the new approach medium code (75 ppm / 75 ppm) could theoretically enforce 30 mph. Though I’m not sure where this new code is used since you could just enforce interlocking speeds with ACSES and part of me thinks that Amtrak stuck with this option while using the 45 mph code for all medium and limited speed turnouts.

 

Ignore that manual. It was very wrong. Time to penalty only appears when approaching an interlocking signal displaying Stop that supports the ACSES Positive Stop feature. The ACSES onboard computer calculates a braking curve to enforce stop a few hundred feet before the signal. The time to penalty is the time before it enforces that stop. Otherwise it's not used.

 

It's my understanding that Approach Medium 30 code is used when passing Medium Clear.

 

Ah great, thanks for the clarification. So we should indeed immediately slow to the MAS shown by ACSES, even if the track speed limit starts (for example) one or two miles ahead of you still?

 

Gotcha, I see no issues with that. As far as I can recall, in recent past, they kept the legacy AM cab signal for all turnouts at the distant and the home signal - before PTC, the engineer was trusted to get the train to 30 before the interlocking and though it. Though I don’t see why they couldn’t have added the ATC enforcement recently on the north side of the corridor.

 

Brandon can probably correct me if I am wrong here, but the way ACSES should work is that you are already slowing down before the ADU changes to a lower speed and it will only change to the lower speed if you exceed the “penalty curve” enforced by ACSES. So if you see that new speed appear in advance of the start point, then yes you need to immediately apply brakes in suppression because you have exceeded the penalty curve. But, from what I can see, the penalty curves for some of the restrictions are set much to early in the game from what they should be so this is why ACSES is asking for the early braking.

 

That makes perfect sense, thanks. Hopefully the curves will be adjusted in due course.

 

#2 After loading the game save, the train lighting does not work.

 

ACSES will enforce 30mph before reaching the interlocking via a braking curve. ATC will hold you to 45 until reaching the interlocking and then drop to 30 after passing the home signal.

 

So there are two curves. Braking curve (the latest you can brake and still meet the upcoming restriction) and an alert curve (braking curve with 8 second offset). If you exceed the alert curve, the speed limit of the new restriction immediately appears on the ADU. If you brake early enough and never violate the alert curve, the ADU will display the speed of the new restriction when you actually reach it.

I agree the braking curves are too aggressive and need to be tuned down a bit.

 

#3 Service: MBTA Stoughton #916 (Stoughton - Boston) // Journey mode.
The game crashes every time approaching Back Bay station.

 

Alert curve! That’s the terminology I was looking for. What you get is a penalty brake if you fail to acknowledge the downgrade from ACSES or exceed the braking curve. Thanks for the correction!

 

Your support on the forum has been very helpful, thank you for the information

 

Yes. Although right now the ACSES braking curve calculations are very agressive. Known issue. I want to try and look into the code behind it once I finish the catenary work.

 

On some stations, I need to close the doors before the signal will clear. I thought that wasn't going to be the case anymore?

 

That might be a requirement to complete the instruction. And the instruction may not be dispatched beyond.

 

Its a diversion so I expect late running is just part of the deal, not only is it 5mph you're following two other trains through there.

 

I've been encountering this issue as well - it seems to be recoverable by putting the reverser in neutral and then hitting the safety system/alerter acknowledge button.

The problem hasn't been entirely consistent for me but when it does occur it tends to be in the same places along the route.

 

From what I remember of Matt on stream they're going to do it more.

 

Is it just me or are the engine sounds in the F40 very quiet when you're in the cab? Especially compared to the Caltrains F40, it's nearly silent even in notch 8 for me.

 

Just a guess, but aren't the MBTA F40s more modern than the CalTrain ones? Maybe they just have quieter engines and better noise insulation.

Or simply inconsistent sound mixing, lol. I mean the sound mixing quality always differs from route to route in TSW.

 

TrainSim-Matt I'm loving the new route so much! The Boston area landmarks and the sounds are spot on. Plus the addition of TrackIR really brings the whole experience to the next level. So much fun already and I haven't even tried Amtrak yet.
I even got a friend of mine into the game and he's starting to get hooked.

A friendly suggestion from a Boston local:
I hope the station platform signs on the southern parts of the route can be fixed in the future update. They're supposed to be purple and white like the ones you have in the Boston area stations (Back Bay, Ruggles). It's an iconic part of the MBTA system. Line color over white with the station name in all caps.
I've been riding the T my whole life so it really stands out.

 

New interior cab sounds were added to the MBTA version. As to why they're so different from Caltrain and even the exterior sounds, I'm guessing the F40PH-3C has an isolated cab and the older -2[C/CAT]s don't. At least from all the various cab videos I've watched on youtube, this theory fits and is more realistic - cab isolation is quite powerful in quieting and changing the sounds.

 

How to use (if it is possible to use it) the atc and the acses in the CTC-3 (cab car)?
Greetings.

 

If you exit through the door from the cab portion to the passenger section of the car, there's a panel to your left which you can open that contains the ATC and ACSES circuit breakers.

 

Open the window or door if you want it louder. These units are much newer and are likely to have better insulated cabs.

Paul