Dresden - The Definitive Feedback Thread.

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by chieflongshin, Aug 31, 2021.

  1. Task

    Task Well-Known Member

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    First of all: I really like what I saw in the stream. The new night lighting is very awesome and the route looks pretty good and inetresting overall.

    I have one big gripe with what was shown yesterday. Hamburg - Lübeck already had issues with incomplete PIS data on release and it was only fixed a few weeks later. I really hope those issues can be adressed before release this time.
    Now we have similar problems for DRA again:
    • Station Numbers are missing on the platform destination boards.
    • Off-Map stations (virtual destinations) are missing again. This way the RE 50 doesn't go to Leipzig like in reality but only to Riesa or the S2 only drives from DD-Neustadt to DD Hbf (just two examples). Also the next intermediate stations after the last station on the map are also missing. The ICs likely only have the on map stations and therefore go from Riesa - Dresden and not Köln to Dresden. The IC coaches show all intermediate stations. Here the off map destinations will really be missed.
    • The destination boards at Coswig weren't working at all.

    Two smaller issues I saw in the preview:
    • The 185.5 coming in the direction of Riesa on the IC run didn't have a panto raised.
    • There was a significant section without Overhead Wires on the bypass line on the IC run. Maybe the first issue is connected to that (the 185.5 lowers it's panto and doesn't raise it again)?
     
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  2. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah all these features, upgrades and improvements being separated into standalone items is getting silly, I thought the idea of TSW was to modernise TSXX, which is now full of varying levels of quality when it comes to content because none of it is modular, and here we are 3 years into TSW with the same thing happening, if the trains were built to be modular and could have improvements made retroactively surely that would be better for everyone.

    As it stands we will now have a good 146.2 and a bad one, with the bad one being the one that’s on most of the German routes, no doubt DTG will make no effort to replace that 146.2 for those that own the improved version, however back when the ECW 66 got improved we were allowed to pick between the GWE version and the ECW version via the livery selection, can that not be made available here?

    Also the 185.5 had massive improvements, and that version is the one that will be used in previous content and with the new DLC, so why has the 146.2 been separated into 2 different models?
     
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  3. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I would not expect many of the night lighting changes to make their way into existing routes - purely because I think much of the improvement is simply down to them (or someone) placing more light sources down in the route, which would involve Adam's team making significant scenery changes, if I understand it right.

    Not saying it's impossible, but I think it's unlikely for some routes.
     
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  4. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    this is my concern. This whole “think of each route as a separate game is piffle” the quality shouldn’t rollercoast along. If the new lighting works employ or sub contract someone to do it, if the branch lines need more people, employ to do it.
    I’d like to live in the delusion that improved quality creates more credibility and brings more people to the party to pay for the additional resource
     
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  5. kosti.nuuja

    kosti.nuuja Well-Known Member

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    Screenshot (113).png
    I noticed, that the pantograph on the AI 185.5 is lowered.
     
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  6. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Well, a bit later the played 101 ran under no catenary. Maybe we've missed Germans seriously going in with battery-powered locos :D
     
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  7. jayzhead

    jayzhead Active Member

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    Very excited for this. This route seems to be just up my alley, and FINALLY we get proper night lighting. It's too bad, knowing DTG, that it will probably take literally years to get it ported to older routes, if at all. I'd say it is even more likely they'll never do it.

    (Rant ahead:)) It is quite a stupid model of operation that DTG had selected, in which each route is essentially it's own sandbox with it's own features. On most other sims features are not tied to specific DLC, and when the sim gets updated everything gets the new stuff. Yes, sometimes bugs appear as a consequence of incompatibility for older content, but it just usually takes some quick fixes to bring everything up to date. For some reason DTG selected this "sandboxed" approach, which seems to just makes it harder on them, as each new feature introduced then needs to have endless discussions about whether or not it even can be back ported and excuses about why it'd be difficult/impossible on route X; and then take months to rework the old content one by one. That is very inefficient. I get that a feature like night lighting, which requires editing 3D models of buildings and placing tons of new light sources on the routes does require rework, and I wouldn't have expected it to be available for all older routes right away. But they are forced to work in the same manner with everything, even trivial stuff, like updating a loco (seriously, how stupid is it that we have good and bad versions of the same locos on different routes in the the same installation :|), or having proper track rendering, and those damn empty platforms everywhere when the new routes are nice and populated, and lack of raildriver support for older trains... Or even more basic and simple stuff, like older routes' service mode dumping you into the train after passenger loading has completed already and different routes behaving differently when you finish a service. It makes for a very inconsistent experience, and hurts replayability for the routes we purchase, because once you get used to a feature being in the game (like decent numbers of passengers, for example) and then suddenly it's not there in 90% of your stuff, or driving a depreciated version of a train that now has a much better version, you just don't play the older routes anymore, and that is a shame. It's really hard to get excited about new features when you know they are only going to be available in one or two routes from your collection. (-End Rant :))

    The route itself looks nice, and I love the fact that there is a separate line for fast services. Once again I'd throw in my support for completing the abandoned branch lines as a paid extension, I'd happily get it if it's not too expensive. I love the idea of a network of lines being simulated in one route.
     
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  8. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    F9599F63-B38D-468A-A154-C995E5C5FBC8.jpeg

    Elephant in the room - is the lighting the appeasement fo4 the branches being dropped, would we have got it if the branches stayed. Just putting it out there. I’m rather looking forward to tomorrow stream. I just hope it look good during day too
     
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  9. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I hardly think so. After all, the branches would have been available day and night, improved lighting or not. We'll never know what the night lighting would have been like without the "improvement", but is it really any better than Boston? German fans will not be so easily assuaged. Plus there is now talk of a loco possibly missing for a large segment of console players.
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2021
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  10. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    I would like to point out that I have also enjoyed what I've seen on the 1st preview stream.

    The 146 sounds have clearly been improved which makes it drive-able. The electric motors are still sounding not natural, sort of how the Taurus sounds like. But still, it is a step in a good direction and it is nice to see / hear it.

    Personally I think that it is a bit sad we don't get a starting station for the S1 line from Meissen - Triebischtal. It would be more or less 10 kms of extra track. Is it really that difficult to make the extra stations / stops on that part of the route? Clearly you'd need more time to work on that, but it would be great to have that part of the route.

    Freight traffic seems to be rather lacking but the passenger train services seem to be quite nice as well.

    I am looking forward to it non the less!
     
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  11. mattwild55

    mattwild55 Well-Known Member

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    My no-doubt controversial opinion is that I'd much rather have had the night lighting than the branches if there was a trade-off to be made (which I'm not sure there was anyway - fairly sure route builders won't have been the same people as those who implemented the special lighting).

    I tried a nighttime ICE service on HMA just now and you can't see a damn thing even with the lights on full blast. Realistic and atmospheric night lighting (and headlights) are a game-changer for me (especially as it can be carried onto future routes, even if it isn't fully implemented in London-Brighton).

    On top of all this, the service variety looks really good from the outset and the autumn trees look lovely.

    Final thing - I'm pretty sure I noticed a big 'all-platforms overview' (I don't know the right term) PIS board right at the start of the intro in Dresden Hbf - this is one of the things I've been quietly hoping would be implemented at big termini for a while now. Hoping it's functional in service mode (obviously it wasn't in the intro / scenarios).
     
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  12. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Well we’re nearly there for stream 2. Let’s hope there are some good questions asked, the steams ok and and the route looks as good during day
     
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  13. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Thoughts so far

    Really like the route so far and looking forward to the 9th. Some good questions asked tonight. I do hope there is a swift uplift in freight traffic

    suggestion- would be good to see more of the freight , car, log wagons etc transfer onto this route if applicable
     
  14. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    I am a bit disappointed really. There is a long list of items to be fixed post-launch, with the launch already delayed and some of the items are pretty basic. The activity is low, the catenary is bugged, the PIS is bugged, there are texture issues, AI trains driving with pantographs lowered and cars driving on the wrong side of the road. And a few of these are not fixed yet but people are looking into it. Then in the next breath things aren't launched until they are ready...

    How can they even test whether the route functions perfectly with all the layers on if there are services missing completely? Once they add the rest of the services in it may be a different story, they may not even be able to add them all back in if it hurts the older console performance.

    Even the lighting, it looks far too orange, the talent 2 looked quite odd in the morning run, everything looked like a large yellow light was shining on it. The darkness is good, and in pitch darkness the lighting looks better, but I suspect the transitions i.e. dusk and dawn need a bit of tweaking so the transition between sunlight and the station lighting is a bit smoother.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
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  15. Sprinter

    Sprinter Well-Known Member

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    Just watched the stream.

    Matt is showing the new features you can use on freight trains and Dosto with the brakes etc. Why spend time on such things? And if I havent watched the stream i was never aware of such a feature because there is no manual or notification about it.

    Sam mentioned Allot of players ask for in-train announcements... so why dont make those instead of making all kind of other stuff New journeymode chapters.. change UI layout.

    And now we have big sound issues on Xbox and Texture issues as well. They are aware but come on fix first whats really important and implement what players really ask for.

    I play TSW since the GWE founders edition on Xbox. Bought almost all routes and DLC.. been patient but i think im getting to a point of frustration now...

    Edit: I know this is the PC Forum Section
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2021
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  16. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    As far as in train announcements, it was stated in earlier streams that these actually fall under copyright laws and to use them they would have to get the correct permissions, even if they used their staff to make them. The correct brakes, is a game play thing and there are those of us who enjoy the realism of being able to correctly set up the train you are running.
     
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  17. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    welcome welcome.

    I must admit, I love a switch and I love a feature but my thoughts weren’t follows.


    How do I use it properly?
    Could they have basic, intermediate and advanced tutorials or scenarios introducing this stuff in.

    Without this it’s like a button on a car you pay for but never use. Show me, teach me, intrigue me and I’ll press it.


    The end of that stream was a little bit of a clusterduck with pzb, questions galore and the cars but hopefully the feedback helps and they know people still appreciate their work. I personally would kind of feel bad if they came off the stream dejected after huge amounts of work and giving up their evenings (paid or not) to show us.

    As ever I’m appreciative of questions and access to them to get answers. We’re all lucky in that sense.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
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  18. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    I would consider myself as one of the guys asking for different brake modes and I am happy they have implemented something like this!

    Don’t mind stuff like cars driving on the wrong side of the road. Not even so bothered with the lack of a BR155, however, what was a bit of a let down was the emptiness of the Route. Definitely waiting for an answer on this!
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2021
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  19. Sprinter

    Sprinter Well-Known Member

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    Agree! Show us, teach us, intrigue us.
     
  20. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, to be suggested it’s only running at 25% freight capacity I’m sat thinking “more please”. I’d love to drive past some teeming yards rather than the normal 3 rows of wagons
     
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  21. Sprinter

    Sprinter Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, if you like this kind of stuff, i respect it completely. Im more the guy that likes in-train announcements i guess..
     
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  22. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    Fair enough:) I sure wouldn’t mind them either…
     
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  23. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    Putting aside the choice of either navigating copyright or re-recording announcements, that would be a whole new system. While we have the triggers in place it's the kind of task that could have a lot of time needed to make it happen. Journey mode is gameplay, not code - we already have everything in place. UI is front end, not code. The takeaway is that not all tasks are equal in terms of who is needed to work on them.
     
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  24. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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  25. Sprinter

    Sprinter Well-Known Member

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    Thankyou for the explaination. Correct brakes is realism. But in-train announcements is also realism;)
     
  26. Sharon E

    Sharon E Well-Known Member

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    I also hope for more instructions on various items with this route. I have been looking at Wikipedia on German signals and it is a little confusing compared to other countries that I have explored signals. As Matt brought up tonight, there are 3 different systems in use currently in Germany and though they are similar there are differences which increase the learning curve. I think I will take the plunge with this route to start driving the German ones. I have avoided them due to PZB and LZB and trying to run a train with both up. Here we only have PZB so can get used to it. In the forums there are posts (see above) about the weights of trains and how this results in which setting you need for the brakes and these would be a good starting point.
     
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  27. Sprinter

    Sprinter Well-Known Member

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    Thankyou Sam for the answer. Its more complicated as i thought it would be. Im not here to bash you guys. But the Sound and Texture issues on Xbox is really frustrating.
     
  28. KoeleKoen

    KoeleKoen Well-Known Member

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    It's not a "bad" route but it does feel like yet another run of the mill german route, not really a "rush hour vibe" I know it's been said 1000 times before but it is what it is, the branches would have given it a rush hour feel, it doesn't feel more busy than other german routes if you have all the layers, just adding more passengers doesn't cut it for me personally, but like i said, on its own, not a bad route.
     
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  29. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Sharon E pzb and Sifa totally change the game. You find it’s a steep learning curve but by god does it make it better.

    When I watched matts video i recall him saying along lines of

    green is green
    Green green is green
    I think in some instances amber and green is green
    Red is stop quick :D

    I’ve found the trick is to really be aware of slowing down In time, the orange warning triangles. Most of the time then pzb leaves you alone.

    Only other thing to get head round then is the pzb speed limits.

    Learning pzb has actually made me enjoy Germany rather than Uk so far ( BML pending)
     
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  30. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It was acknowledged in the stream that it’s not living up to the Rush Hour brief due to low number of services. I don’t know how that could happen. How has that only just been noticed? I just don’t get it. HRR is more rush hour than this. I’m not too bothered by it, it’s a fairly standard looking route with some new features for the trains and on the track, and we know the scope was reduced with the branches being cut, but it’s a little odd to hear Matt say in the stream that the route isn’t how it should be and he’s going to look into adding more services. Wouldn’t that have been noticed earlier, during planning, or were all the rush hour features based entirely on the cut branches around Dresden being present, like how Boston Sprinter is only really rush hour around Boston?
     
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  31. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    The question I have is will the learnings identified tonight be high priority for Brighton or will that be a post release patch also
     
  32. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe the lack of branches changes AI traffic. Those AI trains still enter or leave the mainline via their corresponding branch portal.
     
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  33. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    One thing I've noticed in the second stream is the possible misbehaviour of the PZB.

    Matt got hit by two 500 Hz. Once doing 30 and once 34 km/h. Shouldn't PZB-M the train was set it, allow for entering at 45?

    I don't have the table in my head, but for M mode shouldn't it be 45 and drop to 25 in 153 meters?
     
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  34. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Except somehow we've got probably about 100-200 services missing from the release version.
     
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  35. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Because it adds to immersion and realism for certain players who value being able to adjust the driving/braking experience.
    First, I doubt it's stuff that nobody asked for. Different things matter to people. Maybe it doesn't make some people happy but it makes other people happy.

    Second, DTG (like other development companies) is innovating (and learning by doing). They should be able to take steps to improve the game, even if some people might disagree with the choices DTG makes.

    We'll never get anyone to agree on what's more important, but I believe improvements are being made, in spite of any constraints that DTG has in releasing a route.
     
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  36. dubsox

    dubsox Member

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    Can somebody please tell me if I'm being unreasonable here, this route seems to be getting a lot of hype and I just can't figure out why. Is it purely because of the night lighting? Because to me this looks nothing like what we were promised for the rush hour routes and I honestly would get a refund on the season ticket if I could. Dresden looks completely empty with barely ANY traffic. I'm so desperate for a busy German route with lots of varied rolling stock like in real life so I had hopes for this, but Dresden and it's urban stations were completely devoid of other services and doesn't come anywhere close to the "tight and chaotic" timetables that were advertised before releae of "Rush Hour". Even the passanger "variation" was dissapointing and that's not even something I really care about.
     
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  37. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Yes, please!

    I'd love to see much more taught in-game, so we could learn by doing.
     
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  38. FeralKitty

    FeralKitty Well-Known Member

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    Are in-train announcements realism for the driver? Can they even hear them in most locos?
     
  39. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Well, after the second stream I'm straying towards not buying Dresden at this time.

    While I did think this stream showed off the route much better than Tuesday, I think it does look very good, that's about it... for now. I'm hugely disappointed that the hype of rush hour did not really exist from what I've seen on both streams, there were a few trains, but a lot less than I thought there would be. As others have said, traffic-wise it looks the same as existing German routes, nothing to really differentiate. If the route was teeming with traffic, I'd of bought it in an instant. I'm at least happy they acknowledged the lack of traffic regarding a rush hour feel and may look to update the timetable - I may then decide to get the route if this is achieved.

    This does now have me anxious of whether BML will live up to its potential, especially when this route runs practically Rush Hour nearly most of the day. Plus with mostly just the 377 forming the bulk of the services, here's hoping AI traffic will be extremely busy, especially at the London end of the route - there should be no excuse for a lack of traffic here!
     
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  40. DTG Lukas

    DTG Lukas Developer Staff Member

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    If you rewatch you will notice that Matt seemed to have always „released“ (Frei-Taste) before the 500hz.
    That is was caused the instant Emergency brake, not the actually speed curve


    So im pretty sure this was actually correct
     
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  41. Sprinter

    Sprinter Well-Known Member

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    I agree and respect everybody' s preferences for the game. I guess im really in the wrong section of the forum atm, as im on Xbox where the textures and sounds are messed up. And its giving us a headache. Bye:)
     
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  42. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    Your values are correct. Only way this could happen is if he released himself from the 1000Hz restriction ahead of the the 500Hz.
     
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  43. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah in most preview streams you get the impression that not a whole bunch is known regarding developmental decisions and oversights, which is alarming considering the senior producer is the one on the stream.

    In any case I hope that the traffic (or lack thereof) is not indicative of the BML DLC.
     
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  44. Sprinter

    Sprinter Well-Known Member

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    Well .... Can a driver see the destination board outside of the loco/train while driving? No... he or she cant... but still its a big thing in TSW;) and adds to realism right..?
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2021
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  45. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Well, that's a detail I've missed. I wasn't looking for anything like that because (especially in the first case) why would you release right before a red light? :D
     
  46. DTG Lukas

    DTG Lukas Developer Staff Member

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    I have a feeling that the 1 button for all on Console might have been a bad idea :) But I’m not sure if that really is the problem
     
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  47. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Remember all this was to deliver a quality product... that aged well, didn't it?
     
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  48. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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    I could imagine that he looked at the HUD, which shows green if the signal shows shunting white. For PZB, however, it’s a red signal. It’s tricky…
     
  49. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    If you watch any real-life Class 377 cab ride videos, you can easily hear the in-train announcements being picked up in the background. So at least this would be mostly realistic for say the upcoming BML route if it were ever added in.
     
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  50. thundergaming11

    thundergaming11 Well-Known Member

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    No one mentioning the ticket machine Matt used? ;) really liked that small touch. I havent been able to watch the whole stream but I wonder if we'll see more of these small things, like touching in with smart/card readers, using gates or pressing information systems. I know there's a lot people are focusing on but I'd like to point out the smaller things. I am a bit underwhelmed so far with this route though (as others have mentioned above) and hope the relevant improvements and fixes will come.
     
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