Hey all! There's been quite some Dutch suggestions on this forum, as I'm quite happy with as I'm joyfully waiting the day the Netherlands will finally officially get its first route and trains in a train sim game that's not made by independent mod makers. What I thought I'd do here was to take a bit of time to explain Dutch safety systems to all who are interested in knowing about it as they're actually very straight forward and intuitive. This because I have noticed on more than one occasion reading a comment of someone being afraid of having to learn a new set of safety systems if DTG were to add a new country. Luckily, DTG already made the groundwork for a lot of our safety system's base assets without even realizing it! First of all, there's our dead man's switch, which works exactly like SIFA, and should be no trouble at all. Only difference being that our dead man's switch is activated if the reverser is set in forward(or reverse), regardless of speed, so including if the train is stationary, unlike SIFA on German trains which seems to switch off as soon as the train reaches 0km/h. And then there's ATB. 1. In-cab signalling. First of all I'd like to start with ATB's in-cab signalling. Something most of you will likely already have seen maybe without even realizing it! This is ATB as present in SKA's DB BR406. Generally speaking, for the purpose of a train simulator game, the only actually important part for driving these trains properly is very upper row of yellow lights, with the green one on the right. As well as the blue one under the 8 saying BD, which only means it's "out-of-service" (Buiten Dienst). In some trains, like the NS VIRM, this can also be as a needle on the speed-o-meter where it looks just like LZB, or on the NS ICM, the dots are directly over the speed-o-meter bar. As you can see these are labeled: Blank - 6 - 8 - 13 - 14 - blank (green) The 14 in this case is exclusive to trains fitted with ATBM+ which raises the top speed from 140km/h to 160km/h. The way this works is very simple. The in-cab signal that's on signifies a speed limiter to which if you're driving more than 3km/h over it an audible alarm will go off, prompting you to either brake back into ATB's signalled speed, or have the train go into emergency brake. On most trains there's only 5 options for ATB limiters, but that doesn't mean that if ATB says 13, you're automatically allowed to go 130km/h. So if your speed limit is 100km/h, assuming clear aspect signals, ATB should signal "13", putting the limiter to that speed. Upon an upcoming speed reduction, E.G. going from 140km/h down to 80km/h, an single audible ping will be heard signalling that ATB has changed to "8". After that you are immediately required to brake to ATB's new reduction. If you fail to do this in time a continuous bell will be heard that goes off until you have either reached your targeted reduction, or an emergency brake has been initiated. When, after braking, you have reached ATB's targeted reduction, three audible short bells will be heard to signal this. 2. Light Signalling. Dutch light signals are very straight forward. They look similar to British light signals in that they look like upside down traffic lights. I will go over some of the basic signal aspects here. Pass at maximum locally permitted speed. Pass at a speed no faster than the speed as indicated by the number below. Pass at a speed not exceeding 40km/h. Reduce speed to the speed indicated by the number below. In case the next sign signals a further reduction, braking is not to be interrupted. If the number is flashing, the distance to the next signal is too short to brake to the indicated speed. You're allowed to pass the next signal at a higher speed, but must continue braking until that speech has been reached. Reduce speed to a maximum of 40km/h so as to be able to stop for an upcoming red aspect signal. Pass at a speed no higher than 40km/h or less in order to be able to stop at any point after passing this signal. Clear tracks are not guaranteed after this signal. Do not pass this signal. (unless having specific instructions to do so) Additionally, there's dwarf signals like the one below mostly around stations and yards, but these have the same meanings. This concludes all main Dutch light signalling. There's more, but these are the main ones to keep in mind. That's already a lot clearer than German signalling I believe, as evidenced by professor Matt's powerpoint slide on HL signalling yesterday. 3. Trackside signalling Dutch trackside signalling is in fact very similar to German trackside signalling and I will go over the basic ones here. Reduce speed as indicated. Speed must have been reached before the next nr.314 sign. Indicates permitted speed after passing this sign. Signals an increase in speed to the speed indicated on this sign. However, these are going to be phased out. Signals you're approaching a train station at your approximate braking curve. (I specifically really like this sign and its placement as you're virtually never going to have to guess where the station is and when you should start braking for it) Present on stations. Indicates the place every train is supposed to stop at, depending on the amount of coaches on the train. If the amount of coaches you're carrying exceeds the highest number, at the end of the station there's usually a blank blue version which should be stopped at instead. Same as the sign above. Except if a train comes in halfway through a platform through a switch, it should use the blue number in white below to indicate where to stop. Indicates a train is permitted to depart the station. Unlike light signals, there's plenty more trackside signals to cover, but this is meant to cover the basics. For the purpose of driving in a simulated game, these will generally be all signals you need to know! Also, some signals, like the ones for pantrograph up/down, are shared with Germany. Videos: Here's a few video's from a YT channel from a Dutch train driver where you can see these systems in action. Conclusion: Generally, Dutch signalling is very intuitive, and as I hope you can all see, nothing at all to be afraid of. Generally, Dutch signalling will never leave you guessing as to what should be done if you're paying attention. Unlike most routes present currently, even German routes have some parts of a route where you're just supposed to know the speed and it's not indicated. This should make Dutch routes incredibly welcoming to new players. Anyway, I hope this gives all of you a clearer understanding of Dutch signalling, and maybe sparks some excitement to maybe finally see the Netherlands represented in Train Sim World 2! If there's still any questions, feel free to ask them! I or someone else might know the answer. (or are able to translate the answer from a sources such as manual's )
I would like to add a bit to this sign. It signals track section speed, and the square white signs (preceeded by the yellow upside down triangles) form exceptions to this speed. Square signs can signal a speed increase aswell. This actually makes the signs a bit redundant, as replacing them with square signs like in Germany would have no practical difference, this is why they're gradually being phased out. I would also like to refer those who want to know more about the rarer signs and signals to this dutch page, which has a list of all signals and signs, and their meaning.
Also, just to be pedantic, this is a light signal . All in a a good explaination of the basics of the Dutch signalling and safety systems, hopefully it will help get more people interested in Dutch routes!
True. However, if a Dutch route is made, players are still going to encounter these quite often, so I still feel like they should know it, and I myself actually find them quite useful still as it keeps "increase", "decrease" and "target" speeds separate. So if it were up to me, all speed increases would be green, and white would be almost exclusively used to signal the point at which a speed reduction has to have been reached. But that's just me
Very cool guide! Maybe also add some information about ATB-NG. This playlist also contains some explained signs/signals. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLcI-KEuMrLcM5JpA22IDEdN-Vj5B75o8C
Also, I would really like if this is implemented well. It sounds trivial at first perhaps, but they're the indicators that the conductor is allowed to close the doors. In the Netherlands, it's important that the signal is green first, and the V-signal is on before the conductor closes the doors, even if people have already boarded and departure time has passed. Making sure the signals are no longer tied to your "lock door" completion is a small detail, but integral to making Dutch routes feel correct. Especially cause Dutch train doors are manually closed at the doors, where you're gonna have to see the signal to close, rather than just having a cab-button to do it.
In the future perhaps For now I'm constrained to a maximum amount of images, text, time and concentration. But it's definitely important for some routes. Though it should be said that the most likely Dutch lines to be made still have the older ATB systems. (slightly outdated pic, but still)
This is much easier than PZB if there's an International route towards Germany being Utrecht Arnhem Oberhausen Duisburg suited for SKA DB BR406 or Heneglo-Bad Bentheim Osnabrück. Players that have used PZB will expect ATB EG NG to require a Acknowledge Command Locomotive desk Waschsm for German & Austrian locomotives to or from Netherlands. If made this will be the first European route to have pulse code signaling because it's only seen on LIRR Ronkonkoma & Port Jefferson Branches Penn Station to Hicksville and hempstead Branch Atlantic Terminal or Hempstead Penn Station. I'm guessing Union switch and Signal helped install the ATB after 1962 Harmlen accident.
So, seeing as how we're getting a Dutch route with Zwolle - Groningen. This thread may be of use to some people. Also, in hindsight, this thread could've probably been better served in the General Discussion topic. In my memories, I thought I'd put it there, but alright. Anyways, with Zwolle - Groningen, and the included NS ICM and NS SNG in mind, here's a bit of additional info Below is the speedometer as seen in the ICM: The yellow and green lights on top show which maximum speeds ATB currently enforced. Though, remember. Just because ATB enforces 130km/h, that doesn't mean that the speed limit is also automatically 130km/h. NS SNG has them in the display, with a traditional digital dial speedometer. The ATB enforced speed limits are visible below that.
but there will be a trackside post saying the limit is 100, right ? anyway, great guide, already I would feel kinda confident trying a route in-game btw, I assume there is a button in trains to acknowledge some limits?
Yes, so, if the speed drops to 100km/h, it would look mostly similar to what it looks like on German routes. First, you'll encounter the yellow downward triangle with 10 (speeds are x10) announcing the speed limit followed by a square with the same number at the point where the speed reduction would have to be accomplished. As far as in-cab signalling goes. You don't actually acknowledge anything with a button, but rather with your actions. The ATB would go into the appropriate mode at about the announcement sign, which in this example would mean 13. To announce this change in ATB mode there will be a single bell chime. If this is followed by a brake demand, a continuous alarm will be heard. You have 3 seconds to respond to this alarm by applying the brakes, or the emergency brakes will be applied. Only after reaching the newly designed ATB speed will 3 bell chimes be heard, indicating that you're allowed to release the brakes again. In the given example, this would mean you can "safely" release the brakes again after reaching 130(+3)km. You'll still have to brake to 100 of course, but at least on the ATB EG, the most common and older system as well as the one on the upcoming route (reference, look at the map a few posts back), 100 is not an actual setting.
btw great thread, hopefully with the actual first Dutch route, we will be given nice manual + tutorial in the game ... cant wait to learn yet another signalling/safety stuff
I guess Santa Felt that we were not good enough to get a proper manual. And this Thread will get a revival.
one of other threads gives some hints, there is a solid article on ATB and we even got a tutorial, tho I must say that the red signal part wasnt very good - it only tells you how to get out of penalty brake application, but doesnt really explain how to approach a red signal to get as close as possible without getting one (I got an advice on that in the route's feedback thread heh): but other than that the system is simple enough... also, as soon as I see downward triangle, I apply some brakes and once I see the number I sometimes brake harder... also, once I see yellow, I got my hands on brake buttons just in case to brake for 80 or 60 kph... the big S signs for stations help a ton if I know I got stop ahead I kinda hope tho that in future Dutch content we get the improved version with 160 kph (not sure if the vv version can deal with more speed?) and maybe even more speed changes, cos I kinda like the system (maybe even a power change?)
The 160 kph version of ATB is ATBM+, which is installed only on the line between Hoofddorp and The Hague (Mariahoeve). The only two train types that can use the ATBM+ transponders are the former Thalys units (now EuroStar Red) and ICE 3M. EuroStar Red only runs there in case the HSL is out of order, and and ICE 3M only runs there when off for maintenance in the Leidschendam depot. So not much of a service pattern for TSW, should that route ever make it to TSW, but doable. We'd have a better chance of seeing one of the ETCS equipped Dutch routes, on which SNG (and SLT, and a few other train types) can reach 160 kph in service, and 200 kph for ICNG (on two routes at least).
True, but I did feel a sparkle of hope when I noticed that when you switch on ATB in the SNG (in TSW), the game notifies you that both ATB and ETCS are activated. I've not tried the SNG on SBB S-Bahn Luzern yet, but perhaps I should... maybe it secretly supports ETCS
I still remember my disappointment at ETCS on that route... I was getting penalty brake applications almost every run because the braking curve dropped unrealistically fast
1. In-cab signalling Ohhh... that is a nice surprise! So the ICE 3 it has ATB system already implemented. Great. But I wonder...how do you change the country and voltage, as it is needed for the Vectron? Or in the case of the ICE 3 is made it automatically?
No, unfortunately not. IRL it does, though the last ICE 3 for Dutch use has just retired unfortunately. But the in-game variant doesn't have it. This was written before Pfälzische Ludwigsbahn came out, but the ATB panel on the train is only for aesthetical purposes, and I do remember it said during the Q&A that there's no plans for updating the ICE to include ATB capabilities. That said though, it is my understanding (though I can't verify as I don't have it) that the Pfälzische Ludwigsbahn variant of the ICE3 does have different voltage systems simulated, and so can still be used for Free Roam on Zwolle - Groningen, but just without ATB. However, as I don't own it, I wouldn't know how to do it, but I'd imagine it's through the panel on the left.
