Train Sim World 2 - Tharandter Rampe: Dresden – Chemnitz First Look!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Dec 17, 2021.

  1. tibomatthijs

    tibomatthijs Well-Known Member

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    Maybe once the 232 is finished they can sub to loco for freight, indeed
     
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  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    There's loads of trackside scenery that fills out the landscape but adds little to the experience bar to fill it out. I imagine that's why stations often have 5 PIS screens per platform when IRL they have 1
     
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  3. dosto762

    dosto762 Well-Known Member

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    That would be nice
     
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  4. praxidike.meng

    praxidike.meng Well-Known Member

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    Past experience tells us that scenery shown in previews is what is going to be in the final build. I have been vocal about the awfully inaccurate catenary in the past, but with the exception of Meißen branch (which is fantastic), it doesn't seem to be a bother to the devs. It would also seem that the Meißen branch was built by an outside developer, who also used their own assets, hence we got a more accurate catenary on that part.
     
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2021
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  5. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    1. Will this have Dresden lighting?
    2. Why are we getting another route like Brighton that doesn’t connect? Are you stacking the beside each other so they can in a summer release update?
    3. Will the non tilting trains have different speed limits to the tilting on this route with longer service duration?
     
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  6. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    All passenger trains start/end at Dresden Hbf so nothing continuous from Riesa to Chemnitz Hbf. Freight wise, the trains come from Dresden-Friedrichstadt which isn't on DRA. So again not much need for joining. Something more continuous like if Riesa to Leipzig, for example, would make more sense being connected.
     
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  7. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Joethefish thank you, that’s useful to know. :cool:
     
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  8. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    Oh and because I have a habit of mentioning places that aren't on the route as if they are, I should probably clarify that Dresden-Friedrichstadt isn't on Dresden-Chemnitz it's just where freight trains come from, off world. Sorry!
     
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  9. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I asume the a.i traffic of dresden, going to riesa will be included in the rampe.

    Does anybody know we get the br612 as AI train for riesa dresden?
     
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  10. Coastway trainspotter

    Coastway trainspotter Well-Known Member

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    I assume the 612 will be AI , maybe even a layer to reisa
     
  11. DXR8002

    DXR8002 Well-Known Member

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    Looks exactly the same as any other German route. So over this over priced money gouging buggy mess.
     
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  12. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    That would put DRA and DCZ in the same time period. The DRA timetable being 2021 and the DCZ timetable being 2012 with changes to Dresden Hbf and traffic patterns.

    One such change is that the 612 does not run anymore. So it would be unrealistic for DRA to have that, RB30 and RE3 traffic. As RB30 and RE3 were push-pull BR 143s, they are now BR 1440s in 2021.

    Even the S-bahn changed, with S1 running push-pull BR 182s back in 2012 instead of the 146s they run now in 2021.

    There were also loco swaps for EuroCity trains at Dresden back then for trains entering/leaving Germany. Or at least, more common.
     
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  13. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    Wow, so you made changes to Dresden Hbf to represent the different time period of DCZ? That’s amazing! Can you talk more about the things you changed?
     
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  14. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

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    In my opinion, this route is actually quite unique. For the first time in two years or so, it isn’t a relatively flat German mainline from one big city to the other. It’s actually a route with interesting curves and steep grades, and the first time a tilting train is being put in the game. I’m personally excited for it!
     
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  15. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    Well I know it was different from older videos and satellite imagery. A few platforms had derelict shelters. On some more recent videos, around like 2017, those platforms were ripped up. Then on newer videos, 2020 etc the platforms are back but without the older shelters.

    I personally don't know what has changed about the area in game unless it's timetable related, sorry!
     
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  16. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Is there a possibility to make the RP 185 available as substitution for other routes? And are any yards filled with static waggons/locos/trains? For example the one side of dresden hbf, where in DRA are also randomly some locos parked? :)
     
  17. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    I don't know, sorry! I didn't work on the DRA timetable.
     
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  18. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    So that means we got another Joe's original at hand? Getting more and more excited for this release <3
     
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  19. bobbobberdd

    bobbobberdd Well-Known Member

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    We have already seen the Railpool 185 on a different Route. When Matt (the G6 Preview I think) streamed, he accidentally showed the RP 185 for a few seconds on Rhein Ruhr Osten. So I guess it will be available as a Substitute for the MRCE 185.5.
     
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  20. tibomatthijs

    tibomatthijs Well-Known Member

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    The connecting thing is because the tech for it isn't there. It would take loads of time to make that, they need to make the tech; make whole new timetable, 'new route, , maybe price etc... They better work on other things then connecting them imo
     
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  21. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    Haha :D well I wouldn't expect it to be anywhere near 1,200 services though lol. If you take a quick look at the DB timetables site, it'll give you a rough idea of what to expect. https://reiseauskunft.bahn.de/bin/q...fasScrollDir=1#hfsseq3|kw.02658540.1640011811

    In 2021, each of the services runs 1tph. So that'll be 3tph in each direction between Dresden Hbf and Tharandt.

    Thanks to Lukas, he provided me with 2012 timetables and local knowledge of the time period. The differences in 2012 was that RE 3, which you can see as being 1tph in 2021, was only 1tp2h, so once every two hours in each direction. Another service, IRE 1, ran back then also 1tp2h. Meaning RE3 and IRE 1 ran a 1tph service alternating between each other.

    Unfortunately, I had to take time off before I could finish the timetable. After spending every day of 5 months doing London to Brighton, I had taken 2 days off. All year. Put it off as long as I could but eventually had to take it. Some law about having a minimum amount off and I was apparently under. So big thanks to Matt for kindly finishing the timetable for me! I've been away for 2 weeks now and still another 2 weeks off, so I don't know exactly what has changed. Though I did manage to program a cool AI manoeuvre at Dresden Hbf which I hope you enjoy!
     
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  22. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Well-Known Member

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    Can you give any infos about (hopefully) decent freight timetable/decent freight consists?
     
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  23. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    I can't say any more than what's already been said on DT live unfortunately, sorry!

    Though when looking at real timetables, this is not really the route for freight. A few industries along the line have a just a few freight trains a week. The main reason for lower freight on this line is the hill. Lucas tells me it's far too steep for typical length freight trains to climb without an extra loco, which then costs more for the company to run. So they take alternative routes. The Dresden to Riesa route is your best bet if you want lots of freight runs.
     
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  24. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I think it's good now to have DRA, which has decent freight (like 500+ Meters, not like HHL, which has 200M, which is shorter than an ICE) and I hoped to get a bit of decent freight too, now since we know it's doable. But hey, thanks for the answer.
    Also, idc about lots of frreight, if we would get like 5to10 (maybe even more, who knows) trains with decent length and weight(600m-700m), that'd be more than enough IMO
     
  25. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    The freight trains that serve the industries will be shorter than most routes again because of the hill.

    Also you mention Hamburg to Lübeck freight trains are too short. This is conflicting with the reference I had. Do you have any documents that show the correct lengths for each type that you wouldn't mind me having a look at?
     
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  26. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Well-Known Member

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    It's not only Hamurg-Lübeck it's actually every route except DRA. 200 Meter freight train? I don't think that's profitable, that's why most of them are 600+ Meters.
     
  27. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah he’s asking for documentation that shows it’s wrong, as what DTG had/have contradicts what you are stating.
     
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  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    IIRC, many of the freight yards in and around the Ruhr are quite old and don't have very long sidings.
     
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  29. Higgybaby90

    Higgybaby90 Active Member

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    Just some videos along Hamburg-Lübeck with quite long freight (especially Intermodal trains are pretty long all over Germany)
    33 car Intermodal train in Lübeck (2021) at 10:15:

    (although this kind of freight car doesn't exist in TSW yet)

    35 car manifest train in Tonndorf (in 2011) at 02:15

    mostly hauling car carriers

    32 car intermodal train in Rahlstedt (2021) T 03:30 and another one at 5:30

    (also using mostly the truck waggons missing in TSW)
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2021
  30. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    That's excellent! Thanks, if I get an opportunity in the future to update the timetable, I'll see if I can make those trains longer.
     
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  31. Ben132465798

    Ben132465798 Well-Known Member

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    Cries in basically every german TSW2 route
     
  32. Higgybaby90

    Higgybaby90 Active Member

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    Glad I could help,
    sadly some videos or pics is all I can show here (sadly DB is very strict with it's "internal stuff")
    And don't think this means ALL freight is long in Germany (there can be quite short trains) ;)
    Mostly Intermodal and auto trains are often pretty long, manifest can vary a lot (the train that was long yesterday can be short today or even just a loco sometimes), unit trains like steel, tanker vary according to the location they go to or come from (yard length at the origin/destination) and of course the need can vary too
    May I ask what references you guys use?
    And if you want more informations, just ask (I'm sure we can find a way :cool: )
     
    Last edited: Dec 20, 2021
  33. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    Basically anything we can find lol. Timetables, diagrams and videos to get context on the train type etc. The videos you've linked are different to what I found. I don't know when I'll next be on a German route. But I'll keep in mind the lengths for future!
     
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  34. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    [​IMG]
     
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  35. Mighy

    Mighy Member

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    Yes, this is what I am afraid of. If building high qualitiy overhead wires is too expensive for the project, that would be a shame, but if it would be justified by the developers, why they made the step back, we could deal with it. Without a comment it would look like the end of the improvement in scenery quality.
    In the end, most of us may life with the "classic" cantenaries, when this one type of crappy double pole, as mentioned in my previous post, would be replaced by the newer one with tension rope...
     
  36. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    I am well aware of that, but you are still making very enjoyable timetables :)
     
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  37. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    All I ask is that you reproduce the RL timetable as nearly as possible, whatever the traffic density.
     
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  38. Cash

    Cash Well-Known Member

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    How busy and frequent are the S-Bahn services on this route? They’re my favourite to drive :D
     
  39. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    1tph, the RB provides another 1tph and there will be additional services during rush hour
     
  40. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    Well nearly all services IRL (2012) should be there! Lukas gave me an 8,000+ page timetable document for the whole of Germany 2012 :D including other lines from Dresden and Chemnitz to other places. Only BR 642 routes are missing because... we lack a 642 and an appropriate substitute. I did consider the 612, but as its built for an entirely different job, it didn't make sense. Lukas didn't think so either.
    Cramnor is correct. In addition, some peak services run to Freiberg.

    S1 and S2 ran a 2tph service each back in 2012 with no additional peak services, unlike 2021 where S1 can see up to 4tph in each direction.

    I also love S-bahn for what it is, high frequency traffic, lots of stops and high power/weight ratio stock. S3 is a little more subtle. :)
     
    Last edited: Dec 21, 2021
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  41. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

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    Looks like this route might be next it just leap frogged horseshoe curve,so i'm guess sometime in January perhaps.
     
  42. Wolfovizer

    Wolfovizer Well-Known Member

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    My goodness, I couldn't do your job I struggle with a single page of an A5 timetable, doesn't help I'm dyslexic though :)
     
  43. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    Haha well it's not so bad as it may sound. The document includes all timetabled routes in Germany :D so not all pages were needed. Each route in Germany have a number assigned. For Dresden-Chemnitz, the main two are KBS 510 and KBS 510.3. You can see them here in this table :D https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_..._Germany#Saxony/Thuringia_region_(500_to_599)

    Lukas gave me a map of the general area which showed the number next to each line. It also allowed me to see other lines out of Dresden and Chemnitz :D Find the line on the map, get the KBS number, find the number in the document, follow the timetables. :)
     
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  44. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    Is this represented somehow? TSW doesn't have BR180/CD371, so what would the BR 101 swap with?
     
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  45. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    Yep! You're right no 371s in game :( So please hear me out at least...

    I chose the MRCE 182 to represent the 371. MRCE are known to occasionally run passenger IC/EC services with their 182s. So not entirely fictional. They'll be using the IC coaches from the BR 101 add-on.

    I know it's not perfect but that's the best option I could think of going with. It's pretty fun to watch though. Found a video showing where the locos stable when not being used as well :D
     
    Last edited: Dec 22, 2021
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  46. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Honestly this sounds great.

    Will add a pretty unique consist to the route, can’t wait to see this in action.
     
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  47. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Does that mean you have to own both Hamburg-Lübeck and the Br 101 for this to get layered in or how does it work (if you're allowed to talk about it)?
     
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  48. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Since neither pieces of stock are included in the DLC then yeah I’d assume that, similar to needing NTP and TVL to get a class 37 Railtour option on UK routes since they are both separate pieces of stock.

    Whilst on the subject, I do hope DTG will allow us to make such consists within the scenario creator, it’d be nice to make these unique consists ourselves.
     
  49. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    Yeah as CK said HBK, HRR and the 101 will be required for those. Though they're in a separate layer to the IC traffic which does not require the 182. :D Should probably clarify that I was asked to make these layers PC/Gen 9 only for RAM reasons. I'm really sorry for that. :(
     
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  50. Nielsen

    Nielsen Well-Known Member

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    I’m glad to see it vaguely resembles RSN and MSB, as those are my favourite German routes in TSW.
     
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