PC Tharandter Rampe: Dresden – Chemnitz - The Definitive Feedback Thread

Isn't the BR 612 engine and traction motor the same as in the BR Class 220/221 in the UK?

 

So they went from not being used on RE3 to pretty much running it on its own? Also if RE3s are those 143+3 Dostos, that should be substitutable as it's 4 vehicles vs 4 vehicles (2 612s).

 

After watching the Livestream I'm very satisfied with the route. The 612 is very interesting and unique, it also sounds great. The number of services feels a little bit lacking but I guess that's the case IRL. The only thing I'm disappointed about is that HKW Chemnitz-Nord Power Station isn't available to use. I know I might be asking for too much but I would've loved to Shunt and unload Coal around the Power Station. It would've made the route so much more fun and interesting. Anyway, if the steam reviews are good on launch day I will buy it the next.

 

So, here are some thoughts on the route from a local resident.

The first stream was intended more as a presentation of the 612 and therefore the focus was understandably more on the driver's cab or details on the vehicle itself (which is fine).

But I really liked what I saw of the route. The scenery (including the more distant scenery) is extremely good - almost the best I've seen in TSW2 so far. From a scenery perspective, I really recognised everything without a problem.

The buildings and infrastructure were an interesting experience. When you know what the buildings are supposed to look like in real life, it's a bit surreal when they look kind of similar - but kind of different. Of course, it is quite clear that DTG cannot model every house on the route accurately, instead they have to make use of an asset pool to a large extent. But this has been done really well, the assets used often have a good similarity to the original buildings. I think the spirit of the infrastructure and architecture is captured very well.

What caught my eye in a hurry (Matt moves the camera always so fast...):

The area from Dresden to Freiberg is extremely well designed overall. Freital-Hainsberg with the narrow-gauge railway is awesome.
The area around Tharandt (one of my favourite places in real life) looked good too. I was especially pleased to see the church and the castle ruins. In general, DTG has implemented a lot of details off the track. I had the impression that they really went the extra mile here.
I also liked Freiberg, my home town. The relevant bridges and infrastructures are all there. There even seem to be some short branches, at least that's how it looked when Matt was hectically scrolling around the map. I'll have to take a closer look to be able to tell.
Freiberg station is well designed, the surrounding buildings sufficiently accurate, even the shopping mall at the station is recognisable (the backside).
A few small negative things: a very prominent and typical building (Hotel Alekto) next to the route is not well (or not at all) realised, to the left of the station (from-dresden-direction) there are a few big apartment blocks that don't belong there and in the area of the bridge over the federal road 173 the small road is missing that I always walk along to look at the railway line. Otherwise everything fits quite well, even the allotments are there.

I also like the section from Freiberg to Chemnitz very much. Bridges and viaducts seemed to be well realised (a lot of things could only be seen very briefly, because Matt was pretty busy talking and driving and answering questions and showing 612...).

Shortly after Flöha (I had a lot of fun with J.D.'s german pronunciation), the noise barrier on the federal road seemed to be missing - but it could be that it didn't exist there in 2012? Not sure. There seems to be a branch from Flöha that goes quite far (to about Hetzdorf?). But I'll have to take a closer look at that next week.

The Chemnitz area was also very well depicted, but it all looked more like 2021 (not 2012). Not a big problem for me but maybe for others.

Overall, the route is very well implemented from my point of view. Of course there are a few small inaccuracies and of course many typical buildings and structures are only approximations. But that's just the way it is and DTG manages to do what is important: to provide a very good and lifelike impression of the route and the landscape. I liked it a lot and was able to recognise everything without any problems (except for the poor Hotel Alekto ).

And much has already been said about the BR612. I found it just as cramped, noisy and slowly accelerating as I remember it. I was pleased that the GNT was implemented so well. To be honest, I thought DTG would install the GNT light, increase the speeds in the HUD and that's it. But they really went the extra mile here too. Also, I had the impression that EBULA will really be implemented at some point. The question no longer seemed to be 'if' but only 'when'.

 

there are 16 services actually 12 in passenger service and 4 depot services in total there are 26 services with the BR 612 joe and also why not add train coupling services as this does

 

WOW my overall thoughts on this route have been ruined knowing that small detail. <--sarcasm alert, shadows dont bother me!

Hentis

 

What I found interesting is that Matt said the team have started looking into EBuLa and what is required to make it work. Obviously, nothing is happening yet and there is no guarantee it will ever come, but that‘s a big step up from we‘d like to do it but no plans for it.

Agreed. What‘s interesting here is that Railpool owns units of two highly requested German loco classes - the Vectron (Br 193) and the Br 151. Based on their willingness to cooperate with DTG, it should be very easy to get reference material for these two.

 

I was pretty happy after last nights stream and I‘m looking forward to this.

None of the issues mentioned so far are ones that are going to bother me too much so I think I‘m really going to enjoy it.

I don’t know the real route at all, but the scenery did look very nice and I thought some of the bridges in particular looked good. Overall it’s a nice looking route with lots of gradient and twists and turns so ticks a lot of boxes for me.

As for the trains, I really like the 612. the tilting was quite impressive and I hope it means more tilting trains in the future. I also like the news that there was good collaboration with Railpool.

Overall a good preview for me.

 

The fact that Matt talked about Railpool assissting with reference material and that he somehow foreshadowed that there might be more railpool locos (because now they have the license + reference) in future. I guess this makes the Railpool Vectron 193 not unlikely. This loco can be used and actually every route as freight loco + could even be used if they ever do an Austrian route.

And Matt also said, that one of the points in making DCZ was that the route is a bit more "vintage" - something where german TSW content lacks in comparison to UK and US routes/locos. The narrow gauge passenger coaches show that they really start to get into more vintage locos. And that could mean we might get the Railpool BR 151.

Back to the route itself: I love it. I can't wait to explore the Railway museum and the roundhouses alongside the route. I know that there is at least one roundhouse where steam locos are parked as part of a railway museum. So this route might get a steam loco DLC or at least a steam layer, incase we ever get a german steam loco, which is neither confirmed nor denied. Happy to see that DTG goes more and more into the right direction. If you compare Rapid Trasit (locos, scenery, signalling, gameplay, timetable etc.) to DCZ, you can really see the jump between their first and their newest german route. I just ordered it and i can't wait to get dizzy in the 612!

 

Absolutely agree, maybe the recent simulator vs game thread helped a bit, since it was one of the main topics there, but whatever the reason it's great to see the project go forward as you say, and I can't wait for it. I also hope that (unlike the new PIS) it can be retrofitted to older routes without too much work (for example the gradient graph was retroactive as well), I wonder if it will have the correct speed limits based on gradients, but I'm afraid it's way too early to tell.

Exactly, I also think they owned the BR155, so it could be a good way to overhaul that locomotive similarly to what they have done with the BR185. But I hope we will get new good locos out of this partership as well (Vectron and BR151 are the two best examples). I wonder if we will get another Traxx 3 as well.

 

If I was a gambling man.....

This route can hold a steam dlc
Sherman can, I dare say horseshoe can
I'm pretty confident the next Uk route can hold a steam train too.

They're laying their stool out in all three continents ready , better to drop steam on an existing route I figure as you only need build a loco then

 

Up until around 2013/14, the 612 would run all express services (IRE and RE to Nürnberg). I believe in 2013, the electrification was finished, which meant the RE3 services were shortened to Hof and run by 143+3 Dostos, while the IRE remained to Nürnberg with 612 (basically the timetable we have in game). Shortly after, the IRE was discontinued, and the gaps were filled by additional RE3 services, all of which were operated by a new TOC with BR1440 from then on.

disclaimer: Not a 100% certain on the dates, but its in the right ballpark and wiki will have the exact years.

 

Matt's been saying they're researching Ebula for a while; I don't think that thread had much to do with it. Is the text on the Ebula that small IRL? It seems very small and the sort of thing that'd just get lost in aliasing when zoomed out (like the screens on the Traxx locos).

 

The text on the Ebula screen is way too small, even zooming in I couldn't comfortably see it on a 55" tv so no chance on a monitor or laptop. The funny thing is it could easily be bigger as it only takes up a small piece of the screen. It would be a good QoL adjustment. Maybe even cheese it a bit and have some of the buttons around the screen make the text bigger/smaller to add functionality to the MFD?

 

I thought the route looked gorgeous and the 612 will be an interesting and fun train to drive. I’m off for four days from Friday next week, so very tempted to pick it up, but I really do worry about the bugs that’ll get through to launch (and the PS5 performance and DLC limit issues )

 

Nah its big enough.

 

Thanks for the real photo, it proves the point, the writing is indeed too small.

 

Liked what I saw.
Scenery designers have done a great job.
Trees in general and distant trees in particular are well handled.
Some older routes could benefit from the improvements.
Definitely buying.

 

Thanks for posting this; it makes the route even more impressive for me.

I look forward to the chance to have an extended visit to Germany so that I can actually ride on the routes I have enjoyed in TSW.

 

I’m really looking forward to seeing that screen in action and whether it updates live

 

Good call. In a different thread, we recently hooked up another forum user (who may or may not be the reason for the freight improvements on Dresden-Riesa - you know whom I‘m talking about) with a real 155 manual. Doesn‘t mean anything, but at least there‘s someone passionate about German freight and with access to the manual in contact with DTG.

 

Yes, I can recommend that. Dresden is absolutely worthwhile from a tourist point of view, and from there you can make day trips to the Ore Mountains (Freiberg, Chemnitz, etc.).

Or have a look here - the train hotel in Wolkenstein (Ore Mountains).

 

I had planned to spend a couple of days based in Dresden but due to covid my hotel cancelled my bookings as tourists weren't permitted ;(

That said did get a ride along both Chemnitz and Riesa lines.

 

Very unique scenery for the destination signs DB BR612 it should have area destinations like the former East German Border Station of Gutenfürst and it's West German equivalent Hof. DB BR612 should be added to Schnellfahrstrecke Köln-Aachen as AI traffic around Düren

 

I hope it was fun anyway!

 

Sure was, downside is I didn't get to see Dresden itself or do the Meissen Branch. Just means I will have to come back another time and do another interrail trip. As you can imagine that is some hardship for me!!

 

There is something I have seen that I don't understand. In the timetable shown for Railpool 185 there are many extremely short services, is this a mistake? I hope that there are not only 20 services and that half of them last only a few minutes.

 

They are Stabling moves: parking the loco for the night. They should be short.

 

I know.. Brexit and stuff. But i don't think the UK is its own continent. Yet. But who knows what the future will be like?

 

The pick ups are clearly collecting wagons for the next run. I've absolutely zero issue with these shorter services it adds variety to the schedule.

We can't expect LC and NDR level of services on every route especially when this would be unrealistic.

My only complaint is when there's not enough time between sections to do them back to back without screwing up dispatch, as we saw with SH

 

Mmmm well, it could be but.... What's the point of splitting the first four movements? It could perfectly well be a single service, couldn't it? Is it because it sounds better to say that there are "20 services" than "5 services"? So we will complain less? XD
Besides, what about part 1? Where is part 2?
I think it's a mistake.

 

By three continents, he means Europe, North America, and North North America

 

Probably in the belief that many players want to stop driving when they reach the last station and don't want to bother with subsequent housekeeping.

 

So does that mean that the 143 shouldn't be running re3 services? If so i hope that is sorted

 

It a service involves a reversal it needs to be split or it breaks the game

 

It could be that the train is changing directions, and because the AI is a bit dim, itwon't change the headlights - the only way to do it is to split the services. On Cathcart, you'll see trains entering Glasgow having come from the depot with their tail lights on the front and headlights on the back.

 

There are many reasons:

1. Some people might specifically want to bring the train into the first station (and this makes it obvious which one is the service).
2. Some people do not want to bring the train into the station because they think it is a waste of time.
3. Because of the way the service timetable is added to the game (there is a DTG stream about that), it is easier and more maintainable to just make a different service that brings the train to the first station and then make it do a "normal" service (that is then copy/pasted X times for other similar services) than making a completely new service that brings the train to the station and continues doing all the line stops.

 

You haven't seen the news?

Robert from Leamington Spa has went to arms to dig up the entire UK with no more than a bucket and a shovel! He thinks he'll be able to lift the island up and turn it into a boat, to get away from those Europeans!

At the same time though, big Tam from Dumfries and Willie from Aberdeen have taken up arms to dig a canal to make Scotland an Island of it's own (Forgetting how both the earth works and all), and sail away from the English.

Crazy Times

 

I think Matt said that after Cathcart (which has a lot of forward and backwards movement in the depot) they figured out it was better to split the services when the travel direction changes, because otherwise there are problems with the headlights and driver position.

 

Depends on the time period. It certainly did not in 2012, i was regularly on the line until beginning of 2013 and there were no Dostos to be seen on the express services.

 

Thanks for the explanations redrev1917
Cameron's Gaming
Inkar FD1003 , I honestly didn't know this technical problem to turn the train, now I understand it better.

I was watching the video again and it's awesome, what a great route DTG has made. The scenery is very detailed and feels very varied so they have made great use of the assets. The worst thing is undoubtedly the catenary but this may change in future routes it seems.
And what about the BR 612? It looks and sounds very very good, it's hard to think that this is the first train they have made with this tilting technology and that it has turned out so well. Credit here again to TSG, who for me is the King Midas of TSW because everything he touches turns to gold.

With all the layers it's going to be fun just to be an observer in the Dresden area, there's going to be a lot of train movement!

What else can I say? I can't wait for Thursday to enjoy this gem

Edit: I forgot to comment on the HORRIBLE sounds of BR 185.6, it's incomprehensible that having better ones, they have decided to torture our ears again with the older ones. I wanted to register my dissatisfaction for this reason.

 

I think the biggest inconsistency in this pack is the time period. It seems a bit of a muddle. Dresden is deliberately set around 2012, Chemnitz appears to be set today (according to others with local knowledge: the city and the station), the timetable is set in an indeterminite period that is appearently when 612s were being phased out, but not in any particular year officially.

The Railpool loco is apparently not something that would have been around in 2012 so that is also a bit off, but it is included because the licence is now available. (?)

Other routes have had a particular date attached to the timetable, here it seems a bit unclear.

My suggestion would be that this route should use some artistic licence and just have a notion that where there are different options and choices the most interesting ones should be chosen. Yes they might not be exactly contemporaraneous but overall it will make for the most fun.

 

Agreed, DTG have a number of conflicting decisions with this DLC, regarding the time period, it’s not the first time this has happened and it’s not necessarily a bad thing, but when it comes to the 612 only having 10 services, because that is the reality (which isn’t entirely true), why all of a sudden is the ‘artistic license’ not there?

The 612 is probably the biggest draw in for this DLC, and I certainly think it’s been done dirty with regards to the timetable.

 

That's good point, I have nothing against Joe, as I don't believe that was his fault, but ironically they have chosen the worst possible time for the timetable in this othewise very anachronistic route. Given the lack of an official time period I think the better option would be to make the RE3 services simply a substitution between the 612 and the BR143, hopefully since both sets are made of 4 elements I think it could work, but I am not sure, maybe it necessarily needs to be a 2+2 set

 

I think we are all getting our expectations set to high by LC, work it out, 10 services at an hour each in 3 differing weather conditions (at a mimimum, dry wet and snow) is still 30 hours worth of game play before we start on the 143 on S3 services and freight.

That's a lot of bang for our buck by any measurement.

 

Yeah I definitely wouldn’t blame Joe, in fact I imagine his job is made harder by the sheer fact that he was locked into the time period, but not at the same time.

With regards to subbing I’m not sure how it works, it’s been explained in such a way that it needs to be a 1-1 swap, so a loco for loco, or 3 set MU for 3 set MU, however according to last nights stream, the Talent 2 will be subbing for a 143 with a low chance, so I’m not sure how that will work.

Personally I think it should of been done the same as the RE50 from NRD, just build the 612 into a few services on the RE3 timetable, so it wouldn’t need to sub, and you would still get the realistic setting of a phase out.

 

Somehow everyone forgets that we also get the V60 aus well. So some good shunting with a top notch loco is included.

 

I don’t think anyone is taking issue with price, it’s just disappointing to get a brand new train, with all new technology, which is also Germany’s first DMU in TSW, and we get such a small timetable for it.

 

Joe jas already said there's another dozen services to added. But even without them 30hrs game play os good numbers. Sometimes I wondered if the game base would prefer 50 x 10 min services over 10 60 min services

 

Misplaced optimism/not reading what I type