Preservation Crew Update List Order Feedback

Here is the order of what the preservation crew update look like from taken from Trainsimworld.com Website.

Projects that are being tackled by the Preservation Crew. Many of these upgrades will simply be adding the latest game functionality to an older route. The additions or changes in the “upgrade” will include some or all of the following: station departure boards, animated crossings, platform climb-up functionality, improved track rendering, Rush Hour passenger density and appearance, support for RailDriver, contact signaller functionality, minor fixes to scenery, minor fixes to audio, minor fixes to gameplay, minor fixes to menu items, Livery Designer compatibility and Scenario Planner expansion.

• Sand Patch Grade update
• Peninsula Corridor upgrade
• Great Western Express upgrade
• Northern Trans-Pennine upgrade
• Ruhr-Sieg Nord upgrade
• Oakville Subdivision upgrade
• Tees Valley Line upgrade
• Hauptstrecke Rhein-Ruhr upgrade
• Rhein-Ruhr Osten upgrade
• Schnellfahrstrecke Köln update
• East Coastway upgrade
• MP36PH-3C Baby Bullet update
• MP15DC Switcher update
• Main Spessart Bahn update
• Rapid Transit update
• Long Island Railroad update
• West Somerset Railway update

I think the order should be like this since Harlem Line: Metro-North is almost coming out i think, the LIRR Update should be on top with the Penisula Corridor Update, which makes more sense. As how TrainSim-Adam stated, It should be by regions, such as the US, UK, and German. This would make more sense, rather than for it to be on the bottom of the list.

 

The problem with ordering them by popularity, as others have said, is that some routes (looking at you LIRR) aren't played a lot precisely because they are desperately, pathetically in need of fixing. This approach gets it backwards- There isn't anything especially wrong with SPG, NTP or RSN, and the "upgrades" are basically fluff (crossing gates, clouds, platform climb-up) rather than repairing gamebreaking bugs and system failures on the routes that have them.

 

I have every single DLC, and I have not found a single one of them that is un-playable

 

In terms of "crashes a lot and/or broken red signals," yes, that's my experience. But there are some which are certainly "unpleasant to play - and so I don't - until they fix some glaring errors"- like the completely LOVEd up signaling on LIRR and Boston.

 

but wouldn't it make more sense to do it by region, also because the Harlem line is coming?

 

Un-pleasant on that I agree

Ps. I was not saying they are perfect, but all are playable, on all the train is acting like a train, and sound like a train

 

I would prefer, get the level crossings, sky box (or new sky system), platform jumps, basic PIS and raildriver working on ALL routes and release all of them, then work on bugfixes from "most affected" to least, as in the routes which become almost unplayable to those which just need tweaks.

 

It depends what you consider unplayable. For me Boston Sprinter is unplayable due to its bugs with signalling and it's not even on the list. Rapid Transit is unplayable for me due to LZB bugs on the 182, then there's the Talent which has countless bugs. I can continue.

 

Boston doesn't come under preserved crew yet, should be fixed by main team
RT - I guess the question is whether you can drive without the LZB turned on. If yes then the game is playable. Maybe not to your standard but still

Of course we could go through every loco, route etc and pick out endless bugs which people may find unacceptable, but the default is "can you move the train?", if so then it's playable

 

If standards are so low, then it's playable.

 

Except the lirr m7. The audio on that train cuts out completely on the whole train.

 

You have a point. But then what about fun to play. Imagine for instance if the 612 on Thardnter Rampe (which is a really good route in my opinion) had no engine audio like how the M7 on LIRR has no motor audio. Yes the route is playable but people wouldn't play the route and there would be outrage. So there also has to be a standard instead of if you can move the train then that's it, route's playable .

With this mindset, they may as well release Spirt Of Steam with the 8F and Jubliee without any engine noise, no steam coming out and without the huff and puff that a steam train makes. Sure the train would move but do you think many people would play the route and enjoy it. People wouldn't and it would cause outrage.

So people need to have some standard other than the train moves then it's playable. Frankly lirr is unplayable for me because of no motor audio on the M7.

 

I agree with this

 

People can quote all sorts of reasons why for them something is wrong or unplayable. The BR class 150 is a case in point where the engine setup is just wrong causing the sound to be wrong, the acceleration to be wrong and the whole knock on effects from it
But it's still playable to a point.
With major faults like sound, systems failures etc there should be an emphasis from DTG on getting these things fixed, tested and updated. But there isn't and people need to deal with that and ACT on it...

 

Issues need to be fixed but there is a very big difference between something being unplayable and something not meeting your standards making you unwilling to play it.

 

To me something qualifies as unplayable if it's so faulty that it makes me not want to play it, even though I would love it otherwise - LIRR being the perfect example.

 

Yesterday I tried some of the busier times on London Commuter again because I was previously experiencing crashes on early morning runs (making the rush hour times of the route mainly unplayable). No crashes this time but both the runs I tried were LV to Reigate and both ended up at red signals causes by stuck AI trains thus these services, some of the best in the timetable, are unplayable. On a side note I walked to Redhill station where I encountered around 50 men on the station and all but one of them was bald. Tearing their hair out because the trains were stuck, I imagine, but not something that makes the game or any service unplayable.

The inconsistent safety system alerts on the 377 and 387 make playing with DSD impossible. That might not count as unplayable to some but it is a major system that needs to work flawlessly for the way a large number of players drive. I’d put it above some services not being able to be completed as a bug to be fixed, as it puts driving realistically out of the question. I’d say it’s verging on making the entire route unplayable for some people. I’ve been driving without the bottom right HUD on for some services but I have to guess if an AWS alarm has sounded sometimes and using DSD is out of the question because it is almost inevitable that at least one alert will be missed in a run.

So unplayable can be subjective but it really should work better than it does. That’s just one route as an example.

 

Here we go again with the preserved collection fixes... The issue isn't the order they will come out in. The huge problem is that many fixes have been ready for months are still not released! This list is just another waste of time.

 

TrainSim-Adam TrainSim-Matt DTG Natster I hope they didn't miss out on fixing the trainset of LIRR M3A and M7A cause the sound audio is horrible, and not up to standard such as the track noise is unrealistic, the horn is way too low, and for some reason, it doesn't have high horn as well as the bell, the light still is not bright, the signal system is broken, and sometimes you get held by the red signal so long. The timetable is also not the same as the real world. Overall the route and trains need a huge update up to the rush hour standard and the new route.

 

Does anyone find it strange that DTG is struggling how to release these fixes and want the communities input? They didn't seem to want our input over the core release and Rush Hour releases when a few us said they were to close together. They don't seem to want our input when they decide on new routes. We are also told that the forums are not the total amount of players, time and time again.

But all of a sudden they want our feedback on important fixes for the preserved routes? I maybe sceptical but it sounds like a stalling tactic to me. As fabristunt said above just get on and release them we have been waiting for months but DTG if you really need help in deciding how to release them then release them in order, the route that was made first gets their fixes and then so on until all 17 have been done. But I guess DTG don't want an answer yet they will want to string it out at least for several more roadmaps yet.

 

Last time I checked playing a games with bugs in it isn't going to get anyone arrested.

I don't really get your point here, something being literally illegal is entirely different from something failing to meet your criteria to be willing to play a particular piece of content.

Sure, perhaps there is a fault with a piece of content that prevents you from enjoying it as you would like (non or faulty safety equipment for example) but the content itself can be played and the objectives can still be completed, therefore it is still playable. Issues with signals, for example, that prevent you from completing certain senarios or services, now that is unplayable.

I'm not trying to make a defence case for DTG here, I'm just pointing out that people are throwing around 'unplayable' in situations where it is quite simply an exaggeration.

Does that make the issues any less important or any less of a priority to fix? No, of course not, these faults should absolutely be fixed and as soon as possible as they do severely impact the player experience, but that by no means makes them unplayable.

 

I think that points to a nub of the problem: The Preservation Crew, having completed its original remit to port TSW2020 content to TSW2, was given the portfolio for bringing those older routes up to 'contemporary' feature standard with things like grade crossings, PIS, skyboxes etc. Fine. Then somehow TSW2-native routes older than about a week and a half got dumped in as well. Okay, I guess.

But THEN they also somehow got lumbered with bug fixes as well. This was a mistake. DTG should have, and should have had, a dedicated 'repair squad' unencumbered by feature upgrades, holding third parties' hands, or anything else other than fixing bugs.

__________________________
Anyway, the current arrangement is what it is. Adam, if you're reading this, the important thing is to get SOMETHING, ANYTHING released, NOW, not nearly so much which happens to be the lucky route.

 

What do people think about the current M3A and M7A train for the LIRR, Do you think that it will be with the LIRR Preservation Update?

 

The preservation update of lirr should contain the sound fix on the m7 beside the common preservation points.

All customers of lirr bought the route with its current timetable. Its not like adding a few services makes it any better like in wsr.

My point is instead on adding 10 new services with the preservation update, why not make a gameplay dlc out of it which focuses on the lirr timetable only (a joe time table .

This way the routes potential can be used better without leaving it behind.

 

Would actually make me play this route.
The fact its a preserved route however probably means that no major investment will be made. Still it would be Nice...

 

LIRR already has a busier timetable ready, it just doesn't work because of the buggy ATC/dispatcher. So they should only fix the ATC, then we could instantly have a busy and enjoyable LIRR.

 

glad to see NTP is high in the list of much needed love. It is my favorite Route and i haven't played with it for several months, exactly because i'm waiting for some preservation attention before going back to that depot and appreciating it. Currently I'm having some fun with TVL wich i acquired on a sale last year...

 

I‘m pretty new to TSW and this forum.
A lot of you have been talking about so called „ATC/dispatcher“.

What exactly does this have to do with making the timetables busier and is there already an improvement/better dispatcher in sight?

 

LIRR is a case in point for me, as probably my favourite USA route. I haven't even got it installed at the moment as the sound bug is immersion breaking. But, the much too quiet timetable is also an issue for me, if that doesn't change then it will probably remain unistalled, sound fixes or not. I would purchase the M3 to go with it but not unless they make the timetable not resemble a line threatened by the Beeching cuts of the sixities. Okay an exaggeration but it should be much busier than it is.

 

Dispatcher is responsible for allocating routes to a service, controlling the automatic switches and signals.

ATC is a safety system that prevents trains from running red lights and colliding and such, by applying emergency brake if needes.

In the case of LIRR, the ATC is buggy and doesn't respond properly, so when they tried to implement a busier timetable with more trains on the line, trains ended up running red signals and rear-ending each other in the simulation. At least that's what they've told us once.

 

No it wasn't the AI running through Reds, it was the player because of the ATC being buggy mess you wouldn't get sufficient warning of a red and so will just end up spadding. With the current timetable the route is empty enough for that to not be much of a problem, but when you add more trains it becomes a game breaking problem. The AI don't care about ATC, infact AI just doesn't know about its existence (or any safety system for that matter) and they will in theory never spad because they know well in advance the state of the signals (far far beyond what the player knows). So as an AI route the improved LIRR timetable worked fantastically... for a player driving experience it could be described as absolutely terrible!

 

Not that it's just buggy. It's modeled incorrectly. ATC on the LIRR is effectively the singaling system of the railroad since the railroad in real life doesn't have that many physical signals. The issue is that it doesn't inform the player when to stop the train due to another train ahead as it does in real life.

If you were to look at the signal speed limit numbers in the cab, next to the 15 MPH box there is STOP box next to it. In real life if there was a train blocking your path not too far ahead of the train you would drive, the stop indicator would go off telling the operator to stop the train. If the operator didn't stop the train, the emergency brakes would apply automatically stopping the train. In tsw that isn't simulated which leads to ai trains stoping within inches of one another and as a player since it doesn't inform you to stop the train, you would crash into another ai train if your not paying attention to see other trains. I have created a few scenarios in scenario planner in LIRR which proves just exactly how broken the atc is. I'll put them in the creators club once it launches.

(I made the scenarios to have delays around Jamaica station so if you wonder why you won't move for a while, it's because the trains that are at Jamaica don't move for around 10-15 minutes.)

 

Even one of the original scenarios demonstrates it perfectly. I don't remember which one it is, but you go towards NY Penn and the ATC is showing you a constant 80MPH (even though you pass through a yellow signal, but the ATC doesn't care), so if you're careless and go as the ATC shows then you will SPAD and run into the train in front of you as by the time the ATC realizes you've caught up to it, you don't have any chance to stop.

There is no way in hell that is prototypical, as I can't imagine the LIRR being one of America's busiest railways with an ATC like that. To be honest, the best would be if they implemented a working ACSES on it so people would actually have an easier time to drive on the route. I know the route originally is set in a timeframe where ACSES wasn't implemented on the route yet, but it doesn't look prototypical time frames are a focus anymore (for example Diesel Legends, West Cornwall, the incorrect station on the newest German route or the new expansion packs). And the ACSES box is already there in the cabs of both the M3 and the M7. With both traditional ATC and ACSES available, people could drive as they prefer.

 

Well, all the signal in the New York subway trainset (LIRR) are yellow, I have not seen a single green or red, only yellow

 

They use the old PRR positional system, where signals are read sort of like clock dials. Colors aren't needed.

 

So you are saying there never is any green or red,
So the driver is always under the caution, or better known as yellow

 

I would mix popularity with issue severity, so:

1. SPG [it has to line up with the expansion pack]
2. SKA [same reason as n.1 - I realise this might not be possible as it needs more work, so count it as ASAP]
3. Peninsula Corridor [n.1 for popularity and one of the first to be finished, I feel like putting it any lower would cause massive backlash, it's also a big update and the route today is really showing its age]
4. Rapid Transit [no matter how unpopular, being unable to use PZB on the Talent, and have an inaccurate speedometer on the BR182 is not acceptable]
5. Baby Bullet [it makes sense it's close to its home route]
6. MP15 [same reason as n.5]
7. GWE
8. NTP
9. OSD [I bumped it up one place as I feel RSN is in a better state currently than OSD - subjective and possibily wrong as I don't own OSD]
10. MSB [I feel like it needs an update more than RSN - which is still a decent route today]
11. RSN [It's similar to MSB - to me it makes sense those are released close to each other - might cause backlash due to people feeling like it's just Germany though, so not sure]
12. TVL
13. LIRR [If this update contains signalling, timetable and/or train upgrades it should be released earlier, but I understand it's just PIS, Sky and Crossings - if I'm wrong it should be place n.7 because of the awful M7 audio and signalling/timetable issues]
14. HRR [Moved down because there is nothing particularly wrong with the route now, and this should be a basic update]
15. RRO [Same reason as n.11 - change MSB with HRR]
16. WSR [This should move up to match a possible steam timetable/substitution]
17. ECW [Moved down because it already has many features that other DLC lack - such as PIS - and still holds up today as a very good route. This should be moved up if the update makes it possible to use the BML Class 377 - if that's the case it should be n.11 splitting MSB and RSN]

 

No, not at all. It is a purely positional system; color is irrelevant. In that system, yellow doesn't mean "Caution," it doesn't mean anything. They could just as well be white (in fact they used to be). "Stop" is not red, but two lights in the horizontal axis. "Proceed" is not green, but two lights in the vertical axis.

 

Similar to tram signals in Europe then. They don't have red, yellow and green, only horizontal, vertical and angled (for directions)

 

I have to agree, this make sense for me.

LIRR should really by heavly updated with timetable. It doesnt do justice to true route. RT is a no brainer. I want to use it but refrain myself waiting for a nice update..

 

Well, I hate to throw a hand grenade in here for fear of damaging some Karen's but we're t nitpicking on some bits that do not always stop you from doing a journey.

i couldn't even make it to the bottom of this thread and my sympathy for those at DTG trying too

 

Exactly, no wonder RT is one of the most unpopular routes, it's currently the most broken in terms of trains. Followed closely by LIRR, sadly I don't remember wether the upgrade includes anything beyond the basic sky/crossing/PIS though.

 

How is it nitpicking? I mean regarding LIRR, it is being advertised as "America's busiest railroad", yet it's one of the emptiest in the game. Totally misleading, and while technically the route is playable, it doesn't offer the experience it is advertised with. Then let's not even start with the ATC that is misbehaving even with such an empty timetable and the sound and control issues of both rolling stock on the route.

Being able to do a journey shouldn't be the standard expectation. I want to enjoy the game, not just suffer through it with the bare minimum features.

 

The issue isn't the routes broken, I'd be really surprised if there is anything here that hasn't been fed back, screen shotted, bug reported, spoken about on a stream etc etc. Again I don't think the issue is things are broken, we all have a tolerance to what's acceptable. The issue is close to a year for things to find a delivery slot, to be released simultaneously, get through qa and all the other things we've heard. I'm not suggesting things are not fed back, it's important they are but we shouldn't need to keep going over it and over it, the patches should be quicker

 

Well yeah, there are two issues. One is that many bugs or issues go unresolved for years (like the whole LIRR, lol), but nowdays even if something gets updated (like Peninsula Corridor), the update doesn't get released for months, for some reason.

The fact that every small update (like the recent release of the ACS-64 livery) break even more stuff every time doesn't help either. I mean Boston Sprinter released in a pretty good state, since then they improved on the signalling somewhat, bug introduced other issues in it, managed to break the brake handle on the MBTA cab car and certain function of the ACS-64 are also not working. Or how Sherman Hill was pretty good as well, but then they managed to break the ATC and the collectibles are still not collectible even after an update that was spefically released to fix that issue.

I wonder how do things like this even happen? No communication and documentation between the developers? Surely they at least use GitHub or some sort of version handler, right?

 

I would argue that nonfunctional signal and safety systems come very close to "broken. " Certainly for me, since playing without them is, for me, unsatisfying and certainly not "simulation.' (In that regard, I even regard running my beloved Sand Patch as a form of 'cheating,' since ACS should be in it)

 

I would argue that list is unfair especially to those who do not have the routes at the top of your list. I have no idea what the list was in which the routes came out but surely that would be fairest to everyone? Oldest first. Some people will always be frustrated but surely the fairest way has to be found.

 

I based my list on the one posted by OP, which I assume is ordered by popularity. I also moved some items that are receiving bigger updates (for example Peninusla has a big update, OSD should have the Baby Bullet layer - while most other routes only have the usual sky/pis/crossings). I only justified the things I moved around. I tried to be as unbiased as possible, notice I put a lot of add-ons I do not own above some I do own. But whatever you decide it's always going to be unfair to some people, and honestly if I went full subjective/selfish I would put RT, SKA and ECW first as those are the routes I will play the most in the near future. While completely removing stuff like SPG and OSD which I couldn't care less about lol.

As I said, I tried to move upwards older routes that are either in a bad state now or are receiving bigger than normal updates, while still mainting a rough popularity older (so chances are more people will have routes that are more towards the top - apart from stuff like RT and LIRR that are probably popular-ish but not played much because they are so old/in a bad state - assuming DTG by popularity doesn't mean numbers of copies sold, but how much is currently played), and in fact the first two routes are the base ones.

Mentions of steam and the expansion pack were based on the assumption that those additions (wether it's the expansion pack to SPG and SKA or steam locomotives in WSR), will increase the number of people playing those old routes, thus justifying a prioritisation.

I'm Sorry, but I don't understand how ordering by release date is fairer, particularly when there are routes like ECW, which is among the oldest but has already received significant upgrades.

 

I'll greatly appreciate working crossing gates of all types for all countries but, like a good Missourian, I'll believe it when I see it.

 

I don't as I have deleted them but could get them back but saying that I have no objection for them getting the treatment first, seems fair. And to carry that fairness on the next route to be released should be chosen and then so on no?