EDIT: I have an update on this story. There is actually an AI service that uses part of this section. If you want to find out more, click here to skip to the part where I actually talk about it. Now for those who have gotten or played with Sherman Hill lately, you will know that there is one big piece of the route that was left out, which was the grand majority of Track 3, between Cheyenne and Dale Junction. For those that don't know what it is, track 3 is the most recent part of the Sherman Hill route, being built in 1953. The line itself is incredibly twisty, but is less steep than the main route that is represented in TSW2 at the moment, being at 0.82% ruling grade compared to the 1.55% ruling grade of the main route, which allows journey times for heavier freight trains on this route to be reduced. In this representation, the only part of track 3 that was represented was the section between Hermosa and Laramie via Red Buttles, while the rest between Dale Junction and Cheyenne was left out, as seen on the map below (excuse badly drawn circle to try and label where track 3 is). The reason for this was similar to why Riesa-Dresden's branch lines write were originally cut, which was simply because there wasn't enough time to complete it in the time frame DTG had to make this route (I even remember Matt in the first preview stream saying that what ultimately sealed it was the auto-gen system not helping anywhere near what the team would have liked in order to make the time more manageable to create this route). However, like Riesa-Dresden's branches, the tracks were allegedly, all laid out for Track 3. So this got me wondering... ...is this actually true? And if so... what does it look like in game? Well, thanks to taking advantage of a glitch, I was able to go and out and see whether what DTG actually said about track 3 actually rang true. Going back to that question I just asked, I can now say having explored the area where this section is around, that the answer to the former question is... Yes, all of the tracks Track 3 has been laid out, even if it's blocked off and not visible on the map. To answer the later question, I have gone along the whole of Track 3 in free cam, starting at Dale Junction and travelling all the way to where it re-joins the main route around Cheyenne Chemical Plant. Along the way, I took various screenshots of key locations and areas that I generally find interesting along this part, and I have a lot of show you all here, so without further ado, let's get into this. Dale Junction Now before actually getting into the inaccessible parts, let me show you something you can access, which is the big hill at Dale Junction. I actually quite like that this area is accessible on foot and the view from the top is quite nice. Probably one of the better made parts of the this routes. You're probably wondering why I brought you up here. Well, if we take a look around... See the single-track line on the right. That's track 3, which is the direction in which we are going towards. Now before actually getting into the inaccessible parts, I want to make this absolute clear. I have not modded or done any modding myself in order to access the parts you are about to see. How I was able to get into section is pretty simple. I got on a Cheyenne bound train that made a stop at Hermosa and as the train was coming up to the Hermosa Tunnel, I continually pressed 2 (to bring up the boom camera) followed by pressing 8 to bring up the free camera. This was similar to how I was able to get outside of London Commuter when I made a thread showing the outside sections of that route, but that way (if you time it right), you end up spawning outside of map and I was able to go off and explore Track 3 from here. I don't think I can put this off not longer, so without further ado, shall we go see what Track 3 looks like in TSW2? Dale Junction to Perkins The first image you see here is just looking back one more time to the hill at Dale Junction. Looking behind, you have this nicely made cutting that you can see from the main route. This is also the last part of this section that is well made that you see for a while From here, it's mostly no scenery, with maybe the occasion signal or whistlepost marker that you will see from time to time. For the most part, the texturing has be laid around here, but here isn't much else around here. Perkins Our first big stop is Perkins, one of the many passing loops location along this section. Here, the tracks have all be laid for it, as well as the signalling for this area, but that's pretty much it from around here. Perkins to Harriman Interesting texturing that's in the shape of a circle. Signal next to what could be a level crossing. One of the many whistlepost markers located along this section. Another lonely signal. Continues on next post...
Section of track that is partly floating, leading towards... Harriman Next stop is Harriman, another passing loop. Pretty much the same as Perkins, all the tracks and signalling is laid out, but not much else is around here. Apart from this road texturing that runs alongside the route. Nice view looking out towards the the surrounding hills/edge of the map. Harriman to Lynch More partly floating tracks. Another signal. Whistlepost markers either side of the track. Part where the texturing stops for a bit. Includes another lonely signal. Texturing returns, sort of. Another lonely signal. Interesting track placement leading into... Lynch Another major passing point along this section, nothing much else to say other that repeating what was said about Perkins and Harriman for the most part. Lynch to Emkay Continues on next post...
Interesting embankment. Now we are at a section where the route actually comes quite close to the main route, as you see a few scenery items, which include the wind turbines around what would be Otto at this point. Two more lonely signals (above and below) Emkay Now we come to a good one. At first glance, it may seem that might be as much to talk about Emkay as there is the other three locations I have shown already. But if we just go a little further on... …we find that there's actually quite a bit of scenery built up around here. This is one of those areas that, if you didn't know any better, you would assume this was actually part of the route as some hidden away area that no-one would ever think of going to. Emkay to West Speer …and this actually continues for a little while longer, even after leaving Emkay. But as good as this area looks, there is a reason why this whole area is quite well made... Take a look at this image, see those buildings on the left? Want to have a closer look at them? (Excuse clock and AP counter, forgot to remove HUD before taking this image) See that? That's the main running route that you can access right now. You see, this whole section come quite close to the main route, as we get closer to Borie and of course, the end of the route at Cheyenne, as seen on the map below. A train even came past while I was in this area, just to show you how close the two tracks actually come to each other here. But moving on... Level crossing with stop lights and a tyre left against an electricity poll. Continues on next post...
A pond just on in the background from the crossing. The scenery is now much barer from here on out, but you do have the scenery of the main route off in the background. West Speer/Borie Cutoff We are now closing in on Speer and we have come to the point were Track 3 meets up with the cutoff coming from Borie. Now before going further, I decided to go down the Borie Cutoff to see what I could find. As you can tell, not much is here, but the scenery does improve as you get closer to the main route. The last image you see above is the point where the track coming from West Speer first appears on the map and as far as we are going in this direction. So let's return to West Speer and continue on towards Speer. An interesting section where the two lanes merge into one and then immediately goes into a three-lane section. Interesting layout of tracks as we approach Speer Speer We now arrive at the place I was most curious to see along this section. Now I could of minded the absence of Track 3 if this whole section had been adapted. I feel like it was such a big missed opportunity to at least include this section around Speer and the whole Borie Cutoff, just as somewhere extra to go other than what's along the main route, along with providing an extra place for freight trains to start/stop. But even if it's not included, it still doesn't stop me from finding out what actually was developed out of this area, and so we arrive into Speer to find... ..absolutely nothing! All of the tracks have been laid out, but no buildings or anything like that, probably because it's very far away from the main route (I do know that there are some buildings around here, from having look on google maps). Section of track going over the BNSF route that has no bridge represented here. Also for those curious about it, I did check both ends of the BNSF line and I found that they just go to nowhere, which is surprising as I thought that the side going towards Cheyenne would have at least linked up with the line that crosses the bridge into Cheyenne, but apparently it doesn't. Maybe because it's not really relevant to the main route. Also, I did go down towards Gleason to see if I could find anything, it's just AI run-off so nothing to talk about there. Now let's get back onto the main Track 3 as we are nearly at the end now. Final part on next post...
Headings towards Cheyenne Chemical Plant This bit you see above is quite interesting. Apparently, there's suppose to be this big spiral yard around here. But it's appears that the tracks haven't been laid for it. But consider it's only be around since 2015/16, it may be the case this is an older representation of Sherman Hill, but I'll leave you decide that one for yourselves. The site of the Chemical Plant can only mean one thing. We have made it to the end. In the image above you, is where the invisible wall is located that separates Track 3 from the main route as we re-join it heading into Cheyenne. Now that's the end of Track 3, but not the end of this thread just yet, as there's one more thing I want to show you while I'm here BNSF Lines around Cheyenne Now while I had to ability to go and explore the outsides of this route, I decided to go and take a look at the BNSF lines that go into Cheyenne. These areas are not accessible and I don't think will ever be made accessible (as it's a completely different operator that runs on this section) but it's still interesting to explore none the less. View heading towards Cheyenne (If you want to know what's behind here, it's just AI runoff. This section isn't connect to the section going under the bridgeless part at Speer we saw earlier). A bridge heading over a highway, leading towards Cheyenne. Cheyenne Loop complex from a different perspective. Big old pond after crossing over the main running route. A pair of bridges located a stones throw from each other. We now arrive at the three way junction. View towards the main BNSF yard/Wendover, which is just represented as an AI runoff More views from around the three way junction which leads us nicely back to the main running route and the end of this adventure. So that concludes having a look at Track 3 on Sherman Hill and I have to say, I actually quite enjoyed doing this, seeing what it looks like and what would need to be done in order to bring it up to an accessible standard. Now the BNSF section I just probably won't ever be made accessible as it's run by an entirely different company (though I do appreciate the effort that was put into a section that wasn't going to be accessible anyways) but I think the whole of Track 3 between Dale Junction and Cheyenne via Harriman should be made accessible at some point, as it's one of the big things missing to truly complete this route, and would prove a path for heavier freight trains to take without having to go up the steeper main line. However, I do think a lot of work would be needed in order to make this part accessible as most of the section has no scenery places apart from around Emkay, which is located close to the main route. I know there's general not much scenery located along here any ways, but it's nowhere near the level of what the main route provides. Plus, you would also have to create the services for around this section. Which I mainly think would be made up of re-routing existing services to take this track rather than the main route you take at the moment (particularly the heavier freight trains), but a couple of new services (especially ones coming from Gleason into Speer) won't hurt too much I think. But whether we see this section ever become accessible in the future, only time will tell. But I don't expect it will happen any time soon. Image Source: https://www.trains.com/trn/railroad...g-the-transcontinental-railroad-sherman-hill/
Agree, needs still a lot of work. I get it there are dead lines and sherman hill as it is now, isnt a short route either. As somebody interessted in complete routes, i would pay for it if dtg decides to finish track 3 and include services. And i can immagine im not the only one.
You are talking about track 3, what about track 2 Everybody is talking about track 3, but there is still no track 2, maybe someone should look into getting track 2 made as well
Thank you for this extensive documentation, WonterRail. It does seem like a lot of work would be needed to get track 3 in the game, but here's hoping.
Tracks 1 & 2 are the main line which we run on, Im not aware of any other line in the area? Just tracks 1&2, then track 3 on a different route with an easier grade.
Honestly the main takeaway for me is it confirms my fears about it, the trackage might be there, but there's so much scenery that would need to be done. I don't see DTG doing 30 odd miles of trackage and a bunch of timetable services as a freebie with track 3 in the state it's in. There is a track heading from Speer that goes on to Track 1 & 2 to allow trains heading to and from Denver to use it. Not really a mainline per say, but it is a fairly major bit of trackage, and that was in the TS Classic version alongside Track 3.
As mentioned prior, the screenshots confirm this would need a serious amount of work. Still, it would bring a lot of gameplay with the possibility of super-heavy trains and siding usage. Would be great if we ever saw this part finished, maybe with improved auto-generation or new loco DLC for SMH with an extra layer.
New loco DLC is the way to go to my mind. However, it may be more in the Diesel Legends price class (and labeled something like expansion pack) due to the extensive scenery work and timetable re-working required. Time will tell.
SD70M would be great for loco's DLC on this route. Perhaps with UP's AC45CCTE, C45AH, SD70AH and SD70AH-T4
That was a pretty interesting read, thanks for yourefforts! But sad to see track 3 is in this state, probably we will never get it, which is a shame. It would be great to add more variety into the available gameplay.
I know someone on the TSC discord was working on trying to make these areas accessible, but not sure what happened with that work.
This is very much a different case from the Meißen branch in Dresden, which plainly was darn near finished before release- all those bespoke buildings represent a ton of work, which certainly wasn't done in the scant couple of weeks it was delayed.
Sherman Hill without the Harriman Cutoff is rather like BLM without the fast lines. It's simply incomplete and unrealistic. The heaviest westbound freights would almost always use it. If lack of time meant it couldn't be modeled for initial release, there is no good reason for not adding it now. I mean it's not an urban route with a boat load of structures. PS. While we're at it, let's complete the roster by adding the SW10 along with some switching activities.
A crying shame this remains unfinished. How nice it would be if DTG announced that SH will be completed at no extra cost, and would make a nice change from churning out another £25 route. Surely if just one scenery guy (or gal) was chained to a desk for a month or two could they not finish it? Okay a timetable guy would probably need to get involved too, to add the relevant services.
I can probably see track 3 being used by a DLC Locomotive heavy horsepower pack 6k hp Locomotives SD90MAC and GE AC6000CW. If both are coupled to each other train has 12k hp increases to 20.8k hp if SD90MAC AC6000CW SD70ACE and AC4400CW if Cane Creek was owned. To balance this out might as well make the Eastern Time Zone version CSX Heavy Horsepower pack Sand Patch Grade 11k hp combined AC6000CW 6k hp with SD80MAC 5k hp 15.4k hp if Helper was the AC4400CW or Reskinned ET44AC CSX version. If based from the Union Pacific ET44AC 3200s for Sherman Hill Track 3 DLC
That's a good DLC suggestion But i also wants SD70M Phase 2 (cmiiw), especially the one that had flared radiator like SD45, since UP have more than a 1000 of SD70M, Undoubtfuly SD70M's are true UPRR's work horses
Sherman is like a radioactive wasteland where only grass survives and no bird sings. All that work and it’s already been on sale. Shakes head sadly and stumbles off platform
Why on earth would DTG make track 3 a freebie? It is 30+ miles of route - easily justifiable as a stand-alone expansion pack. And after all the pleading for route extensions why not make this a first case, maybe with an additional loco or rolling stock.
Because it was also included in the TS version of the route. It's sad and ridiculous when the TSW version of a route has less content than the many years older TS release.
Is it? Development for TSW is vastly more expensive in developer time, which is why ALL TSW routes are shorter than their TS counterparts.
It is. Because sure, TSW content features more detail, you're right about that. But they also have many new tools that help in the development, like SimuGraph or basic scenery auto generation. Things that were hard and time consuming to do in TS is much easier in TSW. Hell, they can even go and simply buy scenery assets instead of having to model them themselves (which I'm pretty sure they do in some cases, as many assets differ in quality, style and the way they are made). I can imagine rolling stock building and making safety system being more difficult, due to the higher level of detail in the simulation, but route building should be easier, judging by what they've showed us from the editor in the past. And honestly, me as a consumer shouldn't be concerned about how hard it is to build content for the game. As a consumer, all I see is that the newer product has less content compared to the older product. If they need more time and money, so be it. Make development times longer and/or charge more for each DLC if needed. Personally I would be happy to wait or pay more if it means the content I get is more quality than what he have currently..
Simugraph adds hugely to complexity and time investment, compared to TS' black-box CLUTs. One reason why Rivet has had such a hard time making the jump to TSW: physics are just a lot harder to model than they were for Rivet's well-regarded TS locos.
I'm not having trouble if the 3rd Track (Harriman Cut) would be separate add-on for Sherman Hill DLC as long the add-on is well made and include new rolling stock and more engines. At least 2 or 3 more engine variety, it could be SD70M Phase 2 with SD45 flared radiator, C45AH (ET44AC-H), or maybe SD70AH-T4 (SD70ACe-H T4)
The best value is GP38-2 Tier 4 emissions followed by ET44AC Tier 4. Union Pacific Tier 4 GP38s are the 1000s ET44AC 2600s-3000s build date 2016 present meet tier 4. Can be reskinned to become a CSX 3200s ET44AC
The Tier 4 Gp38's are classified as GP22T4's, and are meant for California, it wouldn't make any sense to have them way out in Wyoming.
Thank you for telling me about this but I do have a feeling DTG will try making a California route that have them then layer it to Wyoming Sherman Hill. Example AC4400CW Utah Cane Creek appearing in Sherman Hill or Clinchfield SD40 in Sand Patch Grade.
Anyone else now wishing after seeing last nights expansion stream that the gameplay team found their way here for a line 3 sort out and gameplay…. Only downside being would I want to pay hmmm
Before you can think about the gameplay team, you need the route scenery team which is rather busy according to Matt.
Overall I think the gameplay team could a bunch more of these enhanced timetables like SKA is getting: - new services - add AI trains that diverge off route to make it busier - static scenery trains Slap 5 GBP price tag on it and I'm happy with it.
Yep, apart from the Köln Aachen timetable enhancement, the pack was pretty underwhelming. Very unlikely buy for me. So I agree that there was an opportunity there for an SH upgrade but unfortunately it’s just not part of the core TSW2 package. A separate T3 upgrade with timetable for £4.99 would definitely pique my interest though.
I want to come back here because I have made a remarkable discovery regarding this section... ...there is actually an AI service that uses this section!... Kinda... Seems wild doesn't it? But here me out on this one... If you have driven any of the eastbound coal trains on this route, you will probably know that instead of ending on the track directly outside the Cheyenne Depot Museum (The old train station there) they pull into the big yard and terminate there. Then the service leaves behind a set amount of coal cars in the yard, before heading out as AI towards Omaha. That rake of coal cars that are left behind are then shunted into a coal consists that get's bigger throughout the day as more coal cars are dropped off in the yard, until they evenually from a very long coal train (probably the longest of any coal train the runs on the route) which then gets taken away by SD70 quartet. The service in question starts at 17:30 (but has to wait until 17:43 before moving as the consist is still be prepared by the SD40-2's), makes it's way over to the consist, couples up and leaves with it at 17:54, before making it's way along Track 3 to Speer and then eventually out of the map down the Greeley Subdivison towards what would be Denver (which in this route, is just an AI runoff). While I wasn't able to ride/drive this service, I was able to get somes images of it as it makes it's way out of the map via this section, so without further ado, here they are. Service passing the invisible walls on it's way out. Chemical Plant in the background Pass where the big sprial yad should be (It hasn't been represented here). Arriving into Speer Wide shot of Speer. Crossing over the BNSF's Front Range Subdivision See aforementioned route heading off in the background into the distance We are now on the Greeley Subdivison We have made it to the AI runoff... ...and the end of the journey (almost instantly after taking this picture, the train disappeared, so good timing on my side). So that was an interesting service to find and one that come form the foundation of a potential drivable service if this area was to be opened up. As much as I feel that all the track 3 would bring is just rerouting some of the existing services to take Track 3, I also would be open to having services that join the route at Speer coming from the Greeley Subdivison, whether they simply just go to Cheyenne, whether they go down track 3, or whether they even join the main route we have now via the Borie Cutoff, there are alot of interesting that this section here has the potential to offer if it was to ever be opened up. Now... If only there was a way to make this service drivable to some extent, that would be fun!
