Luzern-Sursee is a double tracked, standard gauge, 23km long route in Switzerland, it's electrified at 15kV/16.67Hz. It's part of the north-south axis through the Gotthard, and is used by Regional and Long Distance traffic. Freight traffic is also prominent due to the high number of industrial sidings along the line. The trains that use this connection are mainly foreign stock coming from Italy, InterRegio push-pulls hauled by an RE460, and of course the S-Bahn and Regional services operated by the Flirt. -Wikipedia I decided to create this thread to discuss on the new route by Rivet games, I am personally really happy and excited to see a standard gauge route outside US/UK/GER, and while I can kind of see the why the lenght might be disappointing, IMO it's a reasonable "first step" into another country. The main talking points for me are: ETCS is present (this means that the route is set in recent times)* The RABe 523 (Stadler Flirt) is the only train available The route doesn't even extend to Olten, but stops at Sursee I'm curious to see your opinion on the matter, I will leave my take here: -Trains, TBH I was expecting a reskinned TRAXX in SBB colours, since wikipedia says this route is a busy freight corridor, from the photos we can see a quad-tracked scene, I will look for some cab rides, but I don't want this route to become a sort of Köln-Düren S-Bahn without any express traffic. -ETCS: It had to come at some point, and I think at a basic level it shouldn't bee too hard to implement, it's kind of similar to LZB but even "simpler". The main point is, this system is not too far away from a blend of ATC and ACSES, will it have the same problems? Or will it work flawlessly like TVM and LZB? And how in-depth will it go, IRL ETCS L2 can give the driver a lot of information, not sure if/how much it will be simplified.* [As of 08/02/22 this thread is based solely on this article as a source of information] [10/02/22] Apparently there is a possible conflict related to ETCS, since the route is only equipped with ETCS L1, apparently not usable by the Flirts. [15/02/22] A video showcasing the RABe 523 was released, if anyone wishes to skip directly to that part of the discussion use this quoted post.
About 25-30km. According to Google, it takes 20-30 minutes to do the route depending on which type of service you're doing.
Actually it was quite inconsiderate from my part to not have an introduction with some route stats, I'll amend that ASAP
It is an interesting question, without a public answer that I know of, whether third party developers can use DTG loco models like the 185 on their own routes
I think if it were to go further, they'd have gone towards Baar on the S-Bahn. Is there potential layering from DB/MRCE/Railpool? Cane Creek locos? West Cornwall 37? All Dovetail models, albeit modified slightly.
Well those models should be modified for ETCS, considering how well making LZB work on the old TRAXXes went, I assume it's not a straight forward process, but I expected at least one SBB model to be included.
There may be a licensing matter: the S-Bahn is operated by Verkehrsverbund Luzern, not SBB. Still, MRCE or Railpool freight wouldn't have that problem (we'll just pretend to ignore the DB markings on the wagons...)
Train modelling is good, as always with Rivet, never complained about that. Potential issues: train physics, timetable issues, scenery issues. Route is definitely too short.
We have a trend of the last two routes made by Rivet which both have trains with wrong physics (Arosa and Cornwall). I sincerely hope they sorted these problems out.
But it also has the SBB Logos; it’s about like the “Verkehrsverbund-Rhein-Ruhr” on e.g. RRO. I think the bigger problem is that SBB Cargo is somehow split from the “normal” SBB… But I think the reason it isn’t implemented is that they would have to edit the other TRAXX. But maybe we will get an Vectron Add-on with the SBB Vectron?
What do you mean if? This route will feel very empty. Why did they pick such a busy line only to include just one train? FD1003 Why do you call it a first step? This certainly isn't Rivet's first Swiss route. They've been making them for years in TS and we already have Arosa in TSW2.
Not the MRCE 185.5, which has already Swiss current and pantographs (try it- you can select them in the MFD). It should be able to run as-is.
With the short length, I guess the biggest question is: how interesting it is to drive? How does it compare to Arosa in gradients/scenery (yes, the scenery in Arosa could have been better, but it's still a change of pace from other TSW routes).
Thats true, right now the s18 seems to be made, which continues as s1 to baar. So the trains should disappear through a portal. Today the entire line from baar to sursee is s1. I guess thats the reason rivet choose the timetable from 2010 - 2012.
Well I said "if" because you never know. They can get the physics right. But given their track record in tsw2, it's probably best to brace for the worst
I think overall the route is so widely different it's not unreasonable to think of Arosa and Luzern as two "different countries", similarly to how technically TVL and BML are in the same country, but practically they probabily have very little in common in terms of assets, safety systems, signalling and trains. In this particularly case I can see some assets being reused from Arosa (maybe some houses, or small infrastructure), but the bulk of the route has not much to do with Arosa or any other RhB lines. There is less to mess up with a modern EMU, I definitely do not expect a TSG add-on, not even remotely close, but surely it's impossible to make it as bad as the Class 150/BR204 simply due to the nature of the train.
Too short, too modern, just one train type, relatively obscure compared to some of the iconic Swiss routes (or portion thereof) they could have made. More of an essay than a novel. Not much interest here then, sorry.
Besides I'm not really interested in such a short route with one Train-Type and nothing really going on their I hope at least Rivet this time made their homework, shouldn't be such a big problem to provide a correct timetable for such a short route.
As always wait till the preview streams are out. Then your complaints will have more validity. There are no experience points for “I told you so”. Thanks to the OP for his informative post on a route I know nothing of.
If this route is going to be any good, at least I hope there will be chance for a future train DLC ...
Is this a full actual route based on the real-world version, or we are getting half a route again? Also how accurate is the loco compared to the real one? How many of you are going to purchase it on the release date?
In this video you can see the route on board from 2:41:00. It is a non-stop train from Sursee and takes only 19 minutes to complete: With stops it can be 10-15 minutes more maybe? It is an extremely short, one-train journey, with no freight services, which does not seem to me to offer anything really interesting or new.
Ok where are you getting that the Flirt is the only trainset included. I mean it might be the only one, but until its confirmed that this is the case, I'll be keeping an open mind. Afterall it wouldnt be the 1st time a DLC is announced and then at a future date prior to release a 2nd loco is included. For me the jury is still out on this one, is it too short? Perhaps but if the scenary is well made and the train is good to drive then I'll find a home for it in my collection Im sure.
Have you ever considered actually reading other comments in a thread before commenting? Had you done so then you would have known that at the time the route is based yes we are getting a full route. As for how accurate the loco is, well I mean Im sure if there was a major glaring error like the wrong window or door layout yeah that would get picked up really quickly and people would be pointing that out, but other than from the few screenshots we got, its really hard to gleam how accurate it is. As for your final question, anyone who has made up their mind based on 4 images of a route and half a dozen sentences would either buy virtually anything DTG put out, will buy it because its a local or much route in real life for them, or rarely buy anything on day 1. For the rest of us, I think most people would like a bit more info and screenshots and perhaps a preview stream before deciding if this will be a day1 purchase for them
This really helped me understand the route. Thank you. I don't think the route length is really a problem, since there are lots of different buildings and scenery to model. If they spent enough time on this I think it is OK in that respect as there will be more than enough things to look at. My main point of concern is that, as you said, I think the route will feel empty with just one train. I remember how empty Cathcart felt, and Lucerne is much bigger.
Sorry if I've missed something, but where's everyone got the idea that it's been backdated about 10 years?
Well, the assumption is that until there are more informations, the only content coming with the DLC is what is mentioned in the relevant articles or roadmap. I don't personally remember new trains being added after an official reveal, just more services using an already existing train or layers, but maybe I am mistaken. If there are changes I will happily edit my post, for now I will make it clear that this thread is based on this article: https://live.dovetailgames.com/live/train-sim-world/articles/article/luzern-sursee-first-screens
yes I did, but I don't see anything mentioning its a full route, but anyhow thanks for answering my question
How about literally the last release? Tharandter Ramp Dresden Chemintz - Railpool BT185 aded after initial announcement. It was almost on release that it was announced and had Matt not let it slip out in a stream would have been a complete shock. Dresden Riesa - BR363 added well after announcement, this could have been announced in a preview stream for the route. Cornwall Local - Class 37 added following a feedback by the community. I'm sure these aren't the only 3 which you personally don't remember being added.
I did edit my post to be more clear, but not soon enough to avoid you responding to the original version, sorry - already existing trains added, yes, trains requiring modifications to be added, like an ETCS-fitted traxx would, no. The BR186.6 was in development for some time, and it was a question of when to release it, not "let's make a loco for DCZ" - in fact it's not even correct for 2012. At least that's what I understood from Matt's comment on the DCZ preview stream. About Riesa, you mean the 363? Already existing train, just reskinned Class 37 - same as the 363. Anyway I can't predict the future, I don't know what it's going to happen, so for my post I just stuck with already available information.
Hardly any DLC has more than 1 new loco in it and the 2nd is often a rework of an existing loco (not just a reskin FYI) but you do you and your backtracking. I'm not in the mood for the likes of you tonight
You see that in the map you posted. The S18 in this case is what we get back in 2013. Today The S1 from Baar goes to Luzern up to Sursee as one line.
Yes, I'm sorry you are right on the backtracking, I should just wait before posting, instead of posting and then editing, as it will look bad - that's entirely my fault, apologies. In name of fairness I will adjust back my original comment about the Traxx to the unedited state. About reworked instead of reskinned/reused I disagree. Ruhr Sieg Nord: BR143 and 185 (both new) MSB: BR146 (new), BR185.2(same as RSN but with Railpool writing) RRO: BR422 (new), BR185.5 (reworked) HRR: BR425 (new), BR423 BR422 (same as RRO).
Looking at the S Bahn route map above, Sursee is the break point between the S18 from Luzern and the S8 from Olten. Through trains would run the entire length between Luzern and Olten but the S Bahn does not seem too. I think this is like the Metro North route we are getting where they stopped it where the service they are modeling stops.
I can't believe they have let Rivet develop the ETCS by themselves. I am hoping that DTG worked closely with them on this aspect so DTG has a working version it can put on its own routes where applicable. Normally I would expect these elements to appear first on a DTG product and then they can share the files and codes with 3rd parties when they want to make a route using it. Imagine if that didn't happen and the next route DTG wants it on it has to start from scratch? Seems unlikely. Equally imagine if the implementation of it varied markedly between DTG and Rivet routes. I guess I am hoping for an interesting story about this tonight.
Class 37 Cornwall V Class 37 TVL Do I really need to spell out the differences between the 2 and why the latter isnt just a reskin of the original? Would you like me to continue?
FD1003 look you are entitled to your opinion just like the rest of us. Just please don't make your opinion out to be a fact unless you've got facts to back it. Peace out
Sigh, no... although I think modifying a 3d model could be easier than adding ETCS to the TRAXX, but I honestly wouldn't know and don't want to make this kind of claims. Anyway, you win, as I said already it's possible for that to happen, but I was wrong in saying there is no precedent for such thing. As soon as it's officially confirmed I will update my original post.
I think some of the preservation team is working with them from the last time i heard on the stream from adam but i am not sure.
