Train Sim World 2 - First Look Metro Norths Harlem Line

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Natster, Mar 2, 2022.

  1. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    I agree with every word you say.
     
  2. Sparmi

    Sparmi Well-Known Member

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    Finally Manhattan got an impressive skyline and looks like New York City! At LIRR the skyline went under a bit, especially on 8th gen consoles due to the small drawing distance and a lot of missing buildings. Also the M3 trains are back again.
    Let's see if it can compete with Switzerland! ;)
     
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  3. Coastway trainspotter

    Coastway trainspotter Well-Known Member

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    Probably not . This will be the new lirr , and the old one will just be left in the past I fear
     
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  4. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I think we won't be seeing a Hudson line anytime soon. I wouldn't count out the possibility though. It would be a nice addition to the game. If they could model the Manhattan skyline well, then I think they can model the hudson river very well also. Perhaps it can go to Poughkeppsie and we would get the full line since they wouldn't have to remake the Manhattan skyline again since they already have the assets
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
  5. praxidike.meng

    praxidike.meng Well-Known Member

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    Hearing people local to this route praise the scenery is indeed a promising sign. It seems a little short for my taste, but on the other hand I do enjoy shorter runs, which are convenient if one is short on time (especially during working week). As always, I hope they got the sounds sorted.
     
  6. mdiaz0880

    mdiaz0880 New Member

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    First impressions are excellent! Most of the main things that I was looking for was inside of the cab of the M7a. I am very impressed with the level of detail in the cab. For example, the new cab signalling Aspect Display Unit (ADU) with PTC. The old style ADU only showed the N, L, M, and R. The new style has the N, 60, L, M, R, and S. It also has PTC capability and from the first look photos, the Track Speed indicator actually works, which is a big upgrade from the LIRR DLC. Something that I was not expecting Dovetail to do is add the station information to the Operating Screen, which shows what station you are at, which station is next, and the destination station. This is a nice added feature that will make the route a little easier to know if you are someone like me who always turns the HUD off for a better experience. A very minor detail that is also worth mentioning is that the train number on the Operating Screen is changed from the number of the train car to the route number. Also, if I look close enough, it looks like the numbers of the trains are actually set in pairs. For example, car 4001 would be coupled with car 4002. This is also something that was missing from the LIRR DLC.

    Something that I thought was very cool that they added to the exterior is the destination display boards. This makes me wonder if they will add functioning information display boards to the interior as well, which would be another cool detail.

    As far as scenery goes, the images that Dovetail included are very nice. As someone who has grown up riding the Harlem Line into Grand Central and living right next to it, the images look pretty accurate. It will be interesting to see some of the other scenery throughout the route. It will also be interesting to see how much of Grand Central is accessible. For example, if we can use the lower-level tracks, or how much we can walk around the train station. I can even see the 45th and 47th Street cross-passageways possibly being accessible to walk to get between platforms when on the north end of the platforms, instead of walking to the south end of the platform. The article also talks about running services to and from Yankees E-153rd St. (Yankee Stadium), which is a nice addition if you want to run special game-day services. A detail also worth mentioning is the Hartsdale station. In between the platforms are the metal men working. You can see it here in the M7a cab image if you look very closely. You can also see the photo enlarged by clicking this link.
    [​IMG]

    As I mentioned at the beginning, first impressions are excellent. All of my detailed visual observations were made from the photos that Dovetail provided in the first look article. However, one thing that I am very disappointed with, along with many others, is the overall length of the route. Dovetail made the route only extend as far as North White Plains. In reality, the Harlem Line runs all the way to Wassaic, but the electric trains run as far as the Southeast station. I am really hoping that they extend the line to Southeast in a DLC update in the future to complete the experience of the Harlem Line. I would also like to see the GE P32 AC-DM (Genesis) Locomotive added in the future. This is not a complaint, but something that would be cool to add to the route for a better experience.

    These are my first impressions of the route and I am very excited to see what comes next for the Harlem Line DLC!
     
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  7. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    The modeling looks very good, although the NY skyline looks a bit underwhelming. All we're really seeing so far are the M7a and M3a which look very good at first glance. But I don't see any evidence of " rush hour " - AI traffic, passengers, road traffic etc. I know it's early days and all the screenshots are WIP, so let's wait and see. There are still lots of unknowns - lighting and sound, for instance. Time will tell. So far, so good. Sorta.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
  8. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

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    Ambient sounds seem to be very good in recent DTG releases. For example, just stand around on Sherman Hill in the middle of nowhere and it will sound brilliant. Same goes for Boston Sprinter, the city ambience is good, and even the along the route, where you usually just drive past at speed, you can hear many ambient sounds. So I have my hopes about them being good here as well.
     
  9. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    There’s a bridge that lifts on tees valley

    In regards to this route, why is everything so clean? It’s not a Disney cartoon.
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
  10. 5cip

    5cip Active Member

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    i cant wait for release looks good hope its not to far away
     
  11. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    All the screenshots so far are of the northern part of the route; closer to Midtown is where you get the "concrete canyons". Of course, the route actually goes under a big chunk of Midtown via the Park Ave Tunnel
     
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  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well the only other traffic that can be added is Hudson line trains really. I wouldn't be surprised if there are no new haven line trains since there is no M8 train
     
  13. bdlaplaca

    bdlaplaca Member

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    The area the route runs through in Manhatten is from about 96th street and above which is the Upper East Side and Harlem. You mostly see 6 story brownstones or 10-12 story apartment buildings along this part of the route. The real tall skyscrapers begin around 57th street so we should see them in the distance but not right up against the track.
     
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  14. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    The PIS works its just really hard to see. Hopefully they can make it a little brighter.
     

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  15. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Well, from Grand Central to around 57th the line runs in an open trench below street level, and the part of that just north of GCT is really, really wide, so the sightlines shouldn't be bad.
     
  16. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Well, I'm assuming that, since this is a commuter line, it will get the " Rush Hour " treatment. Better get busy and add some " Boston " style passengers and " BML " style AI traffic.
     
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  17. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    This looks amazing! Lots of attention to detail. I see that others have noticed the same thing that I noticed. I will definitely be picking this up.
     
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  18. Thelonius16

    Thelonius16 Well-Known Member

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    That trench has been covered for at least 100 years.
     
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  19. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Looking really good! Can't wait to get a Metro-North route. With the attention to detail I'm seeing in the screenshots I wouldn't be surprised if they modeled these dudes at the top of the platform shelters at Scarsdale :)
    [​IMG]
     
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  20. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Yeah it's a shame that there aren't M8s but I can see why they wouldn't bother because it isn't worth putting a bunch of time and effort into modelling a train that probably wouldn't be driveable.
     
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  21. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    Hey you never know they can do what they did with the brighton mainline. Add the other part of the route. They can keep the part from Grand Central to Woodlawn then add the New Haven part.
     
  22. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    What i am looking for is the train sound, engine, guard bell, horn, track sound when train go through curve, bridge, junction, track, the transition of train sound when going in to tunnel and coming out of the tunnel, and city life sound and last grand central terminal ambient in terms of the sound of ceiling fans at the grand central terminal

    Heres a good clip of audio representation of train track noise such as screeching, switching on to another junction track as well as the clickety clack sound, along with horn
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2022
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  23. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    imagine they put it as a static ai train right now where we still see it running even though we can't drive the route. :D
     
  24. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    These trains don't have bells.
     
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  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The metro north harlem line wouldn't be as busy as London commuter. I think that would be a unrealistic expectation. We will probably have Hudson Line AI Traffic from grand central to 125th street though
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
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  26. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That trench you speak of has been covered for 100 years. I wouldn't expect dtg to model all of the buildings that are on park avenue (millionaires row) when your running in the park ave tunnel. You wouldn't be able to see anything. There are ventilation shafts though that are on the express tracks and you can see a building or two but other than that don't expect to see a fully modelled Park avenue when underground
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
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  27. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    M8 needs TS22 NEC New York New Haven remade for TSW 2. M8 is the US equivalent to the Class 387/2 BML AWS TPWS DSD Germany 490 & 474.3 PZB Sifa ETCS the European Positive Train Control. These use 3rd rail 750-1.2kv DC overhead wires 11kv-25kv 60hz AC that includes the 16.7hz DB OBB SBB CFF FFS system.
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    And what part of the 74 Mile long New Haven line would you want modeled?
     
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  29. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    You mean DB BR429 the Stadler Flirt which is the German Designation for an SBB CFF FFS Rabe 521 or 523. Rabe 523 lacks the required 1.95m Pantographs for DB & OBB networks because of the standard Swiss 1.45m losing power on DB & OBB tracks. Both routes have Positive Train Control systems activated
     
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  30. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Wouldn't really make sense because they would effectively have to model a train that isn't in the game which takes time
     
  31. ehz0689

    ehz0689 Well-Known Member

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    Is Yankee Stadium one of the stations
     
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  32. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    Yes
     
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  33. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It's official name is Yankees-East 153rd Street although funny enough one of the main entrances and exits that lead directly to Yankee stadium takes you to East 161 Street. The MTA shoud've named the station Yankess-East 161 Street in my opinion
     
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  34. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    You mean these on the top of the M7A
    [​IMG]
     
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  35. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

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    That is what I was referring to because if they just proceeded with straight up Reskinning LIRR M7 to make M7A for Harlem Line they just broke immersion down. Because Long Island Railroad M7 lack those vents.
     
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  36. LimitedEdiition

    LimitedEdiition Well-Known Member

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    The screenshots look better than I would expect, but there are some pretty significant discrepancies which I hope can be rectified before release. The Manhattan skyline is missing the iconic MetLife building, which is a pretty glaring omission. I'm not expecting the MetLife logo on it because they probably can't do that because of copyright reasons (although they did have the Phillips branding on Hamburg Hbf), but the building does look unique and should definitely be represented rather than a generic office building. Maybe it's obscured by the buildings in the background, only the stream will tell, but if it is missing, then it should definitely be included. Another structure is the tall residential building you can see in the included picture on the right. This one is pretty obvious, and some questions have to be asked why it wasn't included. We're not looking for perfection, but a structure like that should definitely be included, even if represented by a generic skyscraper building.


    Some more nitpicky stuff is the tracks on the elevated structure in Manhattan. They shouldn't be typical ballast, but a concrete type structure. What's interesting is that this was represented in TS1's New Haven Line, so I'm not sure why they decided to just skip this altogether. Maybe they could have reskinned the tracks on Southeastern High Speed's St Pancras Station to a brown color and just replaced the 3rd rail and called it a day, or maybe even just import the TS1 asset. Not sure why something like this was missed considering it was already done, but hopefully this can be changed before release.

    (Not my screenshots)
    comparison.png
    metlife.png
    MN-06.jpg
     
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  37. SubwayRailfanner

    SubwayRailfanner Well-Known Member

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    They are similar but there are some differences between the two. They are the same train after all.
     
  38. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The vents are there.
    TSW2_Harlem_Line_Watermarked_Screenshots_3.jpg
    TSW2_Harlem_Line_Article_1920x1080.jpg
     
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  39. Random Railfan

    Random Railfan Well-Known Member

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    Don't worry, they're modelled Screenshot (1060)_LI.jpg
     
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  40. Joethefish

    Joethefish Staff Member

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    The image shown on the article is a little further towards GCT than the two reference images from IRL and TS1. The tracks change to ballast towards GCT and you can see this here on google maps: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.7962417,-73.9456792,50a,35y,200.41h,67.23t/data=!3m1!1e3.

    The change to track corresponds with the supports changing from metal to brick/blocks which you can see using street view. Both New Haven and Hudson Lines on TS1 represent the change from ballast to metal tracks.

    You can see in this image at Harlem 125th that the tracks are indeed more like what you're expecting. :)
    [​IMG]
     
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  41. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, you make a good point there, the met life building is not in the distance in term of the building, it seems the team is having a problem trying to replicate the real-life building. I don't know if the team is aware of this, but I also hope that they will get the NYC city skyline building correct as well.

    Hopefully, they still have time to fix these small problems, such as the building and the Passenger information system in the station as well, cause from the picture it looks like they still have not updated to the Blue and white color Background LED PIS.

    TrainSim-Matt Is it possible you can ask the team to fix these errors such as the PIS on Platform, and the city skyscraper to the iconic city skyscraper, or it's too late to ask them to fix this?

    Here is how the current PIS system on the Platform looks like on the Harlem Line. Below is a picture of M7A at White Plains
    [​IMG]2,622 × 1,940

    This is how the NYC Skyview Should Look Like in the Backdrop. Below is a picture of M7A Approaching Harlem 125th St.
    [​IMG]2,464 × 1,632

    Heres Another Picture of the Update Color PIS On Station Platform
    [​IMG]

    Heres another good close up the NYC Iconic City Sky Building
    [​IMG]800 × 524
     
    Last edited: Mar 2, 2022
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  42. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

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    Better close up picture of NYC Iconic Skyline Building
    [​IMG]1,500 × 1,500
     
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  43. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    It's faint in this screenshot, but the PIS screens are working.
    Screenshot_20220302-191029_Gallery.png
     
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  44. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I hope the pis in the stations isn't modelled incorrectly and them only using the inaccurate pis from lirr. There's no excuse since there were ways for them to get reference for the pis
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2022
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  45. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    Good observation! Though it's not quite what you might think. In reality it seems that part of the viaduct is indeed covered with ballast, while the rest of it lacks it. You can see this difference around 110th Street using satellite images.

    You can also see this difference in this video:

    The ballast stops at around 6:25, again, roughly at the same spot I mentioned above. North of 110th Street you get that iconic reddish/brown/iron viaduct.

    [​IMG]
    If you take a look at the screenshots, the one posted above looks to me as though it was taken maybe around 106th Street, where there actually is some ballast.

    [​IMG]
    Although it's difficult to make out, this shot at Harlem 125th, does seem to have that ballast-less track.

    TLDR: It looks to me as though DTG actually did in fact get this detail correct

    Edit: Oh shoot, I didn't realize Joe already beat me to it :D
     
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  46. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    This is amazing news :D, I am so glad to see the Work In Progress screenshots of the upcoming Harlem Line. I am hopeful this will be a great quality route, despite the section that is being created. From the screen shots shown, the details are on par with the Harlem Line in real life. At the end of the day, it is better than nothing and I am happy to see the Harlem Line in TSW. The Manhattan Skyline appears to be accurate and the trestles at Harlem-125th street, the stone masonry viaduct which is the section of track from the 97th street tunnel to 111th street is accurate. The Park Avenue Lift Bridge and Woodlawn Junction look promising. The M3A and M7A EMU's look exactly as how they do in real life and from the screenshots, I can spot working side destination signs on the M7A EMU. Another great feature is the in cab security cameras. The attention to detail that I see so far is amazing, and is definitely an upgrade from the LIRR route. As the highrise in the screenshot taken in Mott Haven is featured, the time frame for the route appears to be recreated between 2017-2022. I have a feeling we will get working PIS and Totems as this has been featured in recent passenger routes for TSW. It is also good to see a small portion of the Hudson line featured. If Highbridge Yard is featured, as it is a few blocks north west of Yankees East 153rd St, this will be amazing. I have a feeling with this spur of the railroad featured, there is potential for a future Hudson Line DLC for TSW from Grand Central - Croton Harmon, as the M3A and M7A's both serve the Hudson Line as well. It will also be great to see the Metro North Shoreliners and P32AC-DM locomotive as a potential future add on which will add to the combination of services and train traffic in and out of Grand Central Terminal, or even the GP35R and BL20GHM for scenarios where there are equipment failures with the EMU's.
     
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  47. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, as the 4,B and D subway train have that station name. I believe it was named as East 153rd Street since the station is a few blocks southwest of the 161st street subway station.
     
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  48. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    Most definitely, the changeover for the wooden ties on the stone masonry from 97th st to 111th st, and the tracks on the elevated viaduct on the 125th street appears to be created correctly. The advancements that DTG have made with this route are really good. As I usually commute on the Metro North in the city, DTG did very well with the detail
     
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  49. malikrthr

    malikrthr Well-Known Member

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    From what I can tell, the M7A appears to be built from scratch. While the body overall looks almost identical, the M7A appears to be higher quality than the M7 that was developed for the LIRR
     
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  50. Hiro Protagonist

    Hiro Protagonist Well-Known Member

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    There is a hell of a lot of foreshortening in those photos (due to the telephoto lens), whilst the Metlife Building looks reasonably close it's actually 50 blocks away from where the Park Ave tunnel ends, which is roughly 2.5 miles (and from the Harlem 125th St shot it's closer to 4 miles). It's doubtful that you'll be able to see them in-game unless the skybox is deliberately altered through forced perspective.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2022
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