Luzern - Sursee Completely Dark

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by dreampage, Mar 19, 2022.

Tags:
  1. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    928
    I watched the preview stream yesterday and noticed that the whole Luzern-Sursee route is very dark from inside the cab. Why is that? It always felt like driving at night even at daytime, the cab is completely dark at all times as well. Here are two screens grabbed from the stream to demonstrate what I mean.

    Here's a snippet from an outside camera. You can see it's daytime, the sun is shining, foliage and buildings are lit properly as well.

    luzern1.jpg

    Now, a few moments later Matt switched to the cab view and it looked like this.

    luzern2.jpg

    Notice how dark it all is. You can see it's daytime because the sky is relatively bright, but the cab is in complete darkness as well as the whole scenery. You can only see silhouette of buildings and trees. There's no colour, no proper lighting, everything is just dark. The whole stream went like this, there was not a run where you could properly see the scenery ahead.

    Is this a technical issue or because the train has some darkening windshields? Either way I don't like how it looks, there's the beautiful Swiss scenery and you can barely see anything from the cab. It's somehow off-putting.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  2. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    928
    Another example.

    Outside:

    luzern3.jpg

    Inside:

    luzern4.jpg

    Look at the difference in scenery and foliage, the treeline for example.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 23, 2020
    Messages:
    541
    Likes Received:
    964
    Given how dark the cab is it looks more like a general setting issue with the camera / first person view perspective than a darkening windshield. It looks like every area of the screen is affected exactly the same amount. So hopefully it's just some UE command or something in that direction...
     
  4. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,675
    Does it have window tint?
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Oystein

    Oystein Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2018
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    274
    Most likely window tint but if it isn't that it can be eye adaptation/auto exposure if that is enabled in TSW.
     
  6. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    I think the phase "completely dark" is a tad over reacting, but yeah inside the cab did appear a little to dark even accounting for tinted windows (which the Flirt has).
     
    • Like Like x 5
  7. mldaureol2

    mldaureol2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2019
    Messages:
    205
    Likes Received:
    266
    Hi,
    Matt alluded to this in the stream.
    Apparently it is the window tint level setting being set too high by Rivet.
    Hopefully it gets sorted.
    Mike.
     
  8. Oystein

    Oystein Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2018
    Messages:
    180
    Likes Received:
    274
    It isn't far from completely dark. This is daytime, sky is blue and bright but ground is very dark. Looks terrible, and it has been a problem in TSW since day 1. In the stream they explained that this is "a dark scenario" :D
    firefox_J4LPe0Ffj4.jpg
     
    • Like Like x 3
  9. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,918
    Likes Received:
    23,934
    This is an ongoing thing with most TSW2 routes. I posted an example a few weeks ago of GWE in supposedly sunny daytime and the track was barely visible. One of the German routes overcast conditions again was like driving at night. I have tweaked my monitor settings as much as I can, without frying my retinas when looking at anything on a white background. Other games do not display this tendency. Ergo there is something fundamentally off with the core graphics engine as implemented and which we have very little in game options to play around with and adjust (such as gamma). The unofficial ini mods can only do so much and it shouldn't be up to third parties to fix the game shortcomings.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. Tigert1966

    Tigert1966 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 18, 2020
    Messages:
    1,599
    Likes Received:
    2,650
    It’s definitely too dark. But part of it could be the Stream setting. I always find Matt’s streams look darker than they actually turn out to be.

    Doesn’t account for all the difference though. The difference between inside and outside looked a bit too much.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    1,638
    Jasper did say the windows were tinted, but I’d like an option to reduce it, regardless if it’s authentic or not.
    That said I enjoyed the preview.
    Rivet are obviously learning from past mistakes and appear to have done a presentable job.
    I’ll definitely buy this in preference to the Harlem line.
    Prefer the scenery.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  12. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    928
    The window tint may be an explanation but then it's not applied properly. The sky remains almost as bright as in the external view, but everything else darkens significantly. It's just off. I wish there was no darkening effect at all, or there was an option to disable it.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  13. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    8,665
    Yeah, that's something I've noticed way back on their first preview video as well. Looks very bad, to be honest.

    As said above, it could be eye adaptation going wrong, like on Sherman Hill. Except in Sherman Hill the ouside becomes extremely bright, while here is becomes dark.
    Or if it's really just window tint, then that's very strong window tint. I beleive some other trains have this effect in TSW2 as well, especially ones that have slanted windshields. Might be a combination of window tint + slanted windshield effect.

    Anyway hope that gets sorted out, as currently it looks like something that would annoy the heck out of me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,701
    Likes Received:
    4,370
    Yeah, imo the ICE 3 suffers from the same problems. I know tinting is kinda realistic for modern EMUs, but it's not necessary for a simulation.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    6,475
    Likes Received:
    17,339
    There should be no window tint applied in TSW even if it is there in real life. It ruins the driving experience and makes nighttime driving a proper turn off. There just isn’t the same dynamic range in the game’s lighting as there is in real life where a tinted windscreen will aid the driver. This was one of the reasons I turned the stream off. It’s a shame because the route looks really nice. I also noticed that the headlights didn’t appear to light anything up.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  16. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,701
    Likes Received:
    4,370
    They don't do that in reality tho :D
     
    • Like Like x 2
  17. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    928
    I fully intend to buy this route next week but not in this state, honestly. Part of what really attracts me to Switzerland is the scenery, and the added variation to TSW 2 (finally not the usual three countries). I also love modern trains and this one actually operates in my country as well, I have travelled on it, so it would be extra fun to drive it as well. However, if it's constantly this dark in the cab and I can't enjoy the scenery while driving then there's much less point. I wish the sights were the same from the cab as they are in external view. The more I watch the stream the more strongly I feel this.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  18. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 12, 2019
    Messages:
    2,059
    Likes Received:
    1,778
    Agree with the darkness inside the cab. Not sure how realistic this route is, but it looks better than their shambolic West Cornwall effort, but not in the same class as the wonderful new DTG Harlem Line.
     
  19. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    I disagree. It adds to the immersion of having window tint as most trains in reality do have tinted windows. The problem seems to be that there is tint inside of the train which isn't realistic. If they were to figure out a way to not have tint inside of the train but outside only, then having tinted windows would be fine
     
    • Like Like x 4
  20. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    1,638
    Agree with StuJoy.
    Authenticity here is meaningless given the limitations of the software and our screens.

    Please consider fixing this DTG.
    There were times when I was squinting to see details through the window in bright sunlight.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  21. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,529
    Likes Received:
    10,147
    That's rather worrying. Having rejected Harlem as an immediate purchase for various reasons, I intended to buy this route next week.
    On the other hand I've found that the preview streams rarely do justice to upcoming routes. They always look better and run smoother when I run them on my own hardware. I'll probably chance it.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  22. gogglesguy

    gogglesguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    578
    I'm always amazed by the reaction from DTG & Rivet on stream as if this is the first time they noticed this. There seems a bit of a disconnect between people modelling the environment (from their fancy outside camera) and the people modelling the train. As said earlier here, this hardly the first route that shows this issue, but the darkening seems very noticeable here. And it's not just the darkening, but the almost monochromatic effect that gets applied.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  23. gogglesguy

    gogglesguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    578
    In general, I find the darks in the TSW way too dark, and I wish the game came with some basic controls to adjust contrast, brightness and shadow tones.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
  24. gogglesguy

    gogglesguy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2020
    Messages:
    268
    Likes Received:
    578
    Also, what's up with the weird station lighting. Where does the light emit from? And why is the spread so weirdly limited?
     

    Attached Files:

  25. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    I cannot twist my head round paying £25 for a short 9 station trot. It’s 3 for 3 on failed dlcs for me now not getting bought. That’s £59 not spent
     
    • Like Like x 5
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  26. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    I will buy the route mainly for showing support towards doing more SBB-CFF-FFS routes, voting with your wallet is not only done by not buying things.

    To be completely honest I don't mind the dark look. It's not good, but it's not one of these things I'm bothered about TBH, but I will say that I'm siding with people that would like it reduced or removed.

    I'm more worried about always stopping behind a red light and the fact that Jasper didn't want to commit saying that this route will ever be fixed/improved.

    I'd recommend pointing to this thread over to the Rivet Games Forum, as Jasper himself said he doesn't monitor this forum too closely.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  27. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    Well this is £20 or £18 if pre-ordered. I probably would have left it on the shelf at £25 but for £18 I think it's worth a punt.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  28. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,918
    Likes Received:
    23,934
    Think I will wait until it's going for a bargain in a sale, at least 50% off.
     
  29. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    6,475
    Likes Received:
    17,339
    I can’t believe they are still doing this. If the light from two individual lamp posts doesn’t meet to create a full lighting coverage, they can easily stick another one (or two in this case) in between to fill the gap, and making sure the lamp textures are on to match wouldn’t be a bad idea either. This issue wouldn’t stop me buying a route but it just looks awful. Another reason not to drive at night.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  30. PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix

    PegasusLeosRailwayFanatix Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 7, 2020
    Messages:
    1,473
    Likes Received:
    1,010
    Same go with the Harlem line on stream because like you said could be Matt's computer.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  31. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    fair play, I assumed £25. My concern is even with another loco chucked in, it’s 14miles. I did that in about 17 min in car today on the A1.

    I held off Cathcart one train wonder for ages, succumbed when cheap and I think I’ve done one scenario abode two services. Routes like that are nothing more than a screensaver to me over a longer route with variety in service.

    I think Rivet have done a good job with train and route scenery and I’m sure many will be enjoyed. I just see as a waste of cash to my own personal factors of route enjoyment.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  32. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,918
    Likes Received:
    23,934
    Is it really that short? Yegods, did they give it to the intern to do as a practice exercise, or something?
    A route that long with one train should be going for £9.99, tops.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  33. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    Jasper said 25km or 14mile on stream. To me that’s a game demo not a game dlc. It looks nice but tastes bad seeing as £20-25 got me 60miles on Sherman, 49 on Brighton etc, 43 on WCR, all of which has more services and features
     
    • Like Like x 4
  34. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    8,665
    Well yes, currently from the outside it looks great. They just need to make it looks neutral from the inside. I'm interested in the route, but not if the windshield is that dark. Can't see anything.

    There are lamp posts there, but for some reason they don't appear lit up, they just emit light without appearing lit. How did noone from them notice it?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  35. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    Your logic is not wrong tbf, and it really boils down to personal preference. Personally for me Sherman is a bit of borefez especially the uphill runs, but others enjoy and love that route. Providing theres a variety of routes to cater for most tastes I think the game will continue to thrive. To me its bad planning that 2 short commuter routes have been released back to back and its sure to hurt sales of both especially when we are setting record high fuel costs and most of us are having to cut back on luxuries to some extent.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  36. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    Agreed redrev1917 , when it’s cost me £170 for a full tank of diesel for jeep I can’t warrant a dlc if I’m not 80%invested in it
     
    • Like Like x 2
  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,918
    Likes Received:
    23,934
    Not just road fuel but gas and electric. Both have jumped by something like £25 a month even though both were in credit.

    We've also just had to splash out @£3k on a new gas boiler as the old one is on its last legs.

    So there is definitely an element of caution and, frankly, I have enough train sim (in the broader sense) and other games on the PC that if I never bought another route for any of them, I'd have enough to keep me busy until I shuffle off this mortal coil. So it has to be something that I'm incredibly interested in (of which neither Harlem or the Swiss route fit that category) or selling dirt cheap to be worth a look.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  38. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    4,529
    Likes Received:
    10,147
    And Americans are complaining loudly because the price of gas is about $1.18/liter compared with about $2 in the UK!! Come on over and fill 'er up!!

    So do I. Between TS and TSW, I figure I have at least enough playtime until I ride that great railroad in the sky. Trouble is, when SOS comes along I know I'll be tempted to dip my toes in that water.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  39. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,701
    Likes Received:
    4,370
    Can we maybe Come back on topic?

    I like the FLIRT. It's a nicely done EMU and i know there will be repaints and scenarios, to drive realistically in germany. You see FLIRT on HRR for example. Of course without PZB, but hey, One step closer towards variability. The tinting is very annoying and i hope Rivet or atleast A community Mod fixes that.

    Compared to Arosa, the route is actually nicely done. Luzern reminds me of Glasgow, as so many trains are missing. But the scenery is Way better than Arosa.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  40. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,918
    Likes Received:
    23,934
    Sorry pal but it is relevant. Many people faced with huge cost of living rises don't have the spare cash to spend on sawn off routes with just one train..!
    DTG need to understand this when formulating quality and value for money.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2022
    • Like Like x 7
  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    Let's face it, DTG are a business and will try to make as much money as possible. I bet there response to what you said would be "if you can't afford it or think it's too expensive, wait for a sale or don't buy it."
     
  42. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    I am in the same situation. At the same time the new stuff is interesting (for example Harlem), but I already have more than enough to keep me happy. I even feel bad I don't play with some trains that much. The Class 313 and G6 spring to mind. Two trains I love but don't get to use much... the G6 due to the lack of services outside of RRO and the 313 as I would need to seriously get back into ECW, and again with so many routes I'm playing right now (DCZ, DRA, SKA) I just don't play that route... since I do want to buy Luzern I guess I'll reduce my SKA playtime a lot since I'd be doing S-Bahn there... well, at least the expansion pack was cheap...

    Really thought about buying Harlem but as you say, I already have too many DLCs already. I am thinking of skipping Steam as well

    Hopefully if a Class 700 releases I can use that to get back on UK content and put ECW and BML back into my "route rotation"
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  43. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2019
    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    1,220
    No liveries for the Flirt, haven't you heard?
     
  44. TimTri

    TimTri Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2021
    Messages:
    1,241
    Likes Received:
    2,641
    I agree with all your comments about the window tint. It’s definitely not ruining the route for me, but still far from ideal. Hope they can fix this, should just be a simple value somewhere in the window specifications/properties.

    Edit: The window tint looks much better in this recent video from Rivet compared to the preview stream and earlier dev videos. Maybe Matt just played a slightly outdated version during the stream.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  45. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    3,177
    Likes Received:
    9,160
    Seems that this thread is becoming a general feedback thread.

    Just for the actual topic, I do agree that the tint is massively overdone, as said above by others, this may be realistic, but as already proven by the ICE, and BR 187, these ‘effects’ really aren’t done very well in TSW, whether that’s a UE or dev issue, it should just be avoided, surely the window can be tinted from the outside but not on the inside? This way it would still be aesthetically realistic, but not detrimental to the gameplay.

    For other things I’d noticed; the performance was pretty poor, whilst I’m fine with FPS drops and am used to the stutter effect that TSW is plagued by, this went beyond that, and it’s quite concerning for a route of this size, which realistically is going to need more DLC. I will need to watch a second stream to confirm the performance, if it is how it was shown, I don’t think I could ever buy this route.

    Value seems to be a concern here, 112 services across a 15 mile route is on the very low side of content, even at the £20 price. Even if it is a real service pattern for what we have, stations like Luzern being devoid of stock are a huge turn off. If this was a route made by DTG, I’d probably avoid it unless it was 30%+ off, however for Rivet I suppose the scope is acceptable.

    Scenery I was pleasantly surprised by, I liked the urban vibe the route had whilst maintaining a green look, I especially liked the way the roads and platforms are well populated, definitely a huge improvement over the MNR DLC.

    The FLIRT itself looks incredible, however the sounds, these weren’t bad, but they weren’t exactly great. Personally I do not mind the sounds being less realistic, aslong as they’re well produced and provide a good experience, however I resent the way the devs keep saying “well such and such said they’re pretty realistic” when in fact they aren’t, and surely they know this, so when it is used as a defence for something they know isn’t the case, it’s really irking, when it doesn’t need to be. The 523 just sounds like a generic EMU, so whilst it’s not something that I’d say I hate, it’s certainly not what a FLIRT sounds like.

    Overall, If the performance turns out to be resolved, and the tint is at least lightened by the next stream, I’ll pick this up on release, I’ve been pretty stubborn as a PS5 player, due to issues, however the scenic nature and the FLIRT really grabbed me here, aswell as the AI vehicles and passenger count bringing the route to life, something DTG is really dropping the ball on lately. I do hope this route gets some layers and DLC in the future, it will really lift it.

    If it remains overly tinted, and with poor performance as was demonstrated, I won’t be touching this one unfortunately.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  46. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    928
    Hey guys, I'm not registered on Rivet Games' forums but if any of you could bring this topic up there it would be awesome. You're free to use the screenshots I've attached in the first two posts as well. My fear is that if Rivet's devs don't read this forum the feedback will not reach them and the windshield will remain like this. Though, with only a few days to go until release I'm not even sure whether it would have any effect at all.
     
  47. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 29, 2020
    Messages:
    1,134
    Likes Received:
    1,638
    Frankly it’s Jasper’s job to keep up with players concerns.
    Reading a couple of relevant forums is not exceptionally demanding.
    If he doesn’t provide feedback to the devs, who does?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  48. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,701
    Likes Received:
    4,370
    It's not compatible with Livery Designer?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  49. Dinosbacsi

    Dinosbacsi Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 20, 2017
    Messages:
    3,312
    Likes Received:
    8,665
    It really does look better. Hopefully they made it better for release.
     
  50. dbrunner#4864

    dbrunner#4864 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 25, 2021
    Messages:
    392
    Likes Received:
    533
    Really?


    You don't watch any cab videos from Austria or Switzerland do you? If you do you will see that all trains there have headlights that can lit up at least 50m in front of them
     
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 2

Share This Page