Just got the Harlem Line recently, after already running lots of LIRR. My first impression was how much faster the Metro North M7As are, so I did a couple timed runs, with comparable weights and 0% grade The Metro North: 6 cars, 340 tons: 0-20 5 sec, 0-40 14 sec LIRR: 6 cars, 356 tons: 0-20 11sec, 0-40 27 sec Even accounting for slight weight difference here, is it really possible that the M7A model is twice as fast as the M7 model? I haven't measured the real train accel, but it just felt too fast. To be fair it could just be that I got used to the LIRR. I wasn't able to find real world specs to compare the two, but considering there aren't major published distinctions, I highly doubt one is twice as fast as the other. Why did they model the Metro North to be so much faster? Harlem Line first impressions: The trains are very quick to accelerate and brake and you can't hold it in power or brake for more than a couple seconds to maintain speed, and need to click between power and brake to maintains speed. It's a bit on or off. I don't profess to know the real train, but both can't be correct, and it makes for a twitchy ride. Though it has it's appeal in the fast pace. The M3 is very quiet, smooth and feels more like a fast trolley than a light commuter. It makes very little noise, but the no bad sounds either. It feels ok, but I wonder if it's correctly modeled. The M7 as noted, is twice as fast as the LIRR, and difficult to modulate speed without shifting back and forth. It's got better sounds that the LIRR and seems slightly more polished. Some sections of the route seemed to have random speed changes. On same featureless sections of track, the ATS would jump for short periods of time to Medium, or Restricted and back to clear or limited, for no apparent reason, as the track was the same. I'm not 100% that it's wrong, but seems odd. Maybe will see if that's correct on that line That's all. Just wanted to share.
The M7A's acceleration isn't realistic. The acceleration on the M7A is was too fast. The LIRR M7 acceleration is a bit more realistic. I am not sure why they got the acceleration on the M7A wrong
Metro North's M7As have a different gear ratio compared to LIRR's M7s. ATC jumping is normal. As the distance between you and a train in front of you changes, ATC gives you the speeds it requires you to follow.
That kind of makes sense about ATC, and I'll have to give it the benefit of the doubt, until I see a real operating train dealing with it. On the topic of gearing and performance differences I posted in the other thread, but will repost here. While I also did a comparative drag test, one only has to look at the indicated Tractive Force and Speed to see what's going on: An electric motor has a power profile with the same shape as measured here. A constant torque from 0 rpm to a point where internal EMF starts to oppose input current. You have increasing HP from 0 to that point which is the max HP and from there remains constant while torque decreases. The final limit is the physical design limit for RPM and a point of minimal output. If both these M7s were using the same electric motors but with the M7A a higher gearing, you would get more early acceleration but decrease your RPM limit by that same amount and hence top speed. Increasing gearing ratio does not give you free HP! It just tunes your vehicle to utilize the whole motor rpm range for the desired vehicle speed range. Both trains by all accounts use the same HP motors and the fact that both trains max out at 105mph, indicates that it is in fact not simply gearing. It may be possible that LIRR de-rated it's motors torque output for longevity. Or it's simply modeled wrong. Maybe when I get a chance to ride on Metro North next time, I'll take some g force measurements. BTW, industrial machinery such as trains are designed to be operated at full power. As an example note that a Ford Power Stroke diesel is the same engine used in both the Super Duty F-series pickup and the Commercial line of chassis cabs. It actually outputs less HP in the commercial tune, because it's expected to work at capacity often, as opposed to the guy who will rarely tow anything so it's duty cycle is shorter and output can be higher. So I don't really know if I have a conclusion about these M7s. There doesn't seem to be definitive documentation about the differences. Though a source from Bombardier mentioned 2 mph / sec. and no M7A distinction. This would match well with the LIRR performance. Nowhere are any M7A performance differences documented. Of course I may just not have found it. Makes me wonder where DTG got this secret information about the electric motor torque curve. All I know is it's more difficult to operate the M7A as modeled on the Harlem line, with constant on/off pulsing. I don't remember the train feeling jerky when I rode it last.
At least ingame the uncoupling doesnt work on the m7a. The lirr m7 is working well. I hope dtg is gonna solve this.
I've been on the M7As many times and they aren't very jerky when they accelerate in real life. My uncle works for the Metro North Railroad and he usually goes full throttle when leaving a station. I've actually been in a cab with him driving and I can say that the M7As in real life do not accelerate as quickly as they do in the game. It's just not possible. M7As are basically M7s but configured to run on the MTA Metro-North Railroad.
Do you happen to remember how much On/Coast/Brake pulsing had to done? I know when the NYC subway drivers pulse, and it is quite noticeable. I think the power issue has been settled, but the power output at minimal notch question remains. I'm just assuming drivers would prefer more low speed control.
no it hasn't. Dtg rarely go in and change the physics which would also mean the sounds would also need changing to match the physics. Also, changing the physics can have effects on the timetable so the whole thing would have to be rebuilt since it was built based on the current physics. Cuz if a train accelerates slower and results in arriving at stations late, it could cause problems. Basically, it is not that simple to change the physics/acceleration and the knockon effects it would have on the timetable if it is not designed to handle the slower acceleration
Ok thanks ! Before getting my refund I successfully tried to drive the M7A realistically. The schedules already seem to have enough slack. It's a shame, as I particularly like driving commuter trains and I like the NYC trains and subways. DTG already corrected the BR Class 166 acceleration, maybe the M7A will get the fix it deserves... Someday
I was thinking of getting this in the sale but I don't think I will bother, a shame as it looks like a decent route on the face of it.
Thats true for most/all TSW DLCs. Looks great on the surface but once you dig a little deeper all the bugs and issues appear.
I agree with you, and a single look at the official train specs sheet, which is easily available on internet, would have prevented making this mistake. It is clearly stated that the starting acceleration rate is of 2 MPHPS (0,9 m/s²). Many recent rolling stock specs sheets are easily available on the internet. The TSW M7A needs : - to see its acceleration and braking capabilites reduced - not to react instantly when changing the throttle lever position, as there always is a slight delay even with brand new trains - it is likely that the minimum acceleration and braking rates on the controller are too sharp, but I may be wrong on this one ? Same here. That's the reason I asked, but no chance
Some "bugs" don't affect the immersion or playability some do. Missing track joint sounds do, services you are unable to complete do, unrealistic performance does if you know about it or it is obvious. I have bought Cross City, yes it has some problems but the overall experience is that route and train are very well made with some errors which should be fixed. Cathcart to me seems pretty solid.
How many cars in the consist? less cars naturally weighs less. Shorter trains accelerate a little quicker. and M7As are geared differently that the M7. Was he operating a longer consist of more that 6? As a former NYC subway conductor, I can tell you subway cars and operation are way different than Railroads. train operators on the NYC subway arent restricted on a lower speed when arriving, departing stations unless bypassing one. Arriving is "bring your train to a smooth stop and when leaving its "wrap it round"-a term used to describe throttling up, based on the older SMEE equipment. You will have those motions on an NYC subway while RRs have a limit on speed when entering and leaving stations depending on not only the agency, but who owns the tracks and any state regs that are in play. Sometimes on subway trains, trains jerk more often when accelerating and decelerating when the consist has any dead motors, usually idetified by an amber light on the side of the affected car. 3 out of 8 or 4 out of 10 cars with dead motors will usually have the set get taken OOS.
Regardless of car length, the m7a in game is literally a rocketship. If you go full power you could reach like 30mph in like 5 seconds. Even with a different gearing ratio, it is still really fast in game tbh.
