This is a thread I didn't want to make. Having been inspired by the 'open letter' threads and driven by my own internal frustrations. Since the release of Train Sim World 2, I have witnessed a reduction in quality in the game, various game breaking bugs being added to the game, and a lack of willingness to change from Dovetail or third party developers. I have arranged my thoughts into different sections. CONTEXT The final release for Train Sim World 2020 was the Class 20, a fairly good DLC, with very nice texturing and some nice innovations with wagons in relation to tail light placement (remember this for later). The run-up to this release was generally good. The routes and trains were generally high quality for the time, and there weren't any major bugs that I can remember except for the Class 31 scenario Cement Circle which could not be and still can't be completed on TSW2020. However, the releases dried up and many of us expected this to be for Train Sim World 2021. But, later that year, Train Sim World 2 was announced instead, which nobody was expecting. The game was set to include some new features people wanted. A scenario creator was included, albeit quite basic in its implementation. The new HUD was and still is vastly superior to what TSW had. The new control scheme was a lot more streamlined than the original. There was also the livery designer, but that was not really asked for and is still less capable than externally reskinning trains, like how we've been doing it in TS since 2007. The trouble was that the release of TSW2 did not go as intended. The scenario planner turned out to be practically useless, with no ability to change the weather, use portals, or do anything other than basic A to B scenarios. This gave it the moniker of 'glorified quick drive' which I don't believe is accurate as it was not quick at all, requiring a lot of setup to get something that just wasn't that good. Even worse is that it didn't work at all at launch - signals would get stuck at red, and you'd need to open the doors on the wrong side to get it to work (this is still an issue). The livery designer had various limitations. Not all trains were supported, and they still aren't, and those that did suffered from low-quality textures and removal of important things such as train information or numbers. Strangely, this didn't affect all trains - the Class 375 has a cant line visible and the 1972 Stock has numbers which appear. After some bugs had been fixed we started to see new DLC come out. The first of which was the Isle Of Wight, and this was generally a good DLC but did have bugs and graphical issues which are still issues (notice the amount of things still not fixed, it will be useful later on). Munich to Augsburg was good, but was butchered on consoles because of memory limitations. At the same time, TSW1 DLC was being converted for TSW2. However, this almost always introduced bugs, mostly relating to sound. Most of these issues are still not fixed. TSW1 DLC was not compatible by default and therefore needed an update to work, and this meant people had to wait months to play what they wanted to in the new game. One route in particular, NEC New York, was affected by this a lot. DTG decided not to update the route to TSW2 because of it making bugs worse (a bit of self-awareness here). I don't think NEC New York was much of a loss. It was hopelessly short, going from nowhere to nowhere, and was ugly and buggy. However, the bugs of NEC meant that other DLC couldn't be brought forward. The GP40-2, a DLC for CSX Heavy Haul/Sand Patch Grade, could not be transferred due to it having NEC's broken signalling system (although I wonder why they couldn't just deactivate it, as the DLC contained some nice wagons and scenarios which we haven't seen again). The SW1000R/Metroliner Cab Car could not be transferred either. The cab car is nice but sounded terrible, but the real loss was the SW1000R, which was one of the best trains in TSW, and we will likely not get it back for a very long time. This means that three trains and a variety of wagons are stuck in limbo with no attempt to bring them forward, either by updating or rebuilding them. This situation resulted in TSW feeling disjointed and buggy. But hey, at least it only got worse. DECREASING QUALITY After the fairly good first releases for TSW, we saw a downward turn for DLC. The height of this for me was LGV and London to Faversham. The former had good sounds but very poor scenery created by a lackluster effort - using a basic autogeneration tool created scenery that wouldn't look out of place in Gran Turismo 4. While the TS version had an extension to Lyon which made the route more significant in its length, the TSW version was short, despite being among the longest routes in TSW at the time. Signalling systems were also broken upon release, because of course they were. London to Faversham sealed the deal though. During its development, it was one of the most hyped routes for TSW so far. So naturally, DTG messed it up. The initial stream to show off the route was appalling. There were no fences on sections of HS1 where they should be. This revealed the bad scenery outside of the route and looked unfinished. The colouring of the ballast was also too clean for the non-HS1 section, which was a thing they couldn't properly fix, as the route entirely used on ballast colour. Therefore, HS1 had a terribly dirty ballast texture upon release. They also fixed the fence issue, just in a stupid way. The fences would not look out of place in a prison. They were twice the height of a human and prevented us from seeing outside, making the route feel claustrophobic and linear. The worst thing for me was the lack of detail in different parts of the route. Custom assets in the Train Simulator version are generic ones in TSW2, and hilariously many station assets made for the TS version (released in 2013) were reused in TSW2 - and as you can expect, they are horrible to look at. So, combining bad sounds and bad scenery, we got a route that was unforgivably bad. The quality of routes as a whole has gone downhill since the first two, CSX Heavy Haul and Great Western Express. The former had thick vegetation and detailed rivers, for example. Modern routes such as Cathcart have neither - modern routes are uglier, have less content and are buggier. It is not acceptable. RUSH HOUR The Rush Hour situation was a catastrophe from start to finish. Rush Hour was initially pitched as an expansion pack. It was set to be an equivalent to the yearly updates for TS and TSW, but instead of changing the routes in the base game, you'd buy it separately for the same price. This put the three routes at £24.99, a very fair deal. The routes were also set to release at the same time during the summer. But, as you can expect, this didn't happen. In a bombshell announcement, the price was set to increase to £34.99 and act as a season pass. Additionally, the Riesa to Dresden route was shortened. London to Brighton gained a branch line, but one that was only a few miles and was terribly detailed. So, with the release of this information, people were rightly furious. Pay more, get less, and later. I remember one of the moderator saying £35 was a fair deal, but I disproved that by pointing out that RailWorks 2 and TS2012 came with nine routes (GWML, ECML, Bath to Templecombe, Cajon Pass, Hagen to Siegen, Hedborough North, Seebergbahn, Castle Rock and the still-useful TestTrak) for a similar price. Ironically, most of those routes are longer than TSW ones - GWML goes to Oxford rather than just reading, and Ruhr-Sieg Nord is literally half the length of its TS equivalent. It was damage control gone wrong - DTG overpromised and when they realised they couldn't manage to do it they were backed into a corner they couldn't get out of. But hey, at least it only got worse. Before the release of Rush Hour's first route, the stupidly titled Boston Sprinter (Boston to Providence), we were treated to the Epic Games version of TSW2. This featured a new UI, which was terrible. The colouring was ugly, the UI was slow and hard to navigate. New features, such as a map on the pause menu screen, was practically useless. The UI was a complete downgrade over what came before it, and the new main menu diorama was dark, unwanted and yet again a downgrade, especially over the nice backgrounds we had in TSW1. It also meant we couldn't see the previews of the weather and the camera positioning meant livery previews were not useful to see the liveries. Again a stupid decision that shouldn't have been made. None of the issues with the Epic Games UI were fixed with the release of Rush Hour. Yet, it wasn't even a major issues compared to the game-breaking bugs brought by the update. On consoles, the DLC libraries did not update properly, meaning that players would be unable to play anything except for a very limited selection of routes and trains not affected by the update. Xbox players needed to reinstall the game but after this the game worked as normal. On PlayStation, it was a different story completely. DTG effectively needed to rerelease all of the DLC for the game for us to claim them again and play with them. Not only does this mean we have duplicate DLCs in our libraries, but for days we could not play the game. It was the worst failure in DTG's history and the effects can still be felt today. There was no evidence of testing the update or taking in feedback regarding any part of the update. The next release, Riesa to Dresden, was a relatively normal release, although it had major performance issues on consoles which are still issues - I have not been able to complete a run on the south of the route without the game crashing. It is unplayable. Brighton Main Line was a different story. The route seemed quite promising. It had a brilliantly busy timetable (created by the talented Joethefish with help from YouTuber MoleMan978), very good sounds on the trains (including details even the hailed Armstrong Powerhouse missed) and the most advanced implementation of PIS on a British train. Yet, the release was an issue yet again. Reigate station was basic in its detail, making it a drag to look at. The same performance issues on consoles were felt, limiting the timetable to the basic services. The most hilarious issue was to do with Rush Hour itself. The update brought increased passenger numbers on all platforms, but due to performance issues they are not implemented on a route literally called 'Rush Hour: London Commuter'. Amazing. THIRD PARTIES TSW has been full of duds for a while. The Diesel Legends pack was useless, for example. The Class 313, a no-show for months, releases with inaccurate sounds, incorrect modelling and moronic texturing. However, many of these duds were developed by third parties. The BR204 was knowingly released broken and Rivet games (worthy of a thread themselves) has refused to fix it in any way. The Isle Of Wight had issues as previously mentioned. Cane Creek, while visually beautiful, had bugs relating to the rolling stock, including wagons that had no sounds at all, and only now is the route being fixed. The 1938 Stock is generally beautiful as well (although Rivet never struggled with modelling trains) but is buggy and has awful sounds taken from the 1972 stock, like the Class 483 from the Isle Of Wight (themselves taken from early TS trains such as the 4CIG, so a double combo for inaccuracy). The BR187 (also worthy of its own thread), featured incorrect sounds, broken modelling with incorrect lights, and broken signalling system. It was and still is unplayable, and should never have been released. Only now is it starting to be fixed. West Cornwall Local was initially promising but when it was released we were treated with a time-travelling Class 150 that had sounds that I could make myself, and scenery that was so basic in parts it was an insult to Cornwall. Luzern - Sursee was alright but suffered from post-launch glitches, funnily enough trying to fix problems at launch. Horseshoe Curve was also okay, but is still imperfect and has weird quirks. Other than Train Sim Germany, which is very talented, the third parties are not up to scratch. There have been calls for DTG to tighten controls on third parties, and this may still be a good option to stop them releasing total crap into the Train Sim World ecosystem. INSIDE THE MINDS OF DOVETAIL Dovetail is an interesting company. It's a company that wastes its talent, a company that wastes our time, and a company that tries to be the arbiter of fairness and innovation while failing at both, as well as a company that tries so hard to do things yet fails so spectacularly every time. DTG definitely can make good content. The TSW1 days were generally good, especially during the TSW2020 era. In Train Simulator, DTG had a bad reputation like they do now (especially during the TS2014/15/16 days) but released great stuff like the Riviera Line in the Fifties (still a better option for Spirit of Steam than Liverpool to Crewe) and more recently the APT, which was possibly the best thing DTG have ever done. It is one of the few things in TS that can probably be given a perfect score. Buy it immediately. Yet, then and now, innovation is something DTG are quite touchy with. Game Of Gnomes, for example, had scripting in TS that could have been so useful later on, such as moving assets (the gnomes) with sound effects, full-screen graphics (the DTG logo coming up on screen in the first scenario), and music in certain parts of the route. As far as I am aware, none of these features were used again. The original Kuju content for Rail Simulator also had features rarely seen again. The HST's passenger view had ambient sounds such as the rubbing of coaches and clattering of plates. The Class 166 also featured basic passenger announcements. Both of these features appeared again but not in DTG products. The ambient passenger view sounds were featured in JustTrains' Voyager DLC, and the announcements featured in the Thomson Interactive Class 350. The same issue is in TSW - I previously mentioned the tail light mechanics in the Class 20 DLC, which allowed the tail lights on trains to be automatic but could be overridden. Naturally, as far as I can tell this feature never returned. DTG have an awkward habit of developing things that they never use again despite their benefits. What are they thinking? That same question can be asked for lots of things DTG chose to do. The addition of Mastery to Train Sim World was unwanted and buggy, and was effectively forced in our faces. The only true positive was that it gave new menu dioramas, meaning we'd have six if we completed everything. The route introductions in TSW2 all go through the basic tutorial of the game, such as how to move the camera and always asking 'Do you want to invert your vertical axis?' This makes them a chore to go through, whereas the reason for their inclusion (some players buying the game specifically for one DLC) could be avoided by having one tutorial at the start of the game, as well as tutorials for things the game doesn't cover, like signalling. It's almost like something they did in Train Simulator - that's right, the Academy, which was made for pretty much this purpose. A less important but concerning problem is Dovetail's political agenda. The moderators claim they don't have one, but there is no way to disprove it. Texturing a massive transgender flag on a shipping container is not political gesturing according to DTG, nor is modelling female firemen in an age where women weren't trusted behind the wheel of a car. We're not allowed to complain about this stuff either, as anything that isn't progressive is lockable in DTG's eyes - as proven by this post and this one. If you have a viewpoint other than DTG's when it comes to this stuff, your thread will be locked sooner or later as you have the wrong opinion. Who thought 1984 would be enforced by the developers of Train Simulator? Remember, they are actively choosing to put political opinions before the integrity of the game. The irony is that DTG refused to add real-life COVID liveries to the games, such as the Class 395 with a face mask, but a more than willing to include pride liveries and even make their own. Because that goes very well with JD's statement that "There is no 'political', 'sexual equality' or 'gay agenda' here." DTG also focus so much on new things that bugs that have been in the game for years are not fixed. The structure of TSW being so individual - even the UI is based on the train driven and not the game itself - means that fixes are hard to implement. The multiple variants of the Doppelstock coaches, the Electrostars and the SD40-2 show this, as each one has its own flaws and benefits, and a fix for one will not affect any of the others. This was an issue in Train Simulator and seeing it repeated breaks my heart - DTG have not learnt from mistakes made in 2007. At no point has DTG taken a step back, looked at what they are doing, and asked "Is this really the best way?" In summary, DTG is a company that is out of touch with its fanbase and is not aware of its own capabilities. They overpromise and underdeliver (sometimes cancelling things entirely); they force features we don't want in our face; they actively ruin things that were fine; they have no sense of style, they create features they never touch again; they have no control over what others release for TSW; they are not capable of fixing bugs; they do not learn from their mistakes, they do not listen to their own QA teams and they'll keep on doing it for the rest of time. My final statement is that I do not trust Dovetail Games to make the right choices. I do not believe Dovetail, in its current form, is capable of developing their games in a competent way. I do not believe DTG has the systems in place to understand and fix issues they cause themselves. As they are now, and as they have been for at least a decade, DTG are just not good game developers. There needs to be a very serious rethink in the way Dovetail is run, because the current position is untenable. I am many things - selectively bisexual, an actor, a train enthusiast - but I am not a DTG employee and therefore I cannot say exactly what needs fixing. I suspect there is a very top-down management structure which means teams are not given the freedom and time to develop properly, and I also suspect there is poor communication inside the company and with its fanbase - Matt (I believe) literally said himself they would not accept the results of polls on the forum as it would make people feel they have an influence on the game. This company is a joke. Goodbye.
I know people will look at the above and either consider that a rant or a spot-on speech. Regardless, I recognize many frustrations (mostly self-inflicted by DTG themselves) that just continually drive railfans away from the genre. Deep-down, TSW is still not really living up to its full potential for alot of people. Consider that we're 4-5 years in this new platform, and we've have had roughly three third-party developers (4 if Ed counts). I just don't see an overwhelming enthusiasm.
Very interesting read and many points I agree with. Will it make any difference, probably not, and that’s a shame. We all want TSW to do well and keep improving, but it’s usually one step forward, two back.
I agree with this especially the political agenda part. Dovetail games are a business. They aren't a human rights organization. Their main purpose is to make money. It is clear that they have a political agenda even if they will say otherwise. It's weird that they will rush to lock threads that pertain criticisms about those issues which shows clear political agenda bias yet they won't add covid themes like face masks for passengers or the class 395 which has a face mask or respond to threads like one that asks dtg to improve sound. A simple solution would be to have things like female fireman and pride symbols optional. Although I bet dovetail won't listen. It is a shame that quality went down pretty much after SEHS released. I don't think all the people who makes the dlcs aren't very passionate about what they do. I mean how is something as basic as track noise when going through a point missing from a route or is so low? Why do DTG say they will improve but then the next update or route will have obvious bugs case in point with the latest Preservation Crew update. DTG need to be more firm with their third party devs. They shouldn't be allowed to release new content if they won't go back and fix their previous dlc. The only good third party dev is TSG frankly I hope that DTG will improve but frankly I just keep losing confidence in them. They say they learn but frankly I don't see it. This is why I am looking forward to Simrail to come out because I feel like for dovetail to improve, they need a actual competitor that will take sales away from them and will now give console players an alternative option instead of just TSW2.
I couldn't agree more that it's one step forward and two steps back. Service mode and the PIS are great features that can't exist as core features in TS, but whenever these innovations are made something else is broken. TSW is effectively a car held together with duct tape, as is TS. I wonder how long this thread will last. Of course, if this thread does get locked it will prove you and I right.
I find myself curious Doomotron and must ask a question, if you find the fair representation of all walks of life so offensive and the game so bad why are you here? For the record (and putting being an ambassador aside for a moment), for me each DLC has gotten better. Bugs are getting fixed quicker. Yes there are still some long outstanding but that is life in software. I work in the software industry and our technical debt is massive. The 80/20 rule is all the rage with management. That is simply commercial reality. DTG can't be any different. If they want to pay their 100+ employees every day they simply cannot afford to make everything perfect or they'll go bankrupt. This is the same for every single product out there. I also work on a real life railway most weekends and have for over 40 years. There isn't a single day where something doesn't go wrong with our trains, track or infrastructure sometimes minor and annoying sometimes serious. That is also life with limited resources and unlimited maintenance needs. We just make do and get on with it. Our passengers rarely know anything has happened because we're all dedicated to making sure they're not affected and have a fun day in the same way that we want to have a fun day. As for game features you don't like? Others love them. Life is like that, everyone is different and has different needs and wants in life. I take joy in the things that make me happy and breeze over the things that don't. Paul
I don't think he finds all walks of life offensive. He did say he is bisexual. Also asking a person that has a problem with the game why they are here is frankly stupid. I have problems with the game but I am here because I want it to improve. People that tend to have problems with the game are the ones that want it to improve and get better. Not the ones that will overlook everything and act like it's good and not say anything bad. Yes trains in real life to break down and have issues, but in TSW2 that isn't simulated and frankly isn't really relevant to the overall point of this thread. The problem is that DTG say they will improve and yes progress does take time. But then it shouldn't be the case of we will improve and then release a update that has a broken PIS system on a train that can be spotted in seconds. That's why the second "Open Letter to DTG QA issues" was posted because people wonder how can a obvious bug be released when the update was completed late last year and how are these updates causing more issues. Yes people like to have different things in their games. Nobody in life would like everything that's offered. But this is exactly why I think DTG should give more options to players. There should be an options to go back to the old ui. DTG should give us options to have pride liveries or not especially if pride liveries in Creators club are optional. My brother is bisexual and so is my girlfriend but not everyone wants to see pride symbols if it's not there in reality when playing a game for their own reasons. They should give us a option to have a female firemen. From what I have seen about that topic and the pride container topic, it's not because players are sexist, or homophobic but because it wasn't realistic to have female firemen in the 50s in the U.K. It's a realism issue. Having options certainly isn't a bad thing and would allow players to play the game how they want to play it. Frankly if you are happy with the state of the game, that is fine. But don't ask people why they are here if they have problems with the game. That's just being arrogant and thinking small minded. At most it's just stupidity
Having options to satisfy everyone is expensive tallboy7648 Maintaining two UI, (at least) two sets of liveries, etc. mind not seem to hard, but what about the next change, do they now have to support three versions, four in the next? Change happens. Its perfectly ok to voice your opinion about it but the silent majority will always voice their opinion by buying the product or not. In the software industry as a product is tested (note I am specifically NOT commenting on how DTG work, I am speaking in general) a defect list will come into existence usually logged in a product like Jira. Each item will be reproduced and prioritised before being put into a state that they are ready for developers. The developers will chew through them generally in priority order until they run out of budget. Each project will have a completion criteria and a go live criteria of what is "good enough". You might assume the things you see were overlooked, but its more likely they fell victim to the 80/20 rule and pass into technical debt. This is simply the reality of the software industry. Last week I was brought into a discussion on one of our applications for a problem that was directly the result of a bug that was known in 2003 and not fixed. We're still not going to fix it because the cost of fixing it simply doesn't stack up against the benefit in a business case. It costs our business around 0.5 person hours per month to work around it, yet it would cost over $50K to fix it. It costs $300 per year to work around it, so the return on investment from the fix would be 166 years. This means the person annoyed by it unfortunately has to live with it. Game development is no different. Paul
Well if ain't broke, don't fix it. The current menu ui has it's flaws. You can't see the intensity of your rain or snow settings. You can't really see the side of your train meaning that you can't really see your custom livery. The point is that yes it is good to innovate but it's not like the criticisms of the current ui aren't valid. You say it's expensive yet there was a modder who managed to revert the game back to the old TSW2 U.I. Another made adjustments to their liking. Again some people may like it the one we have and that's fine. But saying that it would be expensive when a modder can do it for free is moot frankly. DTG aren't exactly broke so options for the U.I shouldn't be difficult to do either to be honest. It's not like making a brand new route or train. An option to have your own fireman would mean that the player would just select from a range of characters just like how you do when you start the game. DTG don't really need to change the U.I every time. Sure they could add minor changes like how some games do like the F1 game did but it's not necessary to completely overhaul the entire system and then use money as a excuse especially when some players can add or revert back for free. It's self inflicted to be honest
I know you're not referring to DTG specifically here, but you have to admit... it's a rather poor analogy to give to the rather (seemingly and admittingly) vocal minority here. With particular reference to Spirit of Steam. Small holes in scenery.... I can overlook. Slightly rushed scenery work.... I can overlook. Getting passengers disappearing from stations... I can overlook. But if we were to apply your analogy to SOS, DTG KNOWINGLY put out a bug in a train simulator... where the train can't even stay on the rails properly. There's just some things you can't overlook if you're selling to a target audience... or you can expect pitchforks. At that stage, it becomes either incompetence or negligence. You don't get to claim "Well folks, that's life..." to either!
Completely agree with you delta who. It seems inconceivable to me that these weren't at BEST spotted before release, which then beggars the question, why release it then. Small bugs which don't impact on driving such as scenery, plus the Xbox audio issues (controversial, but you can manage it) can be overlooked initially before being mostly ironed out. But for chronic bugs particularly when they know there's a bug with what they're doing, such as the crashes, derailments etc. Do you really think they care? For example, Sam has been online since this thread was created, has he been here explaining away and trying to appease us? No. We've been telling them for years about the problems with the game and it's just not registering. Seems they've lost interest in our genuine and rightful expectations. I know that JD may read these and do his Agony Aunt thing, don't bother, save it. I feel sorry for the table Matt's been headbutting repeatedly, it needs to be a bloody long table so they can all join in.
If you are referring to the locomotive derailing while braking unfitted vans: Its a realistic behaviour. Live with it. As Paul said: There are rules any company has to play by in terms of maintaining a healthy business. If you dont understand that, then well, tough luck for you. Sam is Creative Director so this is none of his business. This is customer feedback. But it is funny. There are so many people thinking they are business experts, software development experts AND marketing experts here that it is really ridiculous. YOu can have your opinion but dont pretend to be an expert of things you have no insight in.
I think tsw2 is a great game, simulation whatever you call it and I am seeing improvements to each dlc. However, the amount of bugs takes away the enjoyment. I am for the most part unbiased cuz I know what to expect and it allows me to see different railroads from other parts of the world. However, what really annoys me is whenever they update the game or release new dlc, the same bugs that have been there since the beginning are still there. I have watched livestreams and the forums and always hear the same thing over and over again. I am getting tired of hearing this is gonna be fixed at some point and then having to wait over a year to fix it to just break another thing and the silence we get. Am I going to stop supporting tsw cuz of the issues? no. I will always continue to enjoy playing tsw2, buying more dlc and seeing improvements over time. I am not here to blame the devs for doing a terrible job. I just want more consistent releases where there aren't gamebreaking bugs. I want to be able to play the game without any major issues. Poor scenery, sounds, etc I can manage. But, not being able to play the game is another thing. I want tsw to be the best game out there. I want dtg to actually make an effort to fix the game so it is playable and people can enjoy it.
Even when the train is stopped? Whilst braking is understandable but when stopped that shouldn't be happening
Last 8F service I tried, my train basically shot up into space. We don't need SpaceX... apparently we need to bring back British Rail xD
Did you hear something of stiffness? The loco can be on a standstill while the cars are still moving pressing against each other and derail. Its so funny. People complained about bad physics for years in TSW and then, when a realistic feature that includes derailing is in the game, its a bug or bad physics.
Why are we bickering about this? When was the last time you heard about a train in real life derailing because of coupling or uncoupling? Answer is NEVER.
Well maybe because it doesnt happen in modern times anymore. SoS is in 1958. And surely you are an physics expert for unfitted vans that drove steam engines back in the 50s.
So then it is normal when a train is completely stopped. So when there is no wind and is completely motionless, the train can just derail. Now it all makes sense.... Granted it was the 1950s so it could've been a common occurrence so if that's a thing then it's good that safety has gone a long way. Heck, maybe it was normal for trains to be shot up the sky into space as well
Ok when the train stands and suddenly derails without any other impact, thats a different thing. I just referred to the derailing under braking issue.
I really don't understand why everyone seems to be making such a big deal about this kind of stuff. It's sad that we can't get some trans representation without people blasting it for having an" agenda". I fail to see why DTG trying to show their support for the trans community is apparently so problematic. As for the female fireman I have to be honest... Why the heck do people seem to care so much?? I couldn't give a flying fart what gender mine is, most of the time in SOS you're lucky to get one in the first place!! I understand the argument against it, but I don't think it's worth starting arguments over. If I get one I think "huh, that's inaccurate, but pretty cool I guess", and move on. While I agree DTG shouldn't censor threads that contain content that don't align with their views, I think the female fireman thread was shut down more because of the fact that people were being really vile towards each other. That's one thing I will defend DTG on, to an extent at least. They have to deal with a really demanding, sometimes toxic fanbase.
Its perfectly ok to not like change, difficulty to accept change is common across all humanity. There are whole categories of the work force who manage change on a daily basis simply because people find change difficult. Change where we are not in control of it and where we are forced to accept it or leave makes us fell helpless. This is natural. Its the same anger you might feel if a road speed limit was mysteriously dropped making it take longer to use a road you've been using for years. You may not know why something changed, but that does not mean there wasn't a good reason to do it behind the scenes. I've personally had a derailment happen when I asked a driver to ease up to release the tension on a knuckle coupler so I could pull the pin, as he eased up compressing the coupler springs in the first few cars, I yanked the pin and the lead wheel set of the lead bogie on the care derailed at the moment the knuckles released. So it does happen. The unrealistic bit in TSW2 is the one off all off thing that happens when the physics engine gets confused. What would be a minor incident with one wheel set in the dirt to be jacked up and put back on turns into a train in space. That bit is unrealistic. Paul
Very much agree here James. Thank you. There are individuals here who are extremely toxic and play the man not the issue. It is perfectly ok to have different views. It is perfectly ok to have reasonable discussion. Its not ok to attack people or the views they hold. Paul
Bugs are getting fixed quicker? I'm sorry but I completely disagree on this point. We've still got broken services due to incorrect paths on DRA. We've still got dispatcher issues on Harlem causing terminal red lights, broken Incab signalling on SH. Freezes and stuttering on LC & DRA. BS it's still impossible to keep to most service timetables when you switch on Incab signalling. A save game feature not fit for purpose on many routes. SoS has been released with no track joint sounds, unfitted wagons derailing at will to name just 2 of many issues reported. Virtually every route has long standing issues since release which have never been fixed. When a route is updated for every bug fixed another 2-4 bugs appear. The game is going backwards and if you took your rose tinted spectacles off for one minute you'd realise this.
Well, if they are not fixed yet, it might possibly be, and I really think that is hard to understand, a harder task to fix it because the cause of the bug is rooted somewhere a short fix would cause chaos. The issues with the save game is something that is understandably frustrating but luckily most of the services are around 30 minutes playtime. The no track joint sound issue is going to be fixed soon and the derailling issue with the unfitted brake vans is realistic and not a bug. Paul also explained where some bugs dont get fixed. And to be honest: The preservation crew is something that puts a risk on a business since you as company cant be sure that the costs the PresCrew causes are coming back by increased sales.
Yeh some people don't like change, but then when there are still people who say they don't like the current U.I, that frankly is a problem. So I guess not having the ability to see the intensity of the rain is something we have to get used too. Was it necessary to completely overhaul the U.I? Absolutely not. Sure minor changes isn't a bad thing but a major overhaul was not necessary. This is why options would easily solve this problem and if modders can do it for free, DTG certainly can.
Well there is creators club. Also players play by themselves anyways so some people may not want to see it for various reasons if it's not there in reality. Having optional liveries would easily solve this problem.
The problem with any new option you add is that it comes with additional implementation effort and issues. I am totally on with the UI stuff as I wish we could have some nice compromise between the TS UI and the TSW UI (especially when it comes to the HUD, speedometer etc).
How can a multicolor flag or a female fireman in a game can hurt you or take something from you? I will never get that.
I am aware of that but it's not like DTG don't have the resources to do so. They just have to be willing to do it. Of course they don't have to, but some players can't act like it would be expensive or extremely difficult when modders can do it and not have issues.
How do you know that? "Its not like they dont have the resources". On what source do you base that on? There are various reasons where DTG decided to design the game in a certain way because you have to stay on budget and time. DTG cant do everything just to satisfy everyone. Thats disappointing for some but necessary to keep the game and the company running. Compromises can be disappointing but they are necessary.
I'm the case of DRA with the service which has marker points in the wrong order. This is not a hard thing to fix. Put them in the right order and test the timetable again. If that's too hard just remove the service entirely for the timetable to resolve the issues it causes.
Modders don't have consequences, they don't have to QA across six different platforms all with different rules and they don't have to support the change. DTG have to do all of these things. Modders also don't care about licensing, trademark violation, copyright, plagiarism, etc. A modder being able to make a changer doesn't mean its easy for DTG to make the same change. Paul
Well, changes to the timetable require a re-simulation of it to make sure that everything is fixed. And this takes its time. So you are basically spending 1 Day or more just to resimulate the timetable because of 1 single service. Dont get me wrong: I would love to see that service fixed, but it is just not worth the effort in terms of cost and time.
You are correct, and not to mention a change to the timetable might also need a change to core - the way the game and dispatcher work. Now that has to be tested across everything.
Where did I mention modders? I didn't so I really don't understand what point you are making in your attempt to defend the indefensible. The game is going backwards, that's not down to anyone but DTG.
Well no kidding. But these issues could've been prevented in the first place nor should it take several years to fix. Yes they have to release the product so they can earn money but it would be better to sort out the major issues prior to release instead of releasing the product and making players wait months or years for a fix that should've happen prior to release. This really isn't defensible when it could've been avoided. It's always easy to blame outside factors but sometimes you just gotta look in the mirror.
The game is not going backwards just because you dont get what you want. And if you think its going backwards, why arent you looking for a more forward-looking game then? TSW has its own path it moves on and thats what DTG does: It moves on. Bugs are part of that path. If the game really would go backwards, we neither would have updates or new DLCs at all. And the fact is: Spirit of Steam is a big step forward.
At this point it is very obvious that you either dont understand or didnt read the points Paul explained very simply above.
When Ive routes which arent capable of being ran to the same standard as they did on release, then the game is going backwards. Rapid Transit has had 2 updates and both have left the route in a worst state then before. If thats not going backwards then what is?
So a route that constantly crashes is definitely something we all want then and can't finish a service. Or a route that has trains shooting up in the air. A route with a broken pis is also something we want. Wow, just wow.
Well I would say that your expectations are then by far too high. Rapid Transit is still a decent route with two timetables with the newer one being more realistic. The scenery is decent and apart from stuff like missing freight traffic it is a perfectly fine route. And the recent updates fixed quite some stuff. Oh and before you start with "But the PIS on the Talent 2" etc. etc. I know. These things happen.
