Stricter Requirements For Second & Third Parties Needed

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by londonmidland, Jun 12, 2022.

  1. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, CSX was developed alongside the base game itself, so would be very much affected by the development of TSW moreso than its own.
     
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  2. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    And it shows. In my opinion, Sand Patch is the true benchmark that has never quite been equalled, though GWE and Clinchfield have come close, as have a couple of German routes.
     
  3. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This is what I was getting to... Because DTG now had a "live product" and commercial pressures to deliver, the content got worse. Seems to correlate
     
  4. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Lets not forget that GWE also came with 2 complete new trainsets, a freight loco and a freight wagon. Nowadays all we get are recycled Electorstars and Dostos. :P
     
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  5. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think they rebuilt the electrostar for the GX version because it had a whole different window frame... :cool:
     
  6. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, and they moved the AWS switch which tricked me. But most notably, it has a different livery. Feels like the same train in every other way. Just like all the Talent 2s and the Dostos all feel pretty much the same train.
     
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  7. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Yup, doesn't mean DTG didn't do more work than maybe was necessary though. I know people like to beat up on the fact there are a lot of "the same train" in game (especially 3rd rail London centric) but I'd happily see a sprinter or turbo star series in game and have them produce routes routes where they're used extensively so they DON'T need to produce that much more rolling stock to have an effective (and full-ish) timetable
     
  8. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    I think it's more than fine to reuse rolling stock if there's something new coming with it. DB uses dostos everywhere, we will see them on nearly every route, but they shouldn't be the only thing there. (and they should have a unified quality, not 30 different iterations, but that is a whole different topic)
     
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  9. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And what I was getting it is that if they made stock that could be reused WITHOUT having to amend or change anything other than reskinning it then they could just use it across multiple routes and then add in the bespoke assets for that line. As an example make a 158 body, include it with Bristol routes, Cardiff routes, Scotland routes and North West routes, but with those route those routes include a local train (so maybe a class 60, 175 etc)
    That way we get a "base train" and one other. I think with BML because both were basically electrostars, and we already had another electrostar they kind of shot themselves in the foot.
    They DID give us "two new trains" but they were of a kind that ew already had
     
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  10. Maybe it's my eyes but one day GWE looked really nice then the next it looked like crap. It was like all the texture quality had been reduced, draw distance reduced. I could literally see the track loading infront of my train. I convinced myself it was my hardware but 3 new gpus and 2 pcs later its definitely not a hardware issue.

    ini file tweaks seemed to cure a lot of the problems but it still don't look like it did at launch.

    I agree they should spend more time on development, especially testing! Like sos. That route should not have been released with the amount of bugs it had. Like the red signal glitches, minutes into the route? Surely if someone had of tested it they would of noticed that problem. Or is it just a build it and release it, then let the customers point out all the bugs thing?

    Focus interactive have the same approach with snowrunner but atleast they have the test server, so players can test it in devopment and point out problems, without paying for the dlc. Then on release if you like it you buy it and if you don't like it you don't buy it.

    Another thing I can't stand is all this generic scenery. Same looking stations, grass, trees, plants, even buildings get moved over from one route to the next.
     
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  11. roysto25

    roysto25 Well-Known Member

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    All of the discussion ultimately comes down to time and money. DTG have the skills given those two elements. Forget porting to a different game engine - truly a stupid idea. If you want far better quality, as with most products in the world, you have to pay for it. Apple is usually lauded for their quality (not always correct), but their customers generally believe it and have proven themselves willing to pay more than for competitive products. Realistically, DTG pricing is too low and the reliance on sales cannibalizes revenue (something Apple does not have to do to any serious level) - TBH I have no idea how to change that, since DTG must have pricing analysts. However, my suggestion would be for DTG to take a risk and go all out for a quality route, maybe under a 'Pro' brand label and charge significantly more - and commit to rapid patching of issues - if other users are like me, rapid release of fixes and improvements is far above any other issue.

    Incidentally, the reason I use Apple for comparison is that with the i-phone, like DTG, they are on the 'rolling wheel', depending on customers constantly buying the latest and 'greatest' for revenue.
     
  12. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    i would happily pay extra for a 'pro' version of routes / trains,
    i am only interested in German trains and routes, but in TSC there's Virtual Railroads Expert Line, their route and trains are pretty amazing, you pay for all the extra features and quality... about £25 for a single loco with coaches and a driving trailer (if it's a passenger loco) you also get things like a working in cab EBuLa system on the latest trains!
     
  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The problem with topics of raising prices is that just because some people would be willing to pay more, doesn't mean everyone would. Also DTG have said again and again that increased prices doesn't mean that quality will be better yet some still call for increased prices for some odd reason.
     
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  14. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And as Matt has said repeatedly (and Sam, and JD) If you don't want to buy it, don't
     
  15. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    I really dislike this approach, it comes across that DTG don't care about the quality of what they release and if you have any criticism then you should just go away.
     
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  16. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    That's one way of taking it. I take it as "if you don't want a route you don't have to buy them all" and as someone who is only interested in non-steam UK routes it's something I stick to. I will never buy a German or US route because they hold no interest, same for SoS. So I watched the streams for SoS with interest but only in how they made a "close to transition route" for when (if) they do early diesel
     
  17. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    When used in that context it's fine, but they peddled that line with the 187 over the bugs as just one example.
     
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  18. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And many customers on this forum stated back then that they got it refunded... I'm sure as a "protest vote" that made someone at DTG think "maybe we should do something"...
    Not sure if they did, but they might have thought it
     
  19. I think it's already priced about right. Look at tsc, with the amount of dlc released over the years, some of us have spent 1000s.

    I can't say I know of any other games that cost that much?

    I've made a few large routes on tsc and the amount of work that goes into them is phenomenal! As I understand it the editor for tsw is no where near as simple as the tsc editor.

    Although there's a lot of extra work involved, the fact that it's available on consoles has given dtg a bigger income from the routes they make and third party developers.

    But then it's always the same with big companies these days. The hearts of the developers may be in it but there's always someone at the top that don't give a shite about nothing else than turning over a nice profit.
     
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  20. 59321747

    59321747 Well-Known Member

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    Silly analogy, Apple is building its own closed empire. Today, Apple doesn't have many advantages.
     
  21. roysto25

    roysto25 Well-Known Member

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    "Silly analogy, Apple is building its own closed empire."
    Not so silly - DTG effectively has a nearly closed empire, at least with trains (I would be interested to see what DTG market share is in the railroad simulation arena) - and yes, Apple is seeing greater challenges, but that is due to market (and application) saturation more than anything else.
     
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  22. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of alternatives to TSW and TSC - Let see - Zusi 3, Derail valley, TrainZ, Run 8, and Diesel Rail Car just to name a few off top of my head. You also have Open Rails and of course the original MSTS that has a persistent and dedicated following. I am sure I have missed a few as well. That is why I do not understand why there seems to be a very vocal minority here that is always complaining about the various companies - if you do not like their choices or practices - go to one of the alternatives. Just like Apple is losing market share - their Computers are (and always have been) really a niche product - their phones are facing lots of competition. Plenty of great alternatives to Apple products and the only reason they appear to have a "Closed Empire" is they have a very strong marketing arm and brand recognition, which, the latter is starting to erode.

    Shouldn't be surprised really with the flow of these discussions -- all the flight simulator forums pretty much follow the same pattern - The producing company doesn't know how to program, they obviously do not know how to fly(drive a train), make Air Traffic Control systems(Signalling systems), provide realistic passenger systems, and never fix anything (but when they do, they break more than they fix), they don't care or listen to their customers and finally - it is a game and not a simulation -
     
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  23. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Any alternatives for the majority of the playerbase (console players)?
     
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  24. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    No but we do always have the choice to buy a powerful gaming PC and open up that world of opportunity. Expensive business though, I’m sticking with TSW on PS5, which is pricey enough without having all those extra choices a PC would offer.
     
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  25. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, buy a PC... I know, PC master-race et al, but it IS a solution
     
  26. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    An alternative in terms of train games on console that console players can buy....

    Sure anyone can buy a pc, but they aren't exactly cheap. Ever wonder why Consoles usually make up the majority of a playerbase in most games?

    Not really much of a solution either to spend all that money just to play a few additional games
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
  27. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Because they plug into a telly and some people prefer to play on a 56" screen than a 27" or smaller? And that for the money a PS5 will run it at 4K 60fps on that big screen
    (Personally I haven't owned a console since the mid noughties, mainly because the person I was in a relationship with at the time didn't want one on the main telly and claimed to get motion sickness even being in the next room with games on a TV...
    But anyway, you can pick up a PC that runs TSW in some fashion for about £100 more than you would a PS5 bundle. Difference is the PC will lag behind, but then I can do so much more on that PC than play those games so it's a tradeoff
    My 8 year old Core i7 with 32Gb RAM and an 8Gb RX580 runs it perfectly fine for me, whilst I also watch YouTube, chat on here and run whatsapp all on dual monitors. I can also play things like RailRoute or hop into the editor on TSC and make scenarios that break... Until a PS5 can do that, you can keep it)
     
  28. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Please. A PC that will run TSW in 4k at 60 will cost at minimum $1200 (perhaps a bit less if you build your own, but the prices of 3d cards are still brutal even if they've come down a smidge from the peak).
     
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  29. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

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    Xbox also has a full browser so you can use youtube, whatsapp (web app) and other stuff.

    Its mostly just the price difference for 4k60 capability of around 800€.
    So console clearly wins for most people especially since its easy to setup and you dont need to worry about stuff like selecting the right GPU, setting your RAM timings and working with Windows.Its plug and play. Thats what most people want.

    Actually, for most people even setting up a console is to much and so they only play mobile games with their smartphone. Thats actually the biggest market when it comes to gaming.

    Today, if you are PC only you are a dinosaur.
    If you play Consol you are a hardcore gamer
    And if you are mobile only you are the average casual gamer.
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
  30. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but that’s honestly one of the most ridiculous things I’ve heard.

    PC will always be the no.1 choice for hardcore gamers, simply because of its flexibility and modding opportunities. Not to mention third party external controller support.
     
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  31. 66% of the gaming industry is held by pc players in 2022. The majority if you do the maths. As it's been for as long as I can remember.

    Just wanted to add that little fact.
     
  32. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    You can watch youtube on a xbox and ps5 as well. Heck, I have Disney Plus, Hbo Max and Paramount Plus and when and I use my xbox to watch shows or movies. Also xbox does have a browser (Microsoft Edge) so you can browse online as well.

    Fact is that consoles are just more accessible than a pc frankly. I do have a gaming laptop but I mostly use that for college to play OMSI 2 and World Of Subways 4. But consoles are just more accessible
     
    Last edited: Jun 20, 2022
  33. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Where did you get these numbers from?
     
  34. gazz292

    gazz292 Well-Known Member

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    console = hardcore gamer.... maybe gamer as in FPS games,

    hardcore sim user = PC.

    i'd love to see someone connect a console to a real dashboard from a bus, plus the ticket machine and IBIS unit having both the buttons and LCD's, along with all the lights and gauges on the dashboard working, also the coin changer, bus steering wheel with force feedback and full 6 turns lock to lock and the pedals (which are the real items... air foot brake etc)
    and of course TrackIr so your view on the monitors changes as you move your head, so you can look out the side windows without pressing any buttons on a 'controller'

    When a console can do all that... whilst running Omsi or LOTUS, i may think about moving my PS5 from the bedroom,
    Which is where one of my PC's lives anyway.... in a media case, sat under my dolby atmos 7.1 channel AV amp, so both the PS5 and PC run on the same 55 inch 4K freesync TV.
     
  35. Appeared on my news feed yesterday. Ign or something like that.
     
  36. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    That is complete twaddle to be honest. Trying to pigeon hole people based on their choice of hardware is silly!
     
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  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I said "whilst" as in I can do all those things simultaneously without breaking gameplay
    I know you can do those things individually on an xbox, but not (no my knowledge) at the same time

    Not all players are interested in 4K @ 60fps. Some of us just want to drive trains

    You don't need to do any of those things to game on PC. I've worked as a hardware and network engineer since the late 90s and unless you really need to push your hardware to the limits or want to run everything at 4k 60fps there are very much easier ways of playing and running games on PC with very little setup by the user

    Again, most people want to "plug in and go" and I doubt this is beyond the means of many, but they don't want to necessarily do more than simply plugging it in. Less a case of technical lack and more a case of "I don't want to have to learn it so I can't be bothered to do it" (ie slight laziness).
    And yes there's a larger amount of "gamers" on their phones, but then that's because phones are ubiquitous and a lot of people will upgrade these things out of hand whereas they're loathe to spend £500 on a box that sits in their living room and takes up the main TV (or allow their kids (young or grown) to do so). Not sure that counts as "hardcore gamers play more on console" unless all those e-sports teams playing clash royale etc don't count as hardcore?
     
  38. SonicScott91

    SonicScott91 Well-Known Member

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    PC, Console, Mobile, Microwave… Whatever you pick to play with, nobody is more “hardcore” than anyone else.

    Just play whatever platform you enjoy, ignore all the comments over “who is better than who” - it really doesn’t matter as long as you’re having fun with your gaming.
     
    Last edited: Jun 21, 2022
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  39. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well there is quick resume on Xbox. So you can do something else without quitting the game that a player first played and then they can come back and play the game that they played again
     
  40. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Nah... not quite the same as doing three things over two screens without needing to do anything else
     

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