Tsw3 - The Cat Is Out Of The Bag & The Unofficial Tsw3 Speculation Thread

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by redrev1917, Jul 5, 2022.

  1. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    3,177
    Likes Received:
    9,161
    In regards to the One X/ Series S dispute, firstly I think people need to calm way down, secondly, the One X is more powerful than the S, although the S has additional hardware that will allow it to do things the One X cannot.

    The Series S was merely designed as a ‘look what we can do’ and is designed to be the economic approach to console gaming, the fact is that both Microsoft & Devs consider the series S to be a next gen console, there’s not a whole lot that can be done about that.

    Personally I did find the S to be pretty poor, and DTG had their doubts about where layering stood with the S back when London commuter was releasing, so where it stands going forward is probably being considered.

    What I do find somewhat amusing is how these gen 8 & console arguments always seem to take place on the PC boards…
     
    • Like Like x 3
  2. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    I guess that's what happens when there isn't a general discussion thread and what happens when pc players don't explain how last gen consoles or consoles in general is holding back the game and their experience playing the game especially when the game is developed on PC and scaled back for consoles...
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
    • Like Like x 3
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  3. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2018
    Messages:
    1,638
    Likes Received:
    2,844
    The only meaningfully informative posts in this entire thread are the original and JD's response. The rest is just users exciting themselves over nothing.

    Cheers
     
    • Like Like x 6
  4. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2020
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    1,371
    Perhaps I have other things to do or enjoy besides talking on this forum?

    I think it's been covered by other members, but it's basically the additional QA, testing, additional staff requirements to do this and so on.

    This time could be utilised on improvements and bringing the game/sim forward.
     
    Last edited: Jul 9, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  5. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    They can add new features if they wanted to now for instance for pc and current gen only if there are performance issues on last gen like they have already done. Again this argument is basically DTG aren't doing what I want them to do. I'd like to see new features but they can't please everyone since there are many things players want to see but DTG don't have to do them. If there are features you want to see, just make a suggestion. It may not come to fruition but at least dtg will know what you want.

    Even before they officially supported next gen with the upgrade to 4.26, updates didn't exactly come quick and if there was an update, that update could've caused even more issues as we've seen in the past. I guess not having to support last gen could mean quicker updates but as we've seen in the past, updates can take a while regardless of how many platforms are supported and may cause even more issues that may have to be fixed further down the line.

    Also there have been rumors of a potential ps5 pro and there may be a xbox series x refresh a few years down the line meaning if that were to happen they would have to test on those platforms as well so I don't think testing would just be shorter if that would happen in a few years time since they would have to test on those platforms as well
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
    • Like Like x 3
  6. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    3,160
    Likes Received:
    1,051
    So...like any other thread. Noted.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 17, 2021
    Messages:
    1,198
    Likes Received:
    1,721
    Nice to see someone making an argument that at least takes into account DTG's statements instead of ignoring them.

    It's indisputable logic that each separate version (I think Matt has said there are seven total) takes a certain number of people, and more people would be available for fewer systems. To this, I would say that DTG exists to make a profit, like all companies, and if it wasn't more profitable in the end to use those resources on that many separate systems, they wouldn't.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  8. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 5, 2020
    Messages:
    429
    Likes Received:
    912
    I would say there aren't many pc players playing true 4k due to the size of pc monitors. I think 4k monitors start around 32 inch so most will be playing 1080 or 2k. I play 2k with a screen refresh of 144hz on a 27inch monitor
     
    • Like Like x 2
  9. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2022
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    I absolutely can't confirm this. Playing MSFS on Xbox Series S and the performance is great and smooth.
    TSW also runs smooth on Xbox but did crash on my Series S numerouse times (Riese-Dresden) with out of memory.
     
    • Like Like x 4
  10. alexjjones6024

    alexjjones6024 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2020
    Messages:
    747
    Likes Received:
    1,371

    In all fairness, if they do an Xbox refresh, I cannot see how they would be willing to bring out a new console (potentially), when there is a struggle to get either of the Series S/X at this stage.

    I just want the best for this Sim, I know there has to be more to it that makes it a simulator (additional features etc).
     
    • Like Like x 2
  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,923
    Likes Received:
    23,937
    MSFS spends more time updating than playing! Then when it does update, third party add ons tend to get broken so you then have to wait for the author to play catch up. When you do eventually get flying, the default planes still climb like the Roci out of The Expanse and the save game more often than not fails to reload the FMC correctly. It's great for VFR low altitude flight but like TSW suffers from an over abundance of modern stuff rather than more vintage airliners.
     
  12. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    I want the best for the sim too. Heck it's been 5 years and we still don't have dynamic weather, a standard of improved night lighting, track noise, improved weather effects considering that it can be improved in the UE4 engine since modders seem to be able to do things dtg cant do and I can go on and on about features that should be in the game but ultimately it's up to dtg to make/add things that will sell and not necessarily what we want. Anything else is a bonus so to speak
     
    • Like Like x 4
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  13. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    I play MSFS on Xbox Series X and I haven't experienced a crash and the framerate is a solid 60 FPS. I have not experienced any of these issues on that game and I be doing long flights sometimes. I recently did a flight from Rio to Chicago with no problems using the Boeing 787 so I can't confirm these issues
     
    • Like Like x 3
  14. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    2,760
    Yeah, in the PC space 4k is a tiny minority of adoption. For high end PC gaming, 1440p and refresh rates of 120-170hz are the norm. FPS is desired over resolution for desktop gaming. Console gaming is where more people have 4k TVs, and where lower refresh rates tend to be more accepted as the tradeoff under the limitations of the HDMI standard pre-2.1

    I absolutely go with 1440p on my Series X to get the full benefits of running games which support it at 120.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    2,760
    Unlike us, most people playing MSFS on Series X are probably locked to the built-in 30FPS cap, because we don't all have our Series Xes hooked up to 1440p 120+Hz monitors with VRR enabled in order to unlock the uncapped framerate.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    2,760
    Crucially, and most relevant to TSW and a potential TSW3 - as we saw with The Matrix Awakens tech demo - the Series S can handle the Unreal Engine 5 features required for that to run. The One X simply can't.

    So yeah, fundamentally, if they decide to upgrade the engine, we're looking at a new SKU that's only available on 9th gen consoles, hence why it'd be reasonable to title it TSW3 for purposes of differentiating it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 20, 2021
    Messages:
    2,244
    Likes Received:
    3,736
    Dynamic weather is actually a working feature in tsw a long time. Dtg just never made the effort to bring the setup into the UI. Not sure why, there is plenty of wasted space for the needed bars in the menu.

    Currently you can use unreal unlocker with the weather tool 1.07, this way dynamic weather can be set up.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  18. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 13, 2019
    Messages:
    3,177
    Likes Received:
    9,161
    Agreed, the concern I can think of though it’s, let’s (hypothetically) say that Gen 8 is dropped, and whatever barriers people seem to think are caused by gen 8 are removed, it won’t be long until we end up in a similar situation with the S.

    DTG won’t be in a position to do much, other than to release dumbed down DLC’s for the S.

    I think what everyone needs to come to terms with, is that the platforms with more power are going to get a better experience, which should be common sense.

    We’ve seen routes like LBN & DRA, both of which are pretty intensive routes, and both of which have restricted versions for gen 8. I think routes that are larger in scope aren’t being held back by power, but simply DTG’s ability to develop such routes.

    Maybe DTG won’t drop gen 8, but simply start releasing some DLC that is only available for Gen 9 & PC, as I do think it’s weird that we have a huge lack of loco DLC’s at the moment, and I do suspect that this might have something to do with gen 8 (ie the 700 for BML would be an issue for DTG, considering their stance on layering for gen 8).

    In any case who knows what DTG will decide on, personally I don’t think they will drop gen 8 yet, the factors that play into content scope are much more numerous than just hardware.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  19. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2018
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    Hardware is not the guilty one here. Consoles also run MSFS, which is loading 100 times more graphical content and complex cockpit gauges than TSW2 does. In addition to that it has live weather, live traffic and ATC. And they can run game without exploding. This weekend they have released the SU10 beta which runs an improved DX12 core. Performance results are simply amazing both in PC and in consoles.

    We can´t still live in 1985 when that fact is on the table. Statu Quo has changed with MSFS, even if people is not willing to accept it. Either developers adapt to new standards or they stay on their own path. For me, as end user, it´s hard to load a TSW2 and see how my system strugles to render 3km ahead with aged graphics quality while it can render 30km ahead over a photogrametry city in HDR with nowadays graphics quality and still with good performance and no stutters nor hitching.

    TSW concept is not bad at all. It´s an amazing train simulator indeed. But they seriously need to park current Unreal and move a step forward or directly move to another engine which better supports open world and heavy graphics because a train simulator like this one needs that if they want to produce quality routes and content.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
    • Like Like x 6
  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    If it's just included in a few scenarios, then it's not a standard feature
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. tsw2

    tsw2 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 31, 2022
    Messages:
    964
    Likes Received:
    1,934
    Frequent updates are great. MSFS is great IFR and VFR if you use 3rd party planes or the better default ones.
    No problem with updates to addons if you buy in the Marketplace store and if you dont then its not the fault of MS/Asobo if 3rd party developers need time to update. The sim will of course get updates regularely and 3rd party developers will have to deal with it.
    Most people prefer modern stuff thats why DTG and ASOBO focus on modern stuff in their sims. They do market research. I you prefer old stuff thats of course another topic. YOu will soon get the A310 for free in payware quality so no need to complain i guess.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2020
    Messages:
    6,567
    Likes Received:
    10,793
    I just have a Samsung 4K TV....
     
    • Like Like x 1
  23. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,923
    Likes Received:
    23,937
    Not wanting to turn this into Avsim but...
    The FBW A320 was adopted for the Marketplace (free of charge) but has never been updated. It now locks up the sim if you try and use it. So if you want to use the FBW bird then it's back to using the latest version from the developer. (But the obsolete one remains on the Marketplace for the unwary to download).

    Previous versions of FS, specifically FS9 and FSX, never had this leapfrog effect with add ons being broken by core updates.

    And yes I have seen about the A310 and looking forward to trying it, though I would prefer a DC10 or Tristar.
     
  24. Mitchellman151

    Mitchellman151 Member

    Joined:
    Jun 13, 2021
    Messages:
    46
    Likes Received:
    72
    plus now gen 9 consoles are starting to actually be available to buy from shops/amazon etc compared to a year ago when they were out of stock constantly and with scalpers putting the prices up to ridiculous amounts, like all games the time will come where gen 9 is the minimum requirement but i don't think we are there just yet
     
    • Like Like x 2
  25. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    2,760
    Well, if you're getting 60 then I assume you are either on a flashy new HDMI 2.1 TV or are running your Series X on a lower output resolution to be able to enable VRR to turn off the 30FPS cap. (Be aware, most monitor OSDs will report double the actual FPS when running MSFS, like mine claims 90-120 when actually it's running at 45-60 with VRR turned on, it's a quirk of how the hardware picks it up)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  26. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    2,760
    And I am sure if DTG could afford the servers to host two petabytes of that kind of data (which remember, is comparatively much lower detail than the handcrafted TSW2 environments, you're mostly viewing it from thousands of feet up, where it looks just fine, not the blurry mess much of it becomes up close in a helicopter parked in the drive of your house) this would be a very different game.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  27. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    2,760
    Honestly it always surprised me that this wasn't the default way weather was set up, with it only going to your specific selections if you actually toggled them in the weather menus. It's there in the engine.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  28. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 8, 2016
    Messages:
    1,011
    Likes Received:
    2,103
    This is true, I just grabbed a Series X at RRP from Amazon with relative ease.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  29. Cyclone

    Cyclone Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    3,160
    Likes Received:
    1,051
    If they do something PC-exclusive, it would be in TSC. Just saying.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  30. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2018
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    We don´t need the whole world in TSW, and I didn´t say that either, mainly because there is nowhere to go unless a track exists in real life, which is different in MSFS as you can fly everywhere, even over the ocean. We don´t even need satellite textures. Routes can be still handcrafted, offline and local to user as they currently are. What TSW needs is just a proper and up to date engine able to handle heavy graphics and dense areas and a DX12 core, not that Unreal engine that still lacks oxygen when loading an average map tile with some trains inside and still works with a more than 10 years old DX11.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
    • Like Like x 3
  31. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    1,342
    UE5 specifically probably would, but we don't even know that's what they're doing. They could upgrade UE4 yet again, that could almost certainly be done without dropping older consoles. There's other stuff they could upgrade like Simugraph that likely wouldn't force them to abandon last gen either. Hell, it's DTG's game, there's no law saying they need to do a core engine upgrade. They could literally just make a new version where the only difference is better night lighting as well as funnel and/or wheel sparks, but otherwise is on 4.26 like it is currently.

    You could argue that's too minor, and that it wouldn't warrant a bigger number on its own sure. But at the end of the day DTG can do whatever it wants, there's no law stating that they have to X or Y for a numbered sequel. Nothing says TSW3 has to be a massive upgrade, people just assume it's gonna be, which is overly optimistic if you ask me. Granted I don't think it's gonna be literally just a lighting upgrade mind you, but I do doubt it's gonna be the big shift people have hyped themselves up for.
     
  32. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,701
    Likes Received:
    4,370
    But there is no newer version even available. I think there is UE 4.27, but that one only has some theatrical features. So nothing that could be helpfull for TSW at all. So I guess, whatever TSW3 is, it's not a big engine update. But maybe a big core update with new features. We already know about sparks and lighting. And maybe some other features which has been mentioned in this thread (anything from weather system change, track noise, dispatcher improvements to LD and SP 2.0. Or non of that at all. "Just" a route bundle.)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  33. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2018
    Messages:
    956
    Likes Received:
    1,694
    UE5 could be more than enough, considering that they can´t throw to trash all the work done based on previous UE (let´s be practical). But many interesting things can be done with it and honestly... visual quality is miles ahead of what we have now. See the fan made tech demos below. Many things are photorealistic but come on... Do you imagine such landscapes in game? And there´s no need to worry about sky, light and shadows again. If it has good performance on large scenes and does not suffer the tile loading weakness UE4 has that´s all we need.



    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jul 10, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  34. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 4, 2020
    Messages:
    1,036
    Likes Received:
    1,342
    How does it only having minor changes invalidate it? It's a newer version of UE4, a minor one for sure. But if DTG are going though the effort to do a new game/major core update they might decide to upgrade to the latest version while they're at it. I doubt they'll do it given DTG's previous statements on the matter, but I consider it just as plausible as them going to Unreal 5 at this point.
     
  35. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 13, 2018
    Messages:
    1,315
    Likes Received:
    2,392
    A study level Airbus A310 no less. As a console Flight Sim player, this has me very happy. I love the A320 but the default one is lacking once you get used to it. I'm still hoping WASIM implementation works on console so PMDG and others will bring what is PC only aircraft to console, too.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  36. Willowrpe

    Willowrpe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2021
    Messages:
    364
    Likes Received:
    379
    It maybe a lot of work needs to be done on the core to make it more reliable and perhaps make it easier to fix bugs because how the game is now its rife with bugs that they dont seem able to fix or at least takes a lot of time to fix and its not sustainable in the long run
     
  37. jackthom

    jackthom Active Member

    Joined:
    Aug 22, 2020
    Messages:
    285
    Likes Received:
    145
    Thanks I didn’t realise that could be done so easily. Some of the signature videos are amusing the first couple of times and then……….
     
  38. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    2,760
    It's a system level setting, which is useful on HDMI 2.0 screens for playing around with things like mixing HDR and high framerates together.
    If you're using an HDMI 2.1 cable it won't matter much if your monitor is "older" as you describe, since the port on the other end of the cable will be HDMI 2.0 and it'll be treating the cable as a 2.0 one. The first monitors capable of receiving a 2.1 signal didn't come out until 2021.

    To get the uncapped mode in MSFS you need a screen capable of at least 120Hz (Probably why it won't work for you), which supports VRR, and then with VRR enabled the framerate in MSFS unlocks and you can generally get somewhere between 45 and 60FPS, which the VRR compensates for by matching your refresh rate to the game's output FPS. It's a way smoother experience than the 30FPS cap, but it takes specific display tech to get it running.
    Also as I stated before, the OSD of the monitor reports the FPS as double what it actually is, so when it tells me 97FPS cruising over the Pennines in uncapped mode, that's actually about 48fps.
    Uncapped FPS in MSFS on XBox would look like an absolute mess of dropped frames and tearing if you tried it on a 60Hz display without VRR, which is why it's not a default option ingame and only enables automatically if you have set up your hardware correctly, since if it detects that it knows it can work.
     
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  39. pipanminuta#9703

    pipanminuta#9703 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 13, 2021
    Messages:
    322
    Likes Received:
    397
    Hmm interesting
     
  40. shimarin

    shimarin Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2022
    Messages:
    135
    Likes Received:
    126
    Last edited: Jul 11, 2022
    • Like Like x 4
  41. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,989
    Likes Received:
    3,637
    Today rivet games announced sparks for the upcoming class 484, something of which referred to in the TSW3 leaked messages
     
    • Like Like x 8
  42. Fori

    Fori New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    5
    Please don't destroy my achievements again.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  43. fabristunt

    fabristunt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 23, 2019
    Messages:
    637
    Likes Received:
    1,220
    I hope TSW3 comes out for PlayStation 2, haven't touched my console in more than a decade!
     
    • Like Like x 7
  44. rjeeves#3580

    rjeeves#3580 Active Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2020
    Messages:
    172
    Likes Received:
    215
    I had heard an Commodore A500 version is on the cards. Can't remember how many floppy disks it will be on though.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  45. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,989
    Likes Received:
    3,637
    I need to get looking for my DSi, don’t want to leave it until release date.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  46. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    Anyone know if it will run on a speccy +2? Or will I need an external floppy disk drive?
     
    • Like Like x 1
  47. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,323
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    tsw3.png
     
    • Like Like x 13
  48. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2019
    Messages:
    4,369
    Likes Received:
    7,214
    You shouldn't joke, their might be another borderline obsolete userbase thrown in the mix to cause more hassle
     
  49. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    Perhaps we are all barking up the wrong tree and TSW3 will be a pay to win mobile phone game.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  50. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,323
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    That would be amazing haha, there are facebook games like that with rail themes: TrainStation is a particularly good one!
     
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page