150 Adjustment Confirmed By Jasper On Roadmap Stream Query

How long has has the 150 been released i wouldn't be thanking them
It should of been fixed before release or just after not months down the line
And now you have caused people on ps to have broken sea don't you test

 

That's why I have made this post as they needed a kick up the LOVE!!

I'm trying to get them to turn this around as they have EVERYTHING that is needed to make this right. The tools, the references, sounds, physics info (DTG) and there is plenty of drivers eye views of the route for reference, so that it can be improved to the standard it requires and that we deserve as customers of this product.

DTG are far too lax about it and dont step on and don't manage their 3rd party developers. Hence why on Glassdoor, their current and ex staff have had bad experiences when working for DTG..

I'm sick of all this too buddy.

 

Think Rivet forget some of us have paid for this, which some of us have spent hours at work to get. You are right, they have everything, and if they don't fix it, and keep releasing sub-par products they won't have much of a business because people will not buy there stuff and also because they know it won't be fixed.

 

Jasper_Rivet Will all due respect, I think you guys really need to look and listen at this video

Your version of the Class 150 sounds very poor in comparison. As mentioned, there’s a distinct lack of revving going on upon departure, lack of brake rub sounds, and for for strange reason, why do the engine idle sounds, sound faster when the reverser is in neutral/off vs forward? The horn is also very, very quiet in the cab.

You guys really shouldn’t have chosen the Class 150 if you don’t know how it sounds and behaves in real life.

 

Thank you for joining the thread londonmidland , I really need this to be broadcast before they send it off ot DTG for QA etc.

Jasper_Rivet please do the honour and take note, your Dev team can really make the current 150 into a fantastic piece of kit. Can you please forward the above video on to the dev team as this shows each rev and how it should behave!!

 

I have suggested this a thousand times. They’ve got their sounds…. There are demo videos on YouTube that both me and Alex have sent links to numerous times.

 

Its been said time and time again that they cant just lift sounds from YouTube, for 2 main reasons one the sound recording is always sufficient quality and secondly due to copy right.

 

I think the reference to the demos is to show what the officially acquired sounds should, erm, sound like when mixed correctly, not to lift and put in the game.

 

Just my opinion on what will happen - The physics may improve slightly, but not expecting much more than that.

The sounds themselves will remain as dreadful as they currently are. Jasper even said that they have no intentions of fixing it.

So all in all, the 150 will still remain a write-off for me.

 

I am remaining hopeful as myself and Alex have sent them a shed load of info on what needs to be done to improve this. [REMOVED - Alex] - Alex and myself have actually done most of the work ourselves when it comes to research, reference material and knowledge. All they have to do is tweak a few things in the actual game. [REMOVED - Alex]

 

Bit harsh, so if they fail you are saying that Jasper has the IQ less than or equal to a chimp

I have had a few chats with jasper over the years on message and he's a good guy. Amazing really he does all the streams late at night when he doesn't have too... could just say hes busy like skyhook did with their live stream

Rivet have much room for improvement that is for sure but saying he is a chimp if they don't achieve it is a bit much... in my opinion

 

I never said anyone was a chimp !!!

I said it was an easy fix that a chimp could do. So if they don’t fix it, it’ll be through lack of effort not because it’s too difficult for them.

I’d never call anyone a chimp.

 

I never said to lift sounds from YouTube. I meant that they can use the sounds there as a reference ( to see if what they’ve implemented is lifelike or not. Not to actually extract the actual sounds.

 

Ahh, so you’re saying it should take 8 months or more for a simple fix such as ‘throttle disabled on brake step 1’. Which was incorrect in the first place, to be rectified to a standard that it should have been BEFORE release if adequate research had done properly in the first place?

8 months to address issues - That is a sign of a developer that cares about their work, their community and wants to go above and beyond then is it? Pardon me for expecting a product that acts a bit like it does in real life.

if you want to talk about being disrespectful, how about us, the PAYING customer. Cheated out of our hard earned cash for a product that is significantly sub standard and then left alone - talk about insults.

Plus I have not insulted any one person directly either.

 

You were not cheated unless they told you it was working then you found out it wasn't. If you spend your money based on your own theory that everything is working then maybe you cheated yourself?

No, you insulted the whole company, which is made up of people. Just because you didn't insult an individual doesn't mean you were not insulting

It boggles the mind that someone who is a "multi-award winning teacher" can make such basic mistakes in the language they use to convey a point

 

They advertised ‘true to life physics’ and so we expected this. If you bought a brand new car, that was advertised has having working air conditioning and it wasn’t, would you not take it back to get rectified?

I made no mistake - the interpretation from others is where the mistake occurred. I have not been nasty to Jasper, his name wasn’t even mentioned, as on a personal level I have no gripe with him individually. Just as a company in general is where I have the beef. As consumers we are entitled to make a complaint if we are not satisfied with the work that has been carried out.

Sorry but some things ARE an easy and simple fix. A member of DTG themselves have already communicated this with me in the past. Granted a lot of things take hours upon hours. I am well aware of this. But the sorts of errors that need addressing on this particular unit are mainly small changes involved, which is why I said that if they weren’t fixed, it clearly displays lack of care for the customer by the company. Swapping over a brake rub sound, altering the acceleration profile, throttle activation in Brake Step 1, Really basic errors that Armstrong Powerhouse would have fixed within a week.

 

Loreal advertises that I'll have lustrous shiny hair... I'd love to see them provide a balding welsh git with it. Adverts are almost always misleading, and a faulty system is different to a computer game. Don't remember Rivet stating it would have "true to life physics" either

Jasper works for a company which you insulted. If I insulted all piano teachers as jumped up twaddle peddling anal retentive trouser snakes I'm sure you'd rightfully deduce that you, being a piano teacher, are included in that insult, so my comment stands.
You are indeed entitled to an opinion, it's when you directly insult a group of people it may be taken as "a step too far"

If swapping the sound file is all it was, fine
Accelleration profile means rebuilding the entire timetable
Throttle activation would not

so two out of three may be easier rather than harder, but still no reason to insult everyone. involved, any more than someone who charges £80 an hour may want to look at the failings in his own output (I've noticed a few errors you might want to look into. Should take five minutes to fix them for a competent dev)

Again with the AP comparrison. I thought it had been proven they may make decent TSC stuff but are basically a very bad business model for anything else. If AP had made the IoW they would make sure you needed all the other AP routes and assets to even run a scenario. You may have £500 spare to run a timetable, luckily Rivet don't make you pay out that way

 

It's amazing how seemingly you are deluded to the fact that the product was acceptable on release. Then again, just because you are a regular poster on this forum, your thoughts are more important than any one else.

If there is work in progress to improve the physics of the DMU, why would you not just process the full fixes and try to remove any further work that is required in the future? It just seems like common sense to focus on improvements now, especially that there is a long waiting time on fixes for Rivets currently released DLC.

All in all, wouldn't you rather have a reputation for getting things right, than continuously release products and have a reduced revenue because of said reputation.

DTG Alex Hello, as this was my initial post, I would like you to raise this to your management team as I think the message of consistency is failing to be broadcast across the board and to your 3rd party developers.. I have asked Jasper below (again).

Jasper_Rivet please get the Devs to fix the sounds. Just make it right for us and then everyone is happy.

 

As I have always said, this unit has the potential to be incredible. It looks absolutely stunning but if people do not complain and campaign to get this fixed, it’ll just be left forever.

OK, yes point taken about the insulting of a company - for which I do sincerely apologise. I get your point and yes ok, I will hold my hands up and say that I am sorry. This was not my intention to insult a whole company per say, but I do stand by my original point that it shouldn’t take 8 months to address fixes and that we are entitled to voice our frustrations. I sincerely apologise to anyone I may have offended with the remark about ‘easy fix’ etc .. I will be more careful about how I word my feedback in the future.

I own a lot of AP products, I pay for the unit, the scenario is an optional bonus. Having the other products is only essential if you want to run the scenarios. I buy it for the loco / unit and then use quick drive or create my own scenarios. So this is not really a big issue for me. You don’t really *have* to own the rest so it’s not a fair argument.

I have mentioned before, that I used to edit and tweak lots from TSC and more than happy to help out where I can, if only I was allowed access to the physics editors etc

 

No idea where I have said it's acceptable. I was one of the people decrying the 150s lack of comparable physics and that it was way off on day one the same as yourself and Mr Hawkins, difference is I tend not to include groups of people in my insults rather aiming them (and my criticism) directly once we know who actually did that. Unfortunately it's off the mark to include "Rivet" because we don't even know how many that group is, let alone who they are

Ah, no. I am not more important than anyone (outside of DTG) on this forum, though you're right I do spend a lot of time here, hence my footer.

Oh I agree with you, but then I am not a member of DTG or Rivet so can only state my preference. It makes no difference to what they actually DO (obviously else they would have responded on day one with all the people saying how rubbish the physics are along with the other issues)

Generally, I think Rivet's second pass on the IoW is likely to be more successful than their first, but if there's one thing I've learned with DTG, RIvet and others (just trains being one of them), it's that they're all still learning, so it's very unlikely we will get what we think of as a "finished product". Unfortunately they seem set on what they want to do rather than what we might wish.

Still doesn't mean I'd sling mud on a public forum...

 

Absolutely, I've joined you in that in the past. It's totally annoying that they'd massacred one of the better (and more widely used) British units. My hope is they can fix it and then we can use it all over the place. Saves DTG having to rebuild it every time like they do with electrostars

You pay for the scenarios too, they're literally included in the software package you download. Just because you personally feel you're only paying for the assets is your view. Other people feel differently

I tend not to critique the work of those who don't get paid for what they do... I'm sure your work is more than adequate

 

Simple dont want to spend use dtg stock very simple and he was not talking about ap business model

 

This is correct, I was referring more about how prompt they are when fixes or patches need to be updated / released.

Another thing I have noticed about AP is that if they introduce a new feature such as variable clag factor, they update almost their entire range with that new feature a lot of the time. ( Also they update all their packs for no extra charge ) They really have such a high quality focus on quality and customer satisfaction. Yes it costs money to buy all their packs, but as you say, there is the default DTG stock for those who do not wish to spend any money.

My issue, is for those of us to do pay that extra money….it would be nice to actually get a product that drives realistically. With the 150 this was not the case at all. It has EMU performance off the line for one thing. Should have been fixed within a few weeks. Not ignored. That’s where they are very different to AP ( other than the fact that AP get it right in the first place ). Do rivet actually care about their customer at all ? Because I have seen no evidence of this so far.

 

Just for those that may not have seen jaspers reply about WCL. Shame the sea at iow dropped the day after he asked what’s broke….

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/th...ive-feedback-thread.47130/page-14#post-504731

 

Oh I saw it and it has bugger all to do with sounds. It's just impossible to get this side of the product sorted. Physics, big woop! However, sounds need to sound like a 150. Why has a 6 year old (in-game) Class 166 got attention but an 8 month old 150 just getting 50%..?

 

AP supply scenarios with their asset packs and EPs. you paid for those scenarios as much as you pay for the pack. To use those scenarios as intended you need to buy more asset packs and EPs which come with more scenarios.
Yes you can make your own scenarios etc, but then you're not using what you've paid for. To use an analogy from earlier today you wouldn't buy a car with air conditioning and then expect to pay for every slat on the vent to be inserted by hand or have to change the unit out yourself for an old man that blows on you with a straw...

I am more than aware that they weren't talking about business model, they were cherry picking their own agenda and espousing this as the best of all worlds, which just misses out so much context as to be nonsense.
And as Mr Hawinks has said above, AP ALWAYS update their pack with the new features, but he left out that they also update all their packs when a new DLC comes out as a requirement for any other affected DLC, so if you update to get say new brake sounds, all your supplied scenarios suddenly need another £25 of requirements...

You should note I am NOT saying that Rivet shouldn't be fixing their rubbish assets, I think they should have worked immediately but as Jasper has said they've not even been ON a 150 (which is odd).

 

166 was done by DTG pres crew. 150 is done by Rivet.

 

Should be the same process, regardless of who produces it. The standard needs to be streamlined across the board and Rivet should be applying this to the 150.

Jasper will be seeing all this through his feed anyway. Imagine, today is another 24 hours whereby work could have been done on the sounds but instead, no comment from the front man..

How do you forum members not understand that this is crucial time???

 

I think it's because I said something positive?

 

Well we know now that NEW DLC produced by 3rd parties is being vetted by the pres crew. Not sure if that's being retro applied to old DLC, and I can see that would cause problems

 

It seems strange to create a DLC for something which you know very little about/haven’t experienced in real life. This is clearly reflected in game with the poor sounds and physics.

It seems like they just modelled the Class 150 ‘for the hell of it’

 

One question what do you want them to do?
Use dtg stock WHY would why do that
Why would a company not use their own stock and packs
If you buy 3rd partyware expect to need other stock
Don't buy the likes of the 37 if you have none of the other stock or routes around that area

 

Something like that. Someone somewhere decided to make the route or locality and then didn't do the job right. I think they were also going to do the 43 in the old GWR but couldn't get the license

 

Hey! I take that as a personal insult. Well, I’m not Welsh but two out of three ain’t bad.

 

Work as intended

I don't, but I also don't want them to CHANGE when I update the DLC to incorporate new features only to find I now don't have half the trains in the scenario including those intended to block or slow my path

Why would a company change all their packs after the fact to make them require over £150 worth of stuff or even remove required DLC off sale orphaning scenarios, or not change existing scenarios which use assets DTG USED to sell but no longer do?

I have no problem with requirements. It's the changing of the landscape over time. It's not like I can go and download the version of DLC I bought 18 months ago either so I cannot physically obtain what I bought, only the updated version with more requirements.

 

I am all three. Balding (from my father's side), Welsh (Well, being from Cardiff is kind of Welsh even if we're called English by those people up in the Valleys or Up North) and a complete git (see my previous posts...)

 

I think it is possible and justifiable to make negative comments about a company as an entity without necessarily maligning any particular person or people that work for them. I’m sure that the developers work damned hard for their money and Jasper puts up a brave face as the public face of the company. If the decision makers or bean counters decide though that development costs have gone far enough and they must stop and go on to the next profit making project and draw a line under an already released product, then there’s not a lot they can do. In this case the company needs complaining about, and maybe even insulting, but it doesn’t mean that (most of) the individuals that work for it are being insulted. I’ve certainly moaned about companies I have worked for in the past for decisions made without in any way insulting my colleagues.

 

Why would they want one of there previous packs to not use there stock which they are trying to sell
Iy would attract sales simples

 

I left WCL behind long ago. While Class 150s are one of my favourite multiple units in the UK and I'm very familiar with them (they're the only trains that run to my local station), I do not care for the route itself or the time period. Maybe if there was a Valenta HST I'd be more interested in the route, but I don't see myself returning to this route after having put maybe three hours into it when it first came out. I can't see this adjustment being anything substantial.

I can only see the 150 being "truly" fixed if DTG decide to make their own version of it for another route and promptly throw the Rivet one into the bin. And then we'd have to wait for eternity for them to replace Rivet's 150 with their own on WCL like the situation with the two different 377s.

 

Because its completely unethical thats why.

Imagine buying a TV then finding your remote no longer works the day they bring out an update remote and the only way to get your TV to work in the same manner as when you purchased it would be by buying the new remote. Im sure if that happened you wouldnt shrug your shoulders and say well its fine because they are trying to attract sales.

 

Tbh mate, I'd buy a universal remote. Would have been more useful using something that cannot be replaced

Anyway, let's keep focusing on getting Rivet to improve this dearly beloved loco!

Still not seeing any replies from Jasper_Rivet

 

He last replied on Friday, do you really think its unacceptable that he doesnt provide an update every working day?

 

Jasper hasn’t even replied to say ‘thank you for the hard work that we should have done in the first place and sending us all this valuable reference material ‘. No thank you what so ever, not even bothered to write a short reply. It’s been 3 days !!!

 

2 of which was the weekend, you might answer work emails 7 days a week but some people have a work life balance. And who knows perhaps he's on annual leave?

 

Until I get what is required, no. I want fixes that relate to what I paid for and essentially mis-sold. Until I get clarity that they have used my referenced material to fix their AP sounds, I will keep fighting. Seems you don't care anyway, just coming here to continually criticise me for something that ultimately alot of people want and expect.

 

I’d be surprised if he hasn’t blocked the pair of you.

I love the Class 150 IRL, and I very much disagree with the way Rivet have developed it.

The attitude the two of you are displaying however, is frankly disgusting.

 

Oh I am sorry for hurting your feelings, please clarify how it is disgusting. Quite the contrary, take it from our perspective, it should NEVER have been released like that.

Don't belittle me for something I am passionate about.

 

The irony.