Spirit Of Steam - Is It Now Worth It?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by OldVern, Jul 17, 2022.

  1. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    One new loco can make all the difference, I can tell you I would be a million times more interested in London - Brighton if we got a Class 700 instead. The 377 doesn't do anything for me when I've already got it with East Coastway, and also got the rather similar 375 with Southeastern.
     
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  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately the owners of the 700 were picky about licensing for a while. The unit is now in TSC though so there's hope yet
     
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  3. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I get that, of course. But if I go back to the TSC version, there are loco- hauled services, freight runs and the " Brighton Belle " in addition to the slam- door trains. Of course, much of the variety was added after the initial release. I realize that the time period is different, but the fact remains that DTG do not exploit the stock potential of most of their routes after launch, leaving them rather stale and unchanging.
    Diesel legends really freshened up GWE. It would have been better with some cosmetic adjustments, but, all the same, it brought many of us back to an old route. This kind of dynamic approach should be happening more often.
     
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  4. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    See my posts about releasing "core units" that can then be used elsewhere and you'll see that I agree with you.
    The problem with simulators in general is that to be worth anything there has to be a fairly large library of assets and TSW doesn't have this, and unfortunately DTG doesn't seem to be working towards this either.
     
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  5. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    So where is the BR coaching stock crest, on the post 1956 maroon livery MK1's ? FAIL.
    It was never applied to the pre 1956 crimson & cream livery. Also never applied to pre-nationalisation coaching stock, in whatever BR livery.
    Slapdash school boy error.
     
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  6. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunate that even mixed rakes are still not possible in service mode. As you said a while back though, it really needs some ex-LMS coaching stock to bring it to life (as well as a heck of a lot more DLC lol).
     
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  7. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I have to say I have gone from buying anything and everything to now buying once every 3-4 if that now.
     
  8. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Why no freight workings for the Jubilee. The were reclassified 6P5F, in 1955. At least it would add some variety, to a pretty poor DLC.
     
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  9. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Why can't we add freight wagons to a Jubilee in the scenario planner. Seems pretty restrictive, although i have only used it once or twice before. I don't even do the scenarios, just pick a loco and service. I just tried a scanario something about Mersey sandbox. Starts off in a yard with one 8F and had to walk much too far to find a Jub. The blurb at begining says features both. Well put both close by the starting point, so the player can choose. The scenario planner itself is less than stellar, so much easier in TLC.
     
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  10. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    We need a better scenario planner…

    Strange though I still find myself being pulled back in, finally got a run with the 8F that goes a bit further thannSpeke to Ditton.
     
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  11. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Deffo Vern. Yup i am running it, with a great deal of frustration.
    Got on a Jub but the damn game will not let me out onto the ML.
    Supposed to be a sandbox do what you like scenario.
    What is the name of the one you were doing yesterday buddy ?
    Also found out, you can only pin the wagon brakes, full on or full off.
    Which is a load of tripe.
     
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  12. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Not on the game at the moment, it’s the third run in Journey mode, Branch Freight or something like that. You should be able to see it by opening up the Journey list which is the 2nd box down and it’s in the first section.

    Route was really pushing my PC in the heat, I have to add too, fans going flat out!
     
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  13. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks buddy, will go take a look :cool:
     
  14. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Cannot move the service, because some lemon put xp fitted wagons in the middle.
    Another schoolboy error, for anyone who knows anything at all about BR rail operations.
    So i just went for the ride.
    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  15. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Did you not let the brakes off underneath the carts? I thought they fixed it
     
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  16. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    They didn’t (yet) fix the incorrectly marshalled wagons, but they explained the workaround of releasing the brakes.
     
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  17. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Yes Mike you need to pull the strings on the bauxite wagons. Train is then unfitted.
     
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  18. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    No offence boys, but i want it done properly not ponce about with work arounds.
    That is directed at DTG, not you both. Just joined a passenger service at Lime St.
    Walked down the train to have a look at the MK1 interiors. Jumped off half way along to uncouple the Jub at the buffers, as instructed. Boarded again at the rear guards compartment. game asked me if i wanted to have the AI take over, which i confirmed. 30 seconds later the journey ended with a SPAD notice, hahahahahaha.
    Great AI logic and functionality.

    EDIT: Thanks Vern but i don't want to have to fiddle with workarounds, sorry buddy.
    Take 30 mins tops to correct that consist and put it back in the game. Better still give us editors, so we can do the job properly in the first place.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2022
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  19. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I agree Mike and it’s a disgrace that DTG put this out with all the fanfare and high fives yet apart from a few immediate fixes have not addressed the simpler issues such as this one. Either reorder the wagons in the consist or substitute so the whole train is either fitted or unfitted. Why does this cause so much difficulty for DTG, we are not (presumably) talking a massive recoding issue which could affect other aspects across the sim.

    As you say in TSC we could change that with the Scenario Editor or RW Tools in a couple of minutes.
     
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  20. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Those two things aren't related...
    The SPAD is due to another AI train (somewhere else) going past a red. Another bug not yet fixed
     
  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    There is another almost identical “Branch Freight” a few entries down the Journey list. This one is a fully fitted train but the path and weather are identical to the previous flawed one. Fairly straightforward then to run.

    Mind it’s a bit lazy on behalf of whoever compiled Journey mode to place two runs that are exactly the same so close in the roster. I’ve now passed the fuelling exercise but the next entry in Journey is still another freight working albeit a decent length from Edge Hill to Crewe. However it wouldn’t have hurt to mix and match a few runs with the Jubilee at the start of Journey mode for an all round better introduction to the pack.
     
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  22. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I find this true of most "journey" modes... Five of the same run but with different weather or set at night...
    Yes I realise that trains run to a schedule, and many of them are the same thing over and over but give me a "day in the life" type thing with depot moves, shunting or whatever!
     
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  23. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Agreed journey mode should just be called “same run, wet or night mode”
     
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  24. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Why would you have a rake of unfitted 16T mineral wagons, with XP fitted wagons in the same consist Vern. Just not logical or remotely realistic. The fitted wagons make up less than 25% of the wagons in that consist. So they are still restricted to 25mph empty and 30mph loaded. Not that the AI cares, it was running at line speed when i was riding the brake van. The games wagons and coaching stock, need max speed entries in the configs, as per Trainz. So that when they run in AI services, they are automatically restricted to the correct max speed for wagon\coach type.
     
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  25. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks Vern, i will have a look at that fitted run. Still haven't run end to end yet, i did notice the lack of white cast speed boards.
     
  26. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    The game doesn't seem to recognise anything other than line speed for much of the UK network. Several times I've done either freight or loco hauled passenger runs and still had line speed rather than VMAX as the indicated (and seemingly timed) speed. I usually stick to the consist allowable even if I only end up with a silver for being later than billed
     
  27. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    You can restrict individual services to set speeds in TSW. TSG used that feature to great effect to limit the G6 services to either 25km/h (shunting speed limit in Germany) or 80km/h (loco speed limit). The problem is that no one at DTG seems to consider actually using it.
     
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  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    And it's annoying and (I dread to say it) immersion breaking... Having the speed limit say 90 as you drive past a split limit which means you should be doing 60...
     
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  29. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    So only DTG can do it, not the end user. Is that what you are saying, buddy ?
     
  30. CrAzZyKiLLa

    CrAzZyKiLLa Well-Known Member

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    Personally SoS is one of the best DLC imo. Im eagerly awaiting fixes for the silent AI and some missing livery substitution in timetable mode on PC. Then this will 100% be worth it.
     
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  31. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    What is this creators club thingie. Never heard of it before, but just clicked on your link out of curiosity. Red (bauxite) mineral wagons look interesting.
     
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  32. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Pretty sure, yes. I wouldn’t know though as I’m on console.

    It’s DTG’s official online platform to share custom liveries or scenarios created with the livery designer or scenario planner. You can find in-game access to it in the lower left hand corner of the route selection menu.
     
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  33. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Thanks very much in regards, help with both questions Lamplight :cool:
     
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  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well I wouldn't say the best as personally I still rate NTP my favourite UK route (and the Dresden to Chemnitz for Germany). But it has potential if DTG follow through, fix the bugs, give us some more DLC and officially layer railtours on to the other UK routes with the stock. But just at the moment it seems they are in complete limbo, with nothing like that on the Roadmap.
     
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  35. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’m hoping the next roadmap has something decent, surprising, interesting and close to release on it as well as all the sweeping up
     
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  36. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Deleted - user error (possibly).

    Looks like the handbrake on the tender may be applied when you take over the train, albeit the usual scenario prompts do not include releasing it.

    Will test this a bit more.
     
    Last edited: Jul 20, 2022
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  37. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Little update, just made it into Crewe with the first long distance(ish) freight, so some further quick thoughts.

    1. Even with the tender handbrake correctly released, the 8F is struggling for power. Down to 1.5 MPH climbing up the 2.7% gradient off the Independent Lines into Gresty Lane.

    2. More wonky physics. Above 50 MPH 8F getting wheelslip in power with low cut off < 35% and moderate regulator. The whole point of getting up to speed is to bring the cutoff back as far as you can to conserve steam.

    3. Even though full control of firing isn't implemented yet (will it ever be?) can we please have HUD indicators for fire mass and temperature, boiler water level and coal/water remianing in the tender.

    4. Head out view needs tweaking - i.e. further out beyond the fly screen or allow the fly screen to be folded back. Have to drive in exterior view for decent vision of the route ahead.

    5. Freight trains need the proper train speed applying according to classification, not line speed.
     
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  38. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    No suspension animation, like in DRS. Thought this game engine was supposed to be the dogs doodahs.
    Fireman looks like he has never got his hands dirty, ever.
    Locomotive internal and external sounds less than satisfying.
    Just boring, didn't complete the run or bother to save it. Particularly as my given line speed at one point was 90mph.
    What !!! with that consist :(
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
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  39. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    That is, as you say, line speed. Maximum consist speed (Vmax) is very often much lower, especially with freight. (This is the sort of information which ought to be in the nonexistent manual)
     
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  40. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Having got stung by the 8F Journey scenario with the rogue SPAD (another one DTG need to fix) I switched to the Jubilee part of Journey mode.

    Initial impressions are much nicer loco. Easier to control and handle, balance the brakes. Sounds better too. I can see me spending a great deal f time on this one. Can certainly tell where the lion's share of loco development time went.
     
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  41. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    For me that's the information which should be on the HUD... It should only ever show the maximum permissible speed you can drive at, and all timings ought to align with that
     
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  42. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    I suspect that may be as they got the Jubilee recordings on the mainline and the 8F recordings on a heritage railway (and used the magic of editing to get the sounds for higher speeds).
     
  43. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    I prefer to do my steam loco driving in TSC, on the Wycombe Joint Line. With some really excellent steam loco models from Victory Works, Bossman and Caledonian Works.
    This SoS was a complete waste of money.
     
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  44. meridian#2659

    meridian#2659 Well-Known Member

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    I think currently the boiler is getting heated by the same coal mass all the time. Shovling doesnt do anything beside the animation.
     
  45. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The Jubilee is better than the 8F but still poor physics. Loaded up the NTP scenario off Creators Club last night from Man Vic to Leeds. It could barely make 10 MPH at the top of the 1 in 50 coming out of Victoria.
    Edit:
    I need to find a similar route in TSC with a 1 in 50 climb from a dead stand and see how the Bossman Jubilee compares there. Actually coming out of Bath towards Midford on the S&D should do it. The Jubilee like the 8F also far too easy to induce wheelslip on pulling away, even with dry rails.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2022
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  46. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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  47. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The other thing that's a bit disconcerting about the Jubilee is the exagerrated sideways shaking which I presume is supposed to be cab sway, even at low speed departing Man Vic. If you hand around on the footplate there's also a weird screeching/scraping sound, possibly from the tender, which combined with when the safety valves lift is dominating all the other sound effects. Ended up having to drive from exterior view.
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2022
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  48. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Okay took the Bossman Jubilee up the 1 in 50 out of Bath in TSC. Load 8 compared to Load 7 in TSW so a right side handicap. Also unable to fire the loco in the tunnels due to risk of blowback.

    With cut off set to 60% and regulator at 100% I was able to maintain 19 - 20 MPH on the climb. That's twice the speed that the TSW version could manage with a slightly lighter load. Were DTG so busy crunching numbers into Simugraph that they forgot to do a practical trial of how the same base model (Bossman) performed in their other sim to make a comparison?
     
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2022
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  49. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Have you checked that the figures you're getting from the Bossman version are accurate or just expecting that the other developer is right because they're not DTG?
    Comparing is great but only if comparing to reality
     
  50. Does anyone know how a steam train handles the grades in rl? Like West somerset?
     

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