Tsw 3 - An Insult To The Tsw Community

There is now a Q&A thread for TSW3 and I have asked the first and most important question.

As if to add insult to injury after the UK players getting the worst launch deal they have called the newest feature Training Center using the US spelling of Center instead of the more correct British spelling of Centre. There’s even a red line under Center every time I type it in this post.

I’ve asked why and I demand an answer.

 

As I understand it... The German pack only includes the new German route. Any other German DLC would have to be bought separately

In a way yes. I have zero interest in any of the routes in TSW3 per se, but in what the engine etc does I AM interested... (I only drive UK, don't like steam, already have SEHS, so I'll be paying the least money to get the core game and go from there)

My question on this is "how much are you being charged?"
Even if you do have to buy a route again that's £24.99, so if the cheapest option is £29.99 you get one new or reworked DLC, new weather, new UI, new lighting (route dependant), dynamic weather, TPWS functionality (route dependant) etc etc. A fiver for that sounds OK to me (other people's mileage will vary)

I don't see this as much different EXCEPT that in each case you pay more for the DLC because the base is packed with it (so £29.99 rather than £24.99). Difference for me is that to run any of the RH routes you needed to own the game separately.

 

Some of the children on this thread need a time out. Business is about making money and it seems the Sim business resembles a zero-sum problem, needing matrix algebra and operations analysis, complicated by the demands of a bunch of 5 year olds. In my case, having neither SEHS or SOS makes this a great deal. I just need to wait to see some feedback on system demands.

 

Well congratulations. I'm awarding you a gold star!!

But, seriously, don't you agree that the inclusion of dynamic weather, lighting upgrades etc. are at least partly a result of us " banging on " about these features ad nauseam?

( I just thank heaven that toilets don't seem to have appeared. I didn't join in that chorus. Nor do I give a rat's ass about sparks and flashing catenary, which I guess will show up. )

 

I admonished players for thinking they are entitled to a discount or standard lower price or compensation for a product that is technically a new product. They are not. DTG is not obliged to offer any discount whatsoever. You either buy at the price on offer or you don’t. No one is forcing anyone to buy TSW 3, especially at launch.

 

Sure. But I don't think that the Suggestion Box creates a contractual obligation!

 

The same as people have banged on about longer routes, high speed runs and route extensions? All of which they have in this release

All of which those same people are now complaining about because it wasn't the exact ones they wanted...
Or will have to pay for
Or will have to download again
Or might have to get the trophies again
Or might have to get the collectables again

 

It carries over anyway, so other than progress and that stuff, not much reason to keep TSW2 if you get TSW3.

 

Don't forget, this is the same people who pay 10 Euros for a few new Arosa Skins, and a new timetable because Rivet Games was so super nice to start fixing their superb high quality releases after a year.

 

Absolutely. But then Rivet have been their own worst enemy...

 

There is nothing there worth my investment - its features that should have been in TSW 5 years ago (TSW is almost 6/7 years old now) and I dont think the base package is interesting enough to warrant paying the 2nd time for the same content (as a UK driver) on top of the fact gen 8 is still supported, on top of the fact I dont see the point when there will be another TSW in 2 years - with no promise of it actually containing any content outside of southern england EMU routes.

 

Lesson for life.
You will never make everyone happy. If you try, you will fail, and ruin your own life in the process.

 

BR125 Thank you for your constructive comment, I don't eat olives, so I don't buy them.

Exactly! Very wise, it is impossible.

 

What does that have to do with anything?

 

Well I wasn't part of that chorus, but I'm not complaining about dynamic weather, lighting and halfway intelligent passengers which I did " bang on about ".

The debate about whether SEHS is actually a route extension will rage on. I don't think it is, anymore than the Bristol-Swansea route in TS was an extension of Bristol- Cardiff. It wasn't.

 

Thanks for pointing that out.

 

That's assuming people think the undiscounted price tag of a route DLC is worth it.

In my case, I was waiting for a 50% sale on SoS, as I'm willing to pay €15 for it. If I were to buy TSW3+SoS package, the TSW3 features would need to be worth spending €20 for me. And while that might sound like a good deal to you, it all really depends on how much you like all the new stuff and how much money you can afford to spend. So far, about the new features, hmm... might indeed willing to spend a fiver on that. But that still doesn't get me to the €35 DTG is asking for it, simply because SoS isn't worth €30 for me. That's not saying SoS is a bad route or anything, plenty of people have bought it, but just as many people will likely never buy it at all.

Just because DTG (or anyone else) puts a price tag on it, doesn't mean that's automatically how much something is worth to someone.

Now, don't get me wrong, I'm not complaining about the price tag. I'm just discussing the definition of 'value' and how people abuse DTGs price tags to calculate how much someone else will gain/loose and wehter it's a good/bad deal for someone else, who's likely in a totally different position than you are.

 

As there is for me if I accidentally type centre or theatre.
You Brits really ought to start spelling words correctly. It's a labor of love and much more colorful. I'll copy some mis-spelled words on a strip of aluminum foil for you.

 

Well considering I am an Englishman and my main language is English. Centre should be spelt the English way and not any other way,

 

[citation needed]

 

There has always been a solid minority who weren't a massive fans of the constant sequels of Sonic and other classic series. Not gonna speak on Sonic so much, but Mario I can give some detail on as I'm more familiar with it.

This isn't so much of a example, but to more illustrate that this was in the back of everyone mind even in the mid-80's. Nintendo with Super Mario Bros 2 notoriously choose to rebrand a different game to it in fear of backlash against it in international markets. The famous reason for doing so was because of difficulty, but other lesser known one was because product testers in fact felt it was too similar to the first game, and wanted something more original. Thus the rebranding of Doki Doki Panic to being the next installment of Mario for the US and other markets. Both because it was easier, and that there was a lot more original to the title than in the actual second game.

To list some pure examples though Sonic became successful partially because Mario World was viewed as a bit too standard of a sequel to the NES trilogy at the time of release. In more recent times many it was common to hate the four New Super Mario Bros games for being too similar to each other. And in terms of spin-offs I know rather notoriously Mario Party was utterly hated particularly by reviewers back in the day because the series didn't change much.

 

That is true of course but of course DTG can't tailor their pricing to every single person.

We should all respect each others decision to purchase something or not as it is nothing to do with anyone else. Some react almost with incredulity that someone should be spending their own money how they see fit and not joining some quest for solidarity to those who deem DTG to be "cash grabbing/ripping off" etc.

Likewise if you decide it isn't for you no-one should be questioning your decision.

As you say it will differ in value for everyone and personally I am still undecided.

 

This is just ridiculous hyperbolde: 'with no promise of it actually containing any content outside of southern england EMU routes'. Two out of the last four UK routes from DTG were 'up north', Cathcart Circle and Spirit of Steam for goodness sake! I know the moment I saw the announcement there would be people on here bashing Southern England EMU's again.

What difference does it make to you that gen 8 is supported? You can still play on gen 9 and PC if you want to, and they now have seperate versions to take advantage of advanced features.

And TSW is 5 years old, not 6/7.

 

p

 

Well, there's sales. Pretty much anything DTG has released will eventually end up discounted more and more over time.

Same here. Curious to see about the new features, as we still know little about most of them.

 

Also would add people should respect others for voicing their reasoning. Seriously it's kind of silly to see the "Well it's their company, they can set it how they like it." argument as if individuals don't have their own right to voice why they aren't doing something. Let me tell you many CEO's and politicians wish to be in a world where that was true! Would make their lives (and only their lives mind you) a lot easier.

 

You're assuming TSW3 DLC will remain at TSW2 prices. It would t surprise me if DTG take the opportunity to make a modest increase in the cost of DLC. After all cost of living is increasing and their staff deserve to be paid a living wage and DTG utilities bills and other overheads will be increasing as well. Do I like the idea of paying more for DLC? No but then I don't particularly like paying more for my gas, electric and every other part of life.
Inflation happens.

 

From today's road map.

"The existing Preservation Crew content on the Roadmap will be released within Train Sim World 3 first, with releases coming into Train Sim World 2 at a later date. You can see below in the Roadmap which content we’re currently planning to release in TSW2"

So the broken content I bought 2 months ago that I did not refund because I saw a update was coming is now going to be updated for tsw3 before tsw2
So I pay another $59 cdn to get the borked stuff fixed sooner or wait and see if it ever gets fixed for tsw2.

Tell me how I should be grateful for this..

 

As a Brit, I got a cheeky chortle (or is that chourtle?) out of that on a difficult day. So I thank you

 

On this point I do agree and its a kick in the teeth for anyone not in a position to immediately upgrade to TSW3 for a variety of reasons.

 

Well, I expect you're right, but it's a gray area, unless you have an encyclopedic knowledge of language and are willing to plow thru the entire program.

Oh, and please be careful with your punctuation and remember to join your independent and dependent clauses correctly. And watch that capitalization.

 

It's a yearly thing we all know September is when the new relaunch is out

 

I don’t get the problem. I don’t feel insulted either. The pricing is reasonable and you have lots of options to even get it at a cheap rate if you aren’t interested in certain routes.

I don’t mind paying every year or two for a new core came that has significant changes. The things like dynamic weather are beyond the scope of what should be expected in a patch for TSW2.

Even if you don’t care about the graphical and functional updates, the new routes are also worth the price of what they are asking for the new game when you compare them to DLC pricing.

What I would find insulting is if they made me repay for DLC I already own on TSW2 and 2020. But seeing as how they are porting all the old routes, if they want to release a big new core game every year or two for a fee I think that is reasonable.

 

I think the simplest solution to the Centre/Center debacle is obvious. Change the signage to read "Ausbildungszentrum"

 

So Just wondering, does this new release mean that any new steam loco that may or may not be released will only be available for purchase in TSW3? If that is the case then it's a pretty poor show for all those who bought TSW2 solely for Spirit of Steam.
This upgrade has been worked on for over a year by DTGs own admission but was kept under wraps till after they had maximised sales of TSW2/Spirit of Steam as much as possible. I wonder how many would have purchased SOS along with TSW2 had they known TSW3 was just around the corner? The announcement of SOS as an addon for TSW2 when they knew TSW3 was imminent is a bit shady if you ask me.

 

I’m splendidly happy I refunded SOS

 

On the topic of the whole selling the upgrades, rather than that being a free update, it does somewhat confuse me.
There are three new routes.
People were always going to be wanting to buy those (At least the new German and American routes), and rather than doing so at £25 each, many would of course choose the £40 bundle for them all, saving £10 for those who own SEHS, or £35 for those who don't. So these route bundles were inevitably going to sell one way or another regardless of the core game update being free to all TSW2 owners or bundled into a new SKU.
There was therefore no necessity to insist people buy the new routes to get the new UI and suchlike. It could have been done just like last year's rush hour bundle which again, people went out and bought regardless, to get the new routes.

 

I have no problem with TSW3, Three routes and enough new features to warrant a new game with a new price. But DTG should have fulfilled their promises on TSW2 before even releasing TSW3. Doing so would have concreted their commitment to their customers and may have secured a faster adoption rate and less sour attitudes for the new version.

 

Yes that seems to be the case.
I am in the same boat as oyu I bought SOS and tsw2 together. Then a couple other dlc later.
But mainly it was for steam and looking forward to more steam content. Along with hoping SOS would get fleshed out more.

I was told by many here I should be happy to pay more money to get what I thought I was paying for the first time.

So any new steam content that comes out I now have to pony up for tsw 3 first

 

I don’t totally disagree with this but it’s not like there aren’t at least a few options for someone in that boat:

1. Keep playing SoS on TSW 2 for no added cost.

2. Buy one of the TSW3 bundles that doesn’t include SoS for only $39 USD, and you can still play SoS since it’s previously owned plus have a new route and the added benefits of the new weather etc.

 

I can understand some people's upset, given that a load of issues weren't resolved in TSW2 (or TSW for that matter), before they moved onto the "current thing". However, some posts do feel like straight up heatwave-driven rants.

Another poster made an analogy regarding electronic hardware such as tellies, in that if you buy a TV from a brand which lacks some features, and then they bring out a newer model which has those features, you don't expect it for free or for a massively discounted price. You decide whether to make do with what you have, or you save to buy it, or you buy it ASAP.

I don't watch the TSW streams or look at roadmaps, as I'm predominantly a TSC player who has a laugh on TSW2 with the gf on the Bakerloo line or BML on my PS4 after a few drinks (the absolute state of her trying to stop at East Croydon - her home station - was worth the £25 in itself). I'm aware that things were probably promised but never actioned on TSW2, though. That's on DTG, for sure.

It all suggests to me that it's six of one and half a dozen of the other. Omissive comms from DTG on certain elements, no doubt as a result of senior management (who don't post here - JD is the most senior one here from what I can see, and fair play to all DTG staff who post here, quite frankly). And just the usual ranting from elements of the community, who - as mentioned previously by the aforementioned poster - wouldn't expect a free telly just because features had been added to a newer model by the same brand since 2 years ago. But despite all the ranting, they keep on paying up anyway. Whereas people get excited for a new TV with new features/better res.

Realise the power of your wallets if you're unhappy. By all means express criticism in a structured manner, but if you then go on to keep buying the next thing and the next thing 2 minutes after its release, realise it's your wallet doing the talking, and not your forum posts

As for me, I know I won't be buying TSW3 on launch day in early September. I went out to get myself some new threads instead, and likely will next month too. I'll see how this pans out...

 

Matt P definitely posts here, and would thus be the most senior who does (that I know of). Sam also still posts here from time to time, and since he was promoted from CM is presumably also senior to JD.

 

Good shout. I haven't ventured into the TSW forums in seriousness recently. Show's what I know

 

Call of fifa train simulator

 

1. "You're paying 30 € for a new route and 5.99 € for TSW 3"
2. "Standard edition: You're paying 45 € for 2 new routes and one longer route which would cost 90 € / 75 € (if you count SEHS as half the price) instead."
3. "I'd rather have TSW 3 than an updated TSW 2, because the routes are cheaper."

 

In my view they should've just charged for the core game and then charge these new routes and extension separately. It would've sold like hotcakes regardless

 

How do you mean that? My understanding is that all the old stuff is ported over to TSW3 and you don’t have to pay anything!

 

Absolutely, although both points are fair. Individuals have a right to voice their opinion and DTG have a right to do as they please, whether that ends well or badly.

 

So who want's to start talking about TSW4?I'm willing to guess someone at dtg is.Hey tsw3 has been talked about for along time and well here it almost is,so why wait to last minute to start discussing tsw4.Kidding?

 

Train Sim World 4 will release on September 6th, 2024