Road Map Train Sim World 3 - Roadmap Part 1 10th August 2022

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Aug 10, 2022.

  1. ottselmaster

    ottselmaster Well-Known Member

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    DTG-

    Get the pres crew to update the routes so TSW3 could be an amazing anthology: Naah
    Close the preservation crew and keep the routes as they are and when they DON`T WORK your out of luck: Hell yes!
     
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  2. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    And we know exactly what will happen, once they get their 95% of anticipated life time revenue for the game, the two hour (Steam) refund window has passed by most users, all the promises and fixes - including the now removed save game - will be down the rabbit hole and vanished.

    NVM and sorry for OT screenshot but at least this has encouraged me to revisit an old favourite, with decent graphics, superb lighting, DLC and upgrades which don't cost a fortune or require a repurchase of the game. Oh... and RoadTrain:-
    RoadTrain.jpg
     
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  3. konradtrains

    konradtrains Well-Known Member

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    Summary of the last 24 hours in DTG Forum.

    DTG please fix TSW 2 before you move on! There is much to do such as the Achievements, Save Game problems, ...

    upload_2022-8-10_19-41-41.png
     
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  4. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

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    But then that's an excuse for poor platform engineering, and also gives DTG an excuse to continue ignoring legacy issues (which by accounts, seem to be half the arguments in this thread alone.

    Ignores the fact that the precedent has already been set (ironically created for a similar controversy when DTG did not want to work on the older routes). Preservation updates were arguably the best attitude DTG had to their legacy content in years. Otherwise we would end up with the exact same environment as TS Classic, and that is a huge turnoff.


    Wha???? There is always huge quality of life for adding improved atmospherics to past routes. You might have individual expectations for each route, but I would imagine atmospherics and lighting as a universal factor. Also what happens if DTG added in a feature in TSW 3 that could really benefit an older route... should we just dust up our hands and say "Well that's that".
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  5. Starkiller

    Starkiller Well-Known Member

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    im just hope that we really get that TSW2 achievement patch , we wait waiting very long on this .
    i would love to start TSW3 , but not with all this problems every time for the achievements , why not make some guys here testing the patches for the future dlcs , so this probleme will be not that big anymore ?

    as much people mentioned here , we want the patched achievement in TSW2 and TSW3 , at the same time not months between .
     
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  6. Delta_Who

    Delta_Who Well-Known Member

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    Just a post to end it all, I think I've been pretty happy with TSW 3 since yesterday. However... I've probably spent more on TSW than any other game (except flightsim). The difference is that flightsim understands the significance of making paid annual updates... whilst fully respecting and being inclusive to previous content (both first and third party.)

    If with TSW... there is the idea that older routes no longer need to be updated (no matter how small or significant)... then some serious questions need to be asked. How long is my purchase/collection valued at? (TSW 2 is only 2 years old)... and why should I continue to invest in TSW if nothing from my previous collection will evolve or progressively update? (I'm calling it now, route extensions when/if they come... will cause a massive uproar)
     
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  7. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    DTG do not need excuses for poor platform engineering, they are free to make the game in the way they see fit, and they have been very open about seeing drawbacks to decisions made years ago as it happen, but this does not change the fact the fundamental choice here is not whether DTG re-engineer the entire game to make updates easier, it is whether you engage with this product as it is rather than as you want it to be.

    IIRC, the preservation crews remit was originally strictly to bring the Preserved Collection from TSW2020 up to TSW2 standards, which they still have not done almost two years on, but things have been added on top along the way which let expectations build that they would actually be forever updating routes to the latest standards, which I do not believe was ever, and especially not because of how long they have taken, a realistic expectation. It is not about dusting your hands, the content is still playable, the content was recently updated, the content is literally available to play in TSW3, I strongly believe that beyond a few years after release, the technological development in route building just mean it makes more sense to rebuild routes from scratch, than try and incrementally improve them, which imo the preservation crew has struggled to do in a reasonable time, which will only get worse as the route backlog increases with each new release.

    Ok, literally was a bad word to use in that sentence, literally they are QoL updates, fair enough, but my point remains that visual improvements that take two years to do, are absolutely not worth taking resources away from developing new features and routes elsewhere. There is months of gameplay available from the older routes, they represent astonishingly good value for money imo, 24.99 does not entitle me to lifetime updates though.
     
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  8. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Whilst fixing the save game and bringing it back route by route it would be a great opportunity to allow at least one save slot for each route in the process.
     
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  9. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

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    The feature set of TSW3 is very nice, the clouds looked fantastic in the preview and I can see myself having a lot of fun with the dynamic weather.
    But I am absolutely not going to get TSW3 until the save game system is working. Even now, I rarely play 60+ minute long services as I can't reliably save them and be sure I won't need to step away from the computer (even though I love Tharandter Rampe and Peninsula Corridor). The longest service in the article was 2:27, that's too long a commitment without the saving system. And I guess the Cajon Pass ones are going to be even longer.

    It's such a shame, I was looking forward to the system working yesterday after the announcement but unfortunately, this is a deal-breaker for me. I hope it's going to be added sooner rather than later and the team realizes the priority of getting this to work.

    The 24-hour stream leading up to the announcement was brilliant at building suspense and excitement, congratulations to the people responsible for the job well done :)
     
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  10. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    The correct answer is option E: Master the Pringles Machine!
     
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  11. PBrogaard

    PBrogaard Active Member

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    I have the following questions for the roadmap or indeed following streams, where fitting:

    a) With yet another high-speed line, and improvements to scenery in the game, as well as added interlocking/safety systems for SEHS - I would like to know, if on Kassel-Würzburg and perhaps future routes, not necessarily high-speed only, will TSW3 feature realistic modelled points and crossings with the correct number of point machines, stretcher bars and so forth? I like how passengers are going to be protected against water now with 3D modelled umbrellas, surely they wouldn't mind not deraling over a vaguely locked point at 150+ km/h.

    b) **answered, map does not seem to feature labels or anything new** Map.. with all the info on UI in TSW3, which I currently welcome, I still am much more interested in how the map will work. Still no geograpchic details? No place names, track numbers and so on? You have already mentioned it earlier, that you would need to remake the way the map works - you have now done so with lighting and weather :)

    c) Consistency in rolling stock interaction. Will TSW3 improve (settle) on the way the driver embarks the locomotives and the same way across routes and trains? One of the best immersion-adding features of TSW over TS is the ability to walk around and climb up. Especially like the Class 31 where you actually walk up the steps feels very very real, as opposed to say SoS where I found the way you access not only the cab but also the back of the tender on a train in the 50s, is to use a jetpack.

    d) **answered in intro q&a stream, no concrete plans to implement** EBuLa? - probably one of the best additions by the community to go along with your TSW experience.

    e) Training centre, technical part? Can we raise the bar? Have you thought of adding ways to learn about how to set the correct brake settings, PZB modes and so on, or will the forums continue to be the place to go? And headlight configuration on steam locomotives on the different routes?

    f) One of the best questions I saw in chat during the count down stream was, "Oh can we have OHE fall out, signalling errors, and such, happening like random events?" Following this, how clever is the dispatcher in TSW3 are there any improvements in the way it can handle things like the above mentioned?

    g) **answered in stream, no change, but new lighting might impact the experience, didn't touch on the animation stopping on passing AI trains** Render/draw distance. Any improvements in TSW3 to shadow pop-in, landscape fading in tunnels, AI steam loco valve gear and wheel animation stopping completely in plain sight?
     
    Last edited: Aug 18, 2022
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  12. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Just think of this game like car finance, you pay for two years, then carry on paying for an upgraded model when the old car disappeared
     
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  13. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Are DTG trying to bee another Bethesda anna be? First we had Creation Club then the way they revealed TSW3 all been done years ago by Bethesda (not necessarily a bad thing) but now not fixing the game as in TSW2. Why couldn't DTG have concentrated on the fixes for TSW2 as promised and then move onto TSW3.

    It seems DTG move on to the next shiny then and leave behind what needs addressing. Might be way off here but it seems DTG don't seem that bothered at retaining old customers and are aiming for new ones that don't have TSW2 so they are completely unaware of what lies ahead.

    Oh JD, just a quick question. How is this 'Training CENTER' spelt in the UK version?
     
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  14. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    The preservation crew is all about preserving content adding new features from core updates, adding those extra fine details to a route big or small.Just look at West Somerset railway and how they added other Locos layer's to the route. It's all very important and adds immersion to routes and extra value. It takes so long due to being a small team which in my opinion should get expanded so things can get completed quicker. DTG shouldn't end it here that's all.
     
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  15. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    • [TSW3] Red Light / Dispatcher improvements across multiple routes (starting with Rush Hour routes and Harlem Line) 
    TSW3 only? You have got to be kidding right? A game breaking bug to be left for infinity.
     
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  16. bowie87

    bowie87 Member

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    Not having the possibility to save the game in 2022 is frustrating. Driving 85 miles at the Cajon Pass with a heavy train and fail because the final stop marker is placed a few yards in front of a red signal sounds like real fun.
    Bringing the save game back on a route-by-route basis sounds like waiting for months for it. But I still have enough to do in TSW 2, so no hurry to get TSW 3 until save game is back.
     
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  17. Thorman

    Thorman Active Member

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    Two questions :
    - Are the Skyhook devs still alive?
    - If yes, do they remember their DB BR 187 needs big fixes?
     
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  18. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Two of the team were eaten by bears, one had the recordings of the 187 and the other the patch coding. If it’s not on the roadmap…….:love:
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2022
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  19. Wivenswold

    Wivenswold Well-Known Member

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    Can I just confirm because there are a lot of threads to plough through on TSW3. Will the improved weather be implemented for TSW2 routes?
    I assume it will be.
     
  20. matt#4801

    matt#4801 Well-Known Member

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    Believe that is just dynamic weather mate, except on SEHS and SOS which are getting all the mod cons.
    If I am wrong I am sure someone will very quickly correct me though.
     
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  21. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    Regarding the save game being disabled, the most shocking thing about it is that if it needs fixing on a per route basis, how is is not already fixed for at least the three new TSW3 routes?!? This would at least give us some confidence that it is a problem that can (and will) be fixed.

    I'm very concerned about the timescale for this to be re-enabled. Are the route fixed going to be prioritised on how useful it is to the route, i.e. the longer routes first? I can't see needing needing it much on IOW for instance but on SH in my opinion it is eesential.
     
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  22. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Is there a roadmap stream, can’t see it yet
     
  23. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    Thinks it's tomorrow, after we get part 2 of the Roadmap.
     
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  24. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    I mean this without a hint of humour or facetiousness: expect years (if ever) for the save game to be re-enabled. DTG are not known for being expedient with grand issues "under [indefinite] investigation."

    Cheers
     
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  25. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    I’ve misunderstood, I thought there was two streams. :cool:
     
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  26. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    Tomorrow just part 1 of the article today.
     
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  27. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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  28. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    So are we expecting some more content to be in part 2 of the roadmap or is it more info about what’s in part 1?
     
  29. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    I think it is more content in the article about the new features in TSW3 , but the stream wil cover generally todays info and then Tuesday will be the new feature stream.
     
  30. Fitz

    Fitz Well-Known Member

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    I took it that there was to be a roadmap stream tonight and tomorrow night?
     
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  31. ottselmaster

    ottselmaster Well-Known Member

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    You arnt alone.
     
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  32. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

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    Glad I wasnt the only one who tuned in to a none existent stream.

    I'm certain it was stated that they'd be a stream tonight in yesterday's announcement stream. Doesn't bode well of that is the case that DTG have turned a new leaf and going to start keeping promises does it?
     
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  33. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    I don’t understand how it isn’t a simple fix. Just save everything as it is at the time of the save, including the time so that AI is at the same point is at the same as when you save it. Even the ZX Spectrum could do this.
     
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  34. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    My last car I paid for up front and plan on keeping it until it's 15 years old, by which time I'll either a. No longer be able to drive, b. Be dead, or c: Have to buy a pokey little electric smart car with a solar panel and windmill on top.
     
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  35. bakedpotatos.jm

    bakedpotatos.jm Well-Known Member

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    I did at first as well
     
  36. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Oh, red flag time.
    I guess I didn't read it correctly the first time.
    I was just about to preorder, when I realised that I will be launching TSW3 without any save-game function, even a 75% one.
    How in the wide, wide world, can players like me, who snatch 30-45 minutes of game time, be expected to play these long routes?
    Unacceptable. Pre-order on hold.
     
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  37. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    I also thought there was to be one today as well.
     
  38. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Same here. I had been toying with the idea of spending the £30 (okay £10 more than it really should be, but hey ho), starter packs - either Cajon or more likely the German one. But when I saw that news my wallet snapped shut. Okay there are some routes like Cathcart where you can get done in a 30 or 40 minute session but even ECW I usually need to break and save the trip. As stated earlier, probably several times already, I will accept if necessary a save feature in the current state, i.e. sometimes broken and only one slot alongside a caveat it is being worked on. But no save and an empty assurance it is being looked into, after all the months and years DTG already had to sort this known issue, is cold comfort and unacceptable.

    Whoever is responsible for this decision (Matt P? - who seems to have gone very quiet over all this) needs to reverse it as a matter of urgency.
     
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  39. JesseBlue

    JesseBlue Active Member

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    Couldn't agree more. A save function - even if somewhat broken, is better than none!
    Seeing that a LOT of people here absolutely HATE this decision, DTG really needs to get their act together!
    I mean, as I and so many others here said, how is such an embarrassing thing even possible???


    How can a software company not get a working save function in their game - for years!, let alone not even solve it for their brand new game???
    Every other game developer in the whole damn world can do it, why is DTG not able to program a save function?????????

    I'm so annoyed as this sucked all my excitement for TSW3 right away because it shows, they will just continue not solving all their bugs, even leaving them in TSW3.
     
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  40. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    About the Save Game withdrawal. I know the Save Game is crap and does not always work as it should, but removing it is so bad. It makes a lot of longer services unplayable. Don't do this, better crap than nothing though I am glad this finally gets full focus.
     
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  41. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    So I wonder if the Cajon services are split into two like Sherman Hill was, to help alleviate the save game issue's.

    Example Part 1 of a service goes from San Bernardino to the Summit of Cajon, while part 2 goes from Summit to Barstow.
     
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  42. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    My big question:

    Why TSW3?

    I understand that the preservation team will update routes both in TSW2 and TSW3. That is nice, but double work, double testing and we all know about the many issues with testing.

    Also it is likely we will loose a lot of progress (AP, achievements, medals, completion marks) which is very bad into my opinion.(read not acceptable).

    Third, is very difficult to explain to new players. Preserved collection has caused many questions at the forums and a fair number of people had difficulty to understand the concept.

    Quite a lot of people feel cheated by DTG, because of this policy and feel they have to pay again for something they already bought. Though not entirely true, I feel with them.

    So why not the choice to give the game core for free and make us pay for the new/improved routes. Cheaper for DTG, less confusing, better for the players? Please answer this in the stream. But to be honest< I am quite pissed about the way it is done.
     
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  43. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If they took every unreliable system out of the game until they had it working fully we would all be looking at a screensaver. DTG do make odd decisions.
     
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  44. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    Even my wife's hidden objects games have a save game function! I can't believe they would withdraw it, flawed as it is.
    It needs to come back. Pronto. Cajon Pass and many current routes will be unplayable for me. Who in the world at DTG thought this was a good idea, for heavens sake.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
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  45. damian#6190

    damian#6190 Member

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    Question for the Q&A stuff and/or roadmap stream.
    On my Xbox I am trying to pre order standard edition however it is restricting me to only be able to pre order the deluxe edition. I don’t really need to rebut SEHS but at the same time I wouldn’t mind paying a bit extra. But I need to be able to pre order the game on both editions not just the deluxe. Also to add to that question will I be able to pre order the game on Xbox game pass as has been done before with some other titles EG: forza etc.
     
  46. Calidore266

    Calidore266 Well-Known Member

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    I was confused about the roadmap stream also, but it was since clarified in one (or more) of these threads that the article will be in two parts, today and tomorrow, followed by a stream tomorrow.
     
  47. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Maybe we need to understand why the save game doesn’t work,

    I guess it has a lot of variables to remember beyond what we perhaps believe
     
  48. Kim1087

    Kim1087 Well-Known Member

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    It's unacceptable that TSW3 hasn't got a save feature, considering that some of the scenarios can take over 2 hours to complete its madness. DTG please reconsider this decision.
     
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  49. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    To be fair, it’s well within DTG’s logic wheelhouse this.

    Make longer routes & remove save games.

    What should of happened is that this should of been resolved in TSW 2, along with the other hard hitting issues, not this move on to TSW 3 and fix later.

    DTG are so obsessed with making TSW look flashy, that they are constantly overlooking the fact, that many of the core foundations of TSW are in seriously dire trouble.

    It’s like a Russian Naval vessel, all shiny and made to look mighty uptop, but the lower decks are abandoned and rotting away.
     
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  50. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I think DTG should have found out why the save game doesn’t work a long time ago and fixed it before dozens and dozens of DLC were released all with potential different issues related to this one broken system. There appears to be a department at DTG solely for making rods for their own backs. It is a very efficient department by all accounts. A stitch in time and all that.
     
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