Road Map Train Sim World 3 - Roadmap Part 1 10th August 2022

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Jamie, Aug 10, 2022.

  1. TheTipsyRaccoon

    TheTipsyRaccoon Well-Known Member

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    This is exactly it, they only support things that bring in the money. How many people here have said they won’t touch TSW3 until the achievements are fixed in TSW2? (Add my name to the list)

    It clearly will affect them financially if they don’t fix it and by not doing so they’d be massively punching themselves in the crotch (from a fiscal perspective).

    Let’s just hope they aren’t too silly to get the message.
     
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  2. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

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    Some of my thoughts on this TSW 3 roadmap:

    Positives
    - I must say, while I'm more of a fan of UK-based routes, the Schnellfahrstrecke Kassel – Würzburg route has really peaked my interest in the roadmap, this surprises me as I'm not a major fan of high-speed routes. The timetable sounds really brilliant, especially with the freight - is that really a 2hrs 27mins service? :o - and the fact timetables are no longer restricted to 24 hours, so really looking forward to seeing what Joe and Lukas have to offer.
    - Regarding Southeastern High Speed, while I'm pleased that route extensions are now a thing, particularly happy of the commuter line up to Dartford, what I'm really excited about is the upgraded timetable - it feels like this is a major step in the right direction of getting more routes like London Commuter, with increased services, splitting/joining of Class 375s at Faversham, and importantly, lots of AI - love the screenshot comparison of Stood, fantastic.
    - Can't tell properly in the final screenshot for SEHS, but the PIS looks like the updated 377 version - really hoping this means the 375 has now been upgraded.

    Negatives

    - Hugely disappointed that TSW 2 routes and locos already released won't be redone with TSW 3 features. While realistic not to expect every old route to get this, why is the Rush Hour routes not going to get TSW 3 features?? The likes of London Commuter and Dresden were a huge turning point regarding timetables in TSW, and they're hardly even a year old, so where's the logic of these being left out? :(:| It feels unfair that Spirit of Steam gets such features, but no modern TSW 2 route does... :mad:
    - For SEHS, shame the opportunity to include the Sheerness Branch wasn't taken.
    - I find it odd that by trying to solve the save game issue, that it's actually being temporarily turned off - how long will this be for?
     
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  3. steveownzzz#6107

    steveownzzz#6107 Well-Known Member

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    From a players perspective, yes- I wish they'd just sit tight and fix TSW2's critical issues so that they don't carry them into TSW3.

    But maybe from a sales perspective, the one good time for them to release a new game is now/early September?
    Basically before Oct/Nov when all the big name titles like FIFA, MW2, etc start dropping.
    Note that late Q4/EOY is discount time, and Q1 is a bad time to try to sell anything- and by 2023 most or all of their target markets are probably admitting that they're in a recession by that point. They probably can't afford to delay.

    In any event, they're shooting their shot and hoping they can make the fixes along the way. I totally empathize with them (they're a super likeable group from what we see on streams) and I'm rooting for fixes. I'm a definite buyer once I can have all of my addons on PS5 TSW3.
     
  4. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    This is the thing though, I’m not about to buy a game, where for the second instalment in the series, I am unable to use all my purchased DLC.

    What’s actually going to happen is I’ll wait till it’s fixed, presumably get drawn into another game instead, then will pick up TSW 3 when it’s dirt cheap.

    At this point I’m just tired of DTG constantly telling us “it’ll be added soon”, “it’ll be fixed soon” only for it to not happen.
     
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  5. DigiTMCN

    DigiTMCN Member

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    They mention this, however wondering why since HMA will not have TSW3 features since it's an older route. Or am I missing something?
    • [TSW3] [DBB-L5 01] DB BR 420 Electric Multiple Unit (Hauptstrecke München-Augsburg) - Developed by TSG

      Also wondering does this mean the preservation crew is back to the the drawing boards and will be slowly incorporating all TSW3 features into older routes?
     
  6. nockwurst

    nockwurst Well-Known Member

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    Love Snowrunner. Season 7 was a disappointment though.
     
  7. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    You do realize that it's temporary...
     
  8. steveownzzz#6107

    steveownzzz#6107 Well-Known Member

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    That reminds me of this time when I was a temporary employee of some big company for like 2 years. I was just a wee lad. Everyone’s got a different idea of temporary I guess.
     
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  9. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    That could mean years. It has been broken since TSW2 launched which is 2 years ago.
    This is a game breaker for many of us.
    Unlike some other major bugs, there is no workaround I can think of.
     
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  10. CrazyHorseyMan

    CrazyHorseyMan Member

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    Quick question for the stream:Will the ICE1 be the german only variant or the Germany-Switzerland one? If it's the latter one, will we get swiss panrographs, Integra or ETCS to run it on Luzern-Sursee(or potential other ETCS Routes)
     
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  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    It’s been an issue since Day 1 so I have zero faith they even have much of a clue how to fix it. Temporary will become like all the other promised fixes, done eventually if it’s easy otherwise swept under the rug.

    There are not many routes in TSW where you can complete an end to end run without saving. Not being able to come off a game and save it may also be contrary to the VDU and anti epilepsy guidelines that video game publishers are required to bring to players’ attention.

    So I say again, no save - even the current flawed one - = no sale.
     
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  12. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Meh, save game function never reliably worked on TSC, so I've learned to play without. Same with TSW. Reading all those comments about save game made me realize how I got used to not using save games.

    Fortunately TSW lists the time required to complete a timetable service or scenario (although somehow shunting always seem to take considerably longer than DTG states). Either complete it in one run, or don't even start it.

    I know, it's kinda silly. Save game features have been pretty much default in the software industry, but I've learned to live without when it comes to train simulation.

    Considering TSC never had a reliable save game feature, I wouldn't expect one in TSW ever.
     
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  13. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    I hardly ever use the save game because I reserve the longer services for times when I know I have all that free time to dedicate to them. But on the odd occasion when I've had an unforeseen event I've used it and on resumption it hasn't given me any problems.
    And now they tell me that they are going to eliminate it? But who has come up with such stupidity? It is always better to risk that a function will fail sometime, than that we will never have the possibility to use it.

    Ah no, it's only until they find a solution. Of course, we can rest easy knowing that they haven't been able to fix it for years and how easy it is for them to put all the problems that get stuck in a box with the name "someday" in it.
     
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  14. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    This is huge! So many improvements! I am shocked and charmed \o/
     
  15. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Question for the stream: The sparks effects are TSW3 specific, yet. To my understanding, the effect it loco-based. Is there any chance (or concrete plans) for the preserved locos to be updated with the effect from time time?
     
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  16. Luke8899

    Luke8899 Well-Known Member

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    Have to say the save games thing is actually hilarious, after years of people insisting it is completely broken and useless, the moment DTG turns it off it emerges that actually people think it works fine most of the time and is really useful to have in spite of its flaws. This would be grade A level trolling if DTG were deliberately provoking this reaction only to then re-include it without ever fixing it. However I suspect it was them genuinely reacting the hyperbolic criticism this forum generates and concluding nothing was better than something completely broken. There's a lesson in here for players and DTG alike, but I doubt either side want to learn it.
     
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  17. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    Notwithstanding the fact that some people have to work/eat/sleep/do the gardening etc and don’t have time to spend 2 and a half hours solid in front of their computers or consoles, is there maybe a health and safety issue arising from the lack of a save game facility?
     
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  18. DigiTMCN

    DigiTMCN Member

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    Regarding save game thing, I have never used it. I just pause my game and put the PS5 in rest mode. The next day turn it back on and it instantly resumes where I was.
     
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  19. bowie87

    bowie87 Member

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    Rest mode is power consuming. Nowadays it should not be necessary to keep the console in standby over night.
    But I used the save game primarily as a backup. We all know the stop markers placed a few yards in front of a red signal. Especially with the heavy US trains and the long routes this seems like real fun after a long run, if you get a SPAD just before the end of the run.
     
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  20. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    This is one of my favourite promotional shots because it demonstrates a big improvement that most seem to have missed.

    unknown (1).png

    In TSW2, as soon as the Sun drops below the horizon/treeline everything else becomes pitch black, creating a stark contrast between the still-bright sky and the dark unrecognisable environment (screenshot below). It looks like they've improved light diffusion to the point where this is no longer the case. The shadows seem to be improved overall. Hopefully that will make those evening and morning runs much more immersive and fun to drive.

    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
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  21. junior hornet

    junior hornet Well-Known Member

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    This usually happens with Xbox, as long as you haven’t played a different game in the meantime. However, if there is a power blip or a system update overnight, it won’t and you would have to start again.
     
  22. marcsharp2

    marcsharp2 Well-Known Member

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    The save function has been broken ever since the first TSW. It's never worked properly.
     
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  23. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    How long will TSW2 be supported? There are updates and fixes announced, but till when? Will there be new TSW2 content?
     
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  24. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

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    For some people it works fine. I regularly save and reload the game and the only time I've had issues was when I did it from free roam before the services has started. Upon reloading, there was no more objective and the train became a stationary asset for eternity.
     
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  25. DB628

    DB628 Well-Known Member

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    Can we get finally ICE timetables for Rhein Ruhr Osten and Hauptstrecke Rhein Ruhr
     
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  26. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Not to mention a completely broken lighting cycle! It goes pitch black around sunset before getting significantly brighter again. Hopefully this has been fixed.
     
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  27. Conrad

    Conrad Member

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    The save function is a design problem.
    Don't believe in a quick solution. Maybe never believe in a solution.
    DT must completely reprogram how timetables works and save their data. This problem had to come out before we released TSW2020, not right now.
    The design in DT is missing!
     
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  28. ottselmaster

    ottselmaster Well-Known Member

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    I kinda wounder if they got to scared of the backlash and had to redo some stuff. They honestly thought everyone would be FINE with them just abandoning TSW2 without a word.
     
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  29. KatiaBLR

    KatiaBLR Well-Known Member

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    I'm just gonna add my thoughts as someone who only plays UK based routes (with the exception of Arosa)

    While I'd obviously love a brand new modern UK route (London King's Cross - Peterborough or Edinburgh Waverley - Dundee are my two preferences), I'm actually really looking forward to an extended SEHS network.

    I think while everyone is talking about the extension to Ashford, I personally think the Dartford extension is perfect and creates a whole new dynamic to the route. Also I play on PS4 so while I know I might not get all the extra layers of AI (like the Sittingbourne - Sheerness non-player services amongst others) it's nice to know the timetable for this route is being heavily expanded and I cannot wait for it.

    It feels to me the SEHS route now feels like a proper network, giving the ability to do fast Ashford - London services, short Dartford - Gravesend or Rochester - Faversham services, there are so many more possibities.

    One thing that still bugs me is the West Cornwall Local route, I still think it was a big mistake to run the additional mileage from Truro - St. Austell instead of adding the branch line from Truro - Falmouth, it was a huge wasted opportunity in my view to create a true network. I was so looking forward to WCL but rarely use it now as the Truro - St. Austell section feels so wasted, but that's just me.

    I feel with SEHS having so many varying short route options with the addition of Dartford it will really bring it to life.

    Now don't get me wrong, I'd really REALLY wish it was extended down to Dover Priory, I'll certainly settle for what's on offer.

    ** Also, thank you DTG for adding the step signalling into this route, such an underrated addition but will make gameplay so much more interesting!
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
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  30. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Well-Known Member

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    Well, I've slept on it now and have come to the conclusion that:

    I can live with the fact that the save function is a bit wonky because it's a feature I rarely use so whilst it has no adverse effect on me personally, it's an issue I can largely overlook. The carried forward 'quirks' are probably also tolerable because, well, that's how it is with most games nowadays.

    I can also live with the fact that core gameplay seems to be largely unchanged so the bulk of the time is once again going to be spent doing pretty much the same TSW2 stuff for more super easy gold medals.

    I know that JD/Matt presentation video wasn't the of the best quality in order to draw any concrete conclusions but nonetheless I still didn't think the new lighting was all that good. "too dark" was still very much in attendance and there were times when levels of brightness felt a bit overdone, creating a (for want of a better description) 'gaming look' as opposed to a more natural feel. But, you know, console gamers have had to live with overdone effects forever and TSW lighting has always been a bit rubbish anyway, so being as how I've long since mastered the art of tweaking my TV settings I can easily live whatever DTG throw at me in that department.

    Then there's SEHS, the word "free" and the bundles in general. I'm sorry but no, if you're paying for either version of the full game then you get SEHS regardless of whether you own it or not, so under no circumstances should DTG even consider promoting the fact that owners of the original route will get a free update "with any paid bundle" when that is absolutely not the case. If you want both of the new routes then there is no scenario whatsoever that allows you to purchase them and get something for "free". Well there is....but only a complete buffoon would choose that path. I get it that DTG have to attract new users in the best possible way, but there's nothing to say that the marketing department couldn't have been equally as accommodating towards it's existing users.

    The single-most thing that I absolutely couldn't come to terms though with was the fact that TSW3 comes with no performance upgrades whatsoever. I don't want another year's worth of poor draw distances (horizon pop-in), weird goings-on between those two rails, trains with half a shadow and foliage that magically fades in a few yards in front me... I kind of wanted something that shouted "Series X" in my face and not something that whispered 'Train Sim World 2.1: User-Friendly edition'

    I was going to close this off with a Streets of San Francisco style epilog but time isn't my friend and I'm struggling for the right words so I'll leave it at that. Apologies for waffling on a bit....it was intended to be a one shot deal.

    (I make no apologies for my Northern brand of humour with the next bit)
    Did anyone who watched the TSW3 presentation get heavy vibes of Matt Lucas settling down into a big chair for an episode of Jackanory (an old TV show where a famous person read a book out loud) after been introduced by a host who was either Clarence the cross-eyed lion or someone who'd not been briefed on where the front facing camera was :love:
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
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  31. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    All righty - another crises, let’s call it “Save Gate” . People complain for years how the save is broken, and it does have problems, granted and the save game function has had and still has problems even in TSC after well over a decade. Yet many point out it should be a simple fix because a even a hidden picture puzzle game has a working save function. Obviously any amateur programmer can code a proper save game function.

    Rubbish - many simulations have problems with saving a simulated world - I have been into flight simulators since the mid 80’s and have yet to find a simulator that consistently save a session in mid- flight accurately to where you can continue without finding your aircraft in a unique attitude - add in live / dynamic weather and you have even greater challenges. Saving a flight on the ground is a more successful as it is in TSC, saving when stopped in a station, on a scenario with limited AI is usually successful. More AI causes problems with the save. So I am sure trying to save a TSW service proposes unique challenges, just like multiple AI traffic in TSC. This all leads me to believe it is not a “simple” fix based on my experience in multiple simulators.

    That all being said, I rarely use the save function and usually try and pick a run or plan a flight to what time I have available. However I do find the decision to total disable the feature a bit baffling. I do wish them success in getting it sorted to a workable level and their decision will not affect my decision to purchase or not.
     
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  32. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Agreed. Saving and loading isn't an easy thing to develop.

    Even Euro Truck Simulator 2 / American Truck Simulator massively simplify their save games, which pretty much only stores the location of your truck. Anytime you load a game, your truck will be stopped with its engine off. AI traffic is just re-generated, since there's no traffic controller for road vehicles anyways. Can't do that in rail simulation. Things would get messed up. Actually, that is why save games are unreliable in TSW/TSC.

    But, considering saving/loading has been an issue in TSC for years, DTG should've known better. Perhaps they should never have offered a save game feature in the first place.
     
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  33. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    I'm going to challenge your point that it's the best thing to do while you solve the issue. I play on xbox series x. In my experience (over 3.7m ability points worth) I've created hundreds of saves ... many hundreds probably ... and can probably think of only a couple of issues. None of these issues were related to the railroad "continuing" while I was gone. I've never seen that.

    I find these saves very helpful. For example:
    1 - The other day I was bringing an s-bahn service down the hill into Koln (the stretch after you go over the bridge and down hill from 80-60kph into the next to last station) when the game crashed. This was a long service. Fortunately I'd made a save at the previous station as the crash cost me about a minute and a half and not the entire trip.

    2 - I'm a little bit guilty of not minding my train and railfanning from the cab. The game is beautiful. The other day I was doing a run on the hamburg line and completely blew past a stop by 100m (you can laugh) because I was admiring a passing train and missed the countdown and didn't apply the brakes. This was another s-bahn run. Rather than stop the train, back up, and completely blow away my to that point on time status I took a mulligan and rebooted my latest save from a couple stops ago.

    3 - Some of the scenarios are very complex and time consuming. For example the long switching scenario in Oakville subdivision, or any run down Cane Creek, or some of the locals in Clinchfield. Using the saves were very helpful because it's quite easy to nail part of the scenario and then do something slightly wrong and then get lost later. I really got into trouble in one of the Clinchfield scenarios. I went to spot the cabin and the string of cars wasn't in the right place. I thought it was. I thought I knew what I could do and tried it. Some time later I was stuck. I restored my last good save where I knew it was right and saved myself lots of time and got through the hard scenario no problem.

    This is all aside to the common points of breaking up long runs for later etc.

    Now don't read this next part to say I'm complaining.... It's not.

    When you had the jackhammering sound issue on the xbox. It was annoying. You accepted it and learned to work with it for what it was. Was the best thing to do to turn off sound in the game while you fixed it? No. At the end of the day I'd rather deal with the problem then not have a vital feature. BTW the fix for it was well worth the wait. I'll wager the fix for the save issue will also be well worth the wait.

    The same applies to the save issue. I had one broken scenario because of reloading a save. Exactly 1. I've had a few instances where the configuration of the train wasn't exactly right when reloading the save. The point is I'd rather live with these random issues in TSW2 rather than not have the save feature. Not being able to save in TSW2 would be incredibly annoying and change the game's fun factor for me. For the same reason I wouldn't want it taken away from TSW2 is the reason it should be there in TSW3, even if it isn't perfect. Like the jackhammering issue it's not optimal. It is a bit annoying. It probably causes noise for y'all. Losing it through will be worse than the problem. I have no doubt it will get fixed.

    I've already bought nearly every route and extra engine. I think there are 4 routes I don't have one of which I will have (SoS) when I buy TSW3. I've done every scenario. I plan to do every entry on every time table, TSW2 and now TSW3 is a game for me that will never end. I can be patient with the fix and live with the save files while y'all fix it.

    Last thing .... I would really rather not lose 3.7m AP and 250 ish levels of progress when I buy the game. I didn't exactly suffer doing the services and am only up to 4-5am on the time tables. I could do them again and get new achievements. Losing my experience points hurts though. It's a badge of pride.

    Keep up the great work. I love your game.
     
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  34. Kim1087

    Kim1087 Well-Known Member

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    I love walking routes looking for collectables, I routes are very beautiful and are made to be explored, however the routes are full of holes, so I tend to save whenever I'm going over a bridge or through a tunnel so I can always reload so I don't lose my place,
     
  35. DTG JD

    DTG JD Director of Community Staff Member

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    Thank you for the feedback - understand for some players it's an 'I've learned to live with it not working every time' (and those are some great applications!), but it is a much larger issue for some players. We expect this to be a temporary measure, but it will take time to fix.

    Jackhammering was annoying, but ultimately it didn't make the game unplayable (and we couldn't just turn off sound). It's a drastic measure, but one we hope you understand.

    (and we're working on Profile Transfer.)
     
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  36. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, almost certainly. But hopefully this nocturnal route may see sleeper coaches in future. As well as the missing types of IC coach - there's so much potential
     
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  37. simontreanor81

    simontreanor81 Well-Known Member

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    My main question:

    Will we see ICE1 layers on the other German routes? They fit almost all of them.
     
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  38. nepclassof84

    nepclassof84 Well-Known Member

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    Glad you are working on the profile transfer.

    Follow the 80-20 rule. Do 80% of us or more have serious problems or 20% of us or less have serious problems. I think I'm in the 80%. Please do something other than removing it entirely.
     
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  39. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    This is quite literally game changing:

    ‘Not only will a change in weather affect your own operations but it may also hinder other traffic on the line. This could lead to unexpected delays in other services, or signals clearing at a different time. Operating your service on auto-pilot should be a thing of the past.’
     
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  40. JesseBlue

    JesseBlue Active Member

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    I think it is pretty clear from the feedback in this thread that the majority is NOT AT ALL happy with this decision and would much prefer a somewhat broken system then none at all!
    Which is a clear step back.

    When I read "...it will take time" I must say, from my experience with DTG this means months if not even longer.
    This is absolutely unacceptable for me. And reading this thread, the majority thinks alike!
    So please reconsider!
     
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  41. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    you know the best way to give more urgency to DTG to solve this 'save' non feature and other fixes? DON'T preorder. You give them your money you give them a pass and no incentive.

    Does anyone else feel uncomfortable at the way DTG give the player base less and less say? I think there is some sort of Q&A next week while it should of been a week ago. It is like they are less interested in what we have to say and they just plough on regardless.
     
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  42. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Hmmmm be interesting to see how that's going to work without any Mexican standoff's as I thought the despatcher couldn't change the platform it's destined to, so if an AI is wanting to go into P1 but there is a train there but P3 is free but despatcher says no, P1 is your destination but the train sitting in P1 can't move cos the delayed train is in the bloody way!
     
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  43. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    The TSW3 stream I watched the other day promised a detailed user manual -- how will that be distributed and will it be available for some kind of download before the newbie's actual release date?
    Thanks!
     
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  44. eldomtom2

    eldomtom2 Well-Known Member

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    I would presume through the standard Steam manual distribution system for PC at least, like previous titles. This means that while it probably won’t release before the game, it will be downloadable regardless of whether or not you own the game.
     
  45. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    I am all for delays and randomisation, with the caveats above. But also a big if, without a save game these could turn an expected 40 minute run into something much longer which without the ability to at least try and save to resume will mean you can't finish the run. Also while not of great concern to me, how will this sort of thing affect scoring? It's already a bit irksome in TSC to see your points peeling off for ride quality, because an event the scenario creator scripted in has you crawling round a canted curve at 15 km/h instead of 100 km/h (looking at you, Villingen to Konstanz).
     
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  46. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    That's a sizeable understatement, JD. For players like me, who have busy, adult lives and can maybe snatch 30-60 minutes max, it's a route killer for dlc like the American freight routes which are my favorite.

    OK, I take you at your word that it's a tough fix. But why have you disabled it entirely. It doesnt make sense, defies logic even. You, yourself admitted that it works 75% of the time. Good enough for many of us.
    Just put it back and we'll live with its vagaries until a fix can be made.

    " It will take time to fix " sounds like a long, long time to me and others.
    If you're not putting it back, at least provide a workaround? If not, what was going to be yesterday's pre-order is now a question - for me at least.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2022
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  47. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Same here, as per my updated signature. Or I wonder is it the case that the save game doesn't actually work at all in TSW3 or at least on the new routes? Conspiracy theory maybe, but there has to be something more going on. Otherwise it is a blunt instrument to suddenly apply when the save game has been unreliable all these years.

    So I either want to see the equivalent of the current save game available in TSW3, warts and all or at the least some sort of temporary checkpoint system which will allow us to continue from a set point - even if all trains have to resume from a standstill or as an absolute last resort all non essential traffic is deleted so the player can finish that run/scenario.
     
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  48. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    ***Confirmed by JD that the dynamic AI events will NOT be happening. This was a communication error and has since been removed from the roadmap***
     
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  49. mattchester#9176

    mattchester#9176 Well-Known Member

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    I'm not surprised, I was very sceptical that AI driving would be affected by weather.

    Pretty dumb to get everyone's hopes up though.
     
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  50. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    This is the $64,000 question for
    me. What logic would dictate killing something while your still working to save it. I wouldn't want to be lying on the street, bleeding to death, and the first responder was from DTG. :D

    Maybe you're right, it works even less than 75% or not at all in TSW3. But, if so, why not come right out and say it? At least some logic would prevail.

    ( Sorry, can't see signatures. Switched them off years ago. )
     
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