It just shows that TSW3 would probably need 6 months more of bug fixing and performance optimization and development before release. Or should be released as Early Access
Maybe Sam did not configure the TSW3 dev build profile in the Nvidia control panel for Max Performance. Rendering at 1080p is like a walk in the park for a 3090. The card might have been in power saving mode.
That should not matter anyway. I have a decent pc and in most games including (!) MSFS i actually have to limit the FPS to 60 to save some energy and have the hardware stay cool. Since TSW3 looks like a 2017-2018 game it should not stutter on modern hardware and not have FPS in the low 20´s. And we all know TSW3 will stutter on basically every PC. And it seems to happen in every stream so the guys working for the company creating the game dont know how to set up their PC for good FPS in the game they try to sell? I press X to doubt.
What is the point of having nice graphics if you have to turn everything down to minimum in order to get any sort of performance. I could already not run TSW2 on much above low to medium settings and im at a point where i either have very poor fps or lots of jagged edges. TSW3 is going to be poor performance on low settings for many. I thought optimisation work was ongoing and once it was done things like layers on HMA and passengers on BML might be able to be possible, but it will never happen like this, it is clearly getting worse.
I doubt any optimization was done for TSW3 after seeing the streams. I actually fear it will be even worse then TSW2 and of course DTG will say they "look into it"...just like they look into fixing the save issue since years.
Definitely concerning, that on such a small map in clear weather with no AI services on a prerecorded clip we saw such violent stutters, thats the second such prerecorded clip we've seen evidence of stuttering and I am now questioning the official reasoning behind the 1st clip being the recording software. My hand is wavering over the refund button I am not going to lie.
I’m feeling really apprehensive too redrev1917 . I figure it will be a “you get what you see Line”. it did look like the 66 had a distance counter though. I think the challenge is seeing something run smooth without being streamed. I question whether DTG would be willing to compile 5-10 mins of recorded gameplay on ultra (showing settings) , disclosing pc build and uploading somewhere. There was a lot of tree pop too again. Im hoping it runs ok as the gen8 crews are going to be losing their hair come the 6th. lm crossing my fingers it’s “streaming software”
Its got to the stage with these preview streams that I think DTG really need to consider releasing a free demo version the week before release so we can get our hands on it and see first hand how good/bad it runs on our systems. A 2 hour window isn't really sufficient to test 3 long routes fully to see if it's sufficient quality. I realise DTG don't do demos buy given thats now 3 streams which have caused nothing but concerns I really think it would be in their interests to consider
I hope that is sarcasm. If Sam is getting stuttering on a 3090 card with it raining what hope is there for the rest of us and then the Gen8 players? This is why I stop pre-ordering years ago.
Totally agree I suggest you all do a test. Those of you who have a medium-high PC, lower the settings in TSW2 to a minumum, including the resolution. And surprise, the stutters are still there. With minimal hardware, nothing matters. I am absolutely certain that with the most powerful PC that can be built and at minimum quality settings, TSW would still stutter. As others have mentioned, I have a mid-high PC but capable of running very demanding games on ultra though I limit my fps to 30. My old eyes do not distinguish much more fps anyway ;-) I have no stutter with MSFS 2020 with everything on ULTRA and with add-ons with great depth and complexity PMDG 737, Fenix A320 (and I can't resist saying, for the price of one or two DLCs of trains with graphics "put your qualifying adjective here"). The level of complexity of the simulation is not even comparable. As another CUSTOMER has mentioned, I don't care who or what the problem is. I have paid for a product that does not meet the promised specifications nor the expected performance and for this reason I expose my criticism/complaint. I like simulations of almost any kind, also train simulations, that's why I'm here.I really hope DTG succeeds... if they do well, of course. If so, I'll be happy to spend my money on the product they sell me. If not, I will do what they suggest, which seems to be taken from a manual of malpractice in business "if you do not like it, do not buy it" I'll wait for another developer. Sooner or later it will come. Meanwhile, as a CUSTOMER, I will complain about the malfunction in all areas of TSW2, a product that I bought and that is still defective years later. The important specifications of my PC for you to compare/analyse: Various SSD M2 and mechanical hard drives. No appreciable difference in terms of stutters if it is installed on one or the other, mechanical or not, primary or not. Currently installed on a Samsung SSD 970 PRO 1TB ASUS ROG 3090 graphics card I9 9900K CPU (tested with 5GHz overclock and no overclock) A bit old, I know, but I've read I12 posts with the same complaints. 32GB DDR4 RAM Once again, apologies for my English (and for the long boring text). I hope my text and tone (a bit angry and frustrated, but not aggressive) are understood.
Hi They fix the stutter in Tsw 2020? No They fix the stutter in Tsw 2? No They Will Fix the Stutter in Tsw 3? No, simple answer. Just check the past record from DTG to know what will be tsw 3.
TSC has always stuttered but that was very obviously tile loading and was improved by using an SSD. I don’t remember TSW hanging like this when it first released though. Is it the way they code their products, is it a problem with UE4 or is it both? There has to be a way around it, or a way to minimise it’s impact because it didn’t always stutter/hang like this. I wonder did FSW world stutter? If not, what did they do different there? Fair play to Sam for openly admitting the problem, I really appreciate that honesty rather than the ‘looking the other way’ that goes on when other people are doing the stream. I do miss him being CM! With that said, it’s action on these issues we need to see, all the words in the world no longer cut it, particularly when these problems have carried over into yet another ‘new’ version of the game. ps Adam - It’s 2022….you should be able to have properly textured distant scenery and tables and chairs inside buildings. Is this an example of Gen 8 limiting the game again because it certainly sounds like it. Also, achievements. Feel free to never ever include them in any route or training centre ever again. Please pps Don’t know about anyone else, but when DTG Protagonist was walking around in the rain it was pretty obvious to me at least the fps was very low indeed. It should be better than that. Also, I’d like to see dawn and dusk with clear skies…does that still look awful with the sun shining through the ground? The night we actually saw looked better however. ppps - They haven’t altered the sound in the 395 at all by the looks of it. Please lower the sound of those wipers…there is no way on this Earth they are that loud in real life.
Without opening the whole "don't understand why DTG didn't use unreal 5" drivel again ( we know) this does elude to it being a UE4 common thing https://twistedvoxel.com/unreal-engine-5-pc-stuttering-issues/
I’m sure there’s an element of that yes, but the game hasn’t always hung like this. Back when it first released I don’t recall this happening.
Agreed. I do wonder sometimes whether mods and ini settings impact it but then I've got a high end rig and it shouldn't be troubled by it
Absolutely. They’ve also been a thing since GWE came out with it’s short track draw distance and Sam wouldn’t have been using any last night so I doubt they’re the problem.
Do you know I wonder if DTG ever contacted Epic and asked them to land a hand in resolving some of the stuttering/ performance issue. How come there isn't any stutter in the massive Gears game... surely the unreal engine can do far better
Last night's stream performance in the live portion of gameplay look to have been caused by something other than the game. Both Adam and I ran the game with the exact same set-up on Training Center after the stream and had solid 40+fps throughout. As such I'm currently prepping a dedicated streaming PC in order to demo it again. Having spent most of the day with that build I was completely blindsided by the low frame rate when driving in the rain, especially since my PC was barely under stress while playing it. Obviously you can disregard the assertion above until it's proven.
It should be solid 60 FPS without stuttering, not 40FPS with regular stuttering on such a beast PC ! In the end TSW2/3 has not 2022 graphics, more like 2017 graphics and we should not have these massive performance problems with 2021/2022 Hardware And it's just strange that no one at DTG seems to be able to show TSW3 without low FPS and regular stuttering
I would dearly love to see that same test done with the game booted under DX12 although I doubt we’ll ever see that officially sadly. DTG Protagonist (last ping (promise!) but I really feel this needs looking at), I’ll bet you see 60fps instead of 40fps (more if it’s not capped) and if so you could take that to the dev team and ask them why this isn’t a priority, because it should be! I honestly don’t understand why DTG are giving away free performance by sticking with DX11 on PC. More to the point, why do the new specs say DX10…who is still using that?! Perhaps if DX12 is properly supported that extra performance would allow the unlocking of the draw distance and/or some other goodies. I’d have thought that in a sim that requires a lot of CPU grunt not using DX12 is insane. Since it was discovered that the game worked under DX12 I’ve never gone back and never experienced a single problem related to it. TSW2 is rubbish in DX11 but magnitudes better in DX12 so I’ve no doubt TSW3 will be identical given, well, you know…
Please also do an experimental DX12 test. Even if not officially supporter it's the way to run TSW2 right now with up to 20 FPS gains as it's a far superior rendering method. Also never use borderless fulscreen mode, it's a stuttering mess most of the times
I watched into the YouTube Recording of the stream and the stuttering is apparent. Sad to have this back and sad to have this (Garbage Collector, no pun intended) finetune by myself with the ini again. Sorry for being rude but I'm becoming more and more dissapointed by how this is rubbed into my face all over again. Hardware is not the problem, I'm one of those that invested 1000+ Euros in a new rig just for the game and to find out, that adding 5 lines to that LOVE*ing ini solved the stuttering. Search for threads created by geloxo I'm really angry noone at DTG working with the engine is actually tweaking the engine as they maybe didn't quite understand the engine?
I have said in another thread, but this is exactly why I personally will not be purchasing TSW3, and due to still being on the 4.26 engine, still has it's current performance issues(stuttering) Ps: If things change in the future(Being hopeful) then I may reconsider, because its just the performance aspect that is the major fallback at the moment, and it does affect gameplay quite a lot.
If you have so much content you must know that some routes stutter far more than others. No ini tweak will remove all stuttering completely it will only slightly improve how often it occurs. Also there is far more stuttering in DX12 than DX11 , you gain FPS but also increase stuttering.
Well that clinches me not preordering TSW3 then. I have a VRR monitor and even with that, it takes at least 50 to have a solidly smooth experience. Thanks for at least setting realistic expectations for us of what to expect though. The honesty is much appreciated.
Whilst I imagine there’s some awkward chats happening today, it was good to see it push a system in reflection for two reasons. They know it was unacceptable We know what it’s like under load potentially
That DTG did nothing (it looks that way at least) to increase Performance and reduce stuttering for their "new" game TSW3 is something I don't understand. They show promo videos with rooms full of devs. But somehow they seem to be unable to even acknowledge the big performance problems and unable to improve it since years . Instead now we have eye adaption.
I hate to say this, but it's become apparent (already suspected) that the development team are the major sticking point in this franchise, which needs to be unstuck with skillset enhancement. Although I don't know for sure what's happening behind the scenes, I was in conversation (well, still in said conversation, diverging a little) with my far more knowledgeable brother, a senior developer, who is currently working on a huge Unreal Engine 4 game (UE5 testing ongoing alongside). We started off discussing stutters as a general issue in Unreal Engine, and also garbage collection (as referenced by Matt) causing hitching. My brother said that they have a team dedicated to monitoring performance in relation to Unreal Engine stuttering for their game, and they are actively optimising the parts of the code that such issues arise with, when they arise, to effectively hide the stuttering. Regarding garbage collection, he states that you can absolutely hide it in Unreal Engine; he can't fathom why it should be an issue for DTG, i.e. blatantly apparent with pauses/hitches. He said based on this, he wouldn't be surprised if they rely on the blueprint mode of Unreal Engine too much, which is like a drag and drop node-based visual system of scripting (simplified development that avoids C++ programming). Then I decided to watch the latest development diary "Power", and I caught a shot of one of the team's PC screens. Indeed they were clearly using blueprint mode... You'll see it yourselves in the diary video: lots of boxes connected by wires on the developer's screen. Now, it's not necessarily a bad thing to use blueprint mode; my brother is currently using blueprint mode for animations, because he says UE pretty much ties your hands when it comes to doing those, but he is still then nativizing it, i.e. coding the script properly in C++, so the finished game won't really use blueprint at all. DTG may be nativizing it too – but these performance issues, and their apparent problems with resolving bugs, suggest (not proven, admittedly) a heavy leaning on the use of the blueprint mode in UE with no, or not enough, nativizing into code.
Are some people still insisting after watching the stream yesterday that it is a stupid idea to suggest to build an engine dedicated to train simulation? I'm even more inclined to suggest on building such an engine
DTG I wasn't too phased by the low FPS rate on the live section. It certainly didn't look like <20 FPS. But the stutters in the prerecorded section are concerning.
I agree with you. "solid 40+fps" is not smooth enough in todays standards, and with monitors with AMD Freesync/Nvidia GSYNC, you need more than 40 fps for gameplay to actually be silky smooth or solid, preferably 60fps or higher to benefit from the monitor technology.
If they start it now, dedicate half the company's resources to it, and somehow don't go bankrupt, it can be ready in time for TSW6, and then we can all complain about how buggy it is.
Or you will be amazed at how well it turned out to be and claim you always insisted they should build their own engine. Probably claiming it was your idea in the first place
I don’t think that TSW3 will be delayed, but the last streams did not help to keep the hype going. I really like the streams by Sam, but yesterday, the stream was a publicity disaster. So, better no stream today than an unprepared stream which does not help selling TSW3, probably on the contrary.
Having a completely unsubstantiated guess, possibly it has to do with the visual quality of Sam's stream and making sure that future streamers have computers that are up to the task? That would be wise IMO.
Why not do the same as 100s of streamers and use a external capture device? You can buy a decent one for £150 or don't dtg have 150 to spare at this point!
Given the spec of Sam's machine it should have been up to the job. And it's not like it's the first ever stream Sam has done and we've never seen such poor quality from TSW2 routes, so theres clearly something casing TSW3 to perform so badly
This annoys me quite a lot, TSW has pretty big struggles with performance & memory usage, however DTG just keep adding more, seemingly under the assumption that it’ll be fine.
TSW3 won't be delayed. We are simply unhappy with the quality that the streaming tools we currently use are outputting, so we are pushing back our previews until we can get it working at a level that we are happier with how our content is showcased.
