This thread I'm not as nervous about posting for some reason, maybe because it is in Off-Topic. Why were there so many old British DMUs? For anyone who isn't aware, imagine the British Rail Class 101 from Tees Valley Line or Northern Trans-Pennine. Now imagine lots of tiny variations in it made, with each iteration being dubbed: (Clears throat) Class 100 Class 101 (as mentioned above) Class 102 Class 103 Class 104 Class 105 Class 106 Class 107 Class 108 Class 109 Class 110 Class 111 Class 112 Class 113 Class 114 Class 115 Class 116 Class 117 Class 118 Class 119 Class 120 Class 121 Class 122 Class 123 Class 124 Class 125 Class 126 Class 127 Class 128 Class 129 Class 130 And I kid you not they all look very similar (I don't want to say "identical", because A) It would hurt quite a few people here and B) It's not true) But why so many?
A very basic answer is that lot of Gen 1& Gen 2 MU’s look the same, because they’re mostly based on one body shell. The technical differences will be where the differences are, depending on their intended use & region. It would be quite a lot to type out the specifics for each one, but I’m sure someone will have the time to do so.
You could look at it in the same way as cars. Why do you need for example a BMW 318, 320, 325, 328, 330, 335 all look the same but each one is different. Did I forget the 323.
BR outsourced them to several different builders, partly because some early DMU iterations were disappointing in service and partly because there was a degree of experimentation in the 1950s. BR specified different uses (high and low density, local and Intercity). Different regions also had different policies and attitudes towards technical details (corridor connections, transmissions systems etc) - so for example the 101s in TSW didn't get to the Western in any numbers until the 1970s, while 117s rarely left the Western until the 1980s. Basically it was a mess - unlike Italy, for example, that settled on one type (with minor variations and improvements) from the 1960s right until the 1990s. Since privatisation the mess has only got worse.
Right so it isn't just purpose but region, just like the 313 and 314 and 315. Thank you. I did not realise there were so many 3-series vehicles, but were those not different generations? All these DMUs seem to have come out at the same time - but I will need someone to confirm that, because I do not want to do 30 Wikipedia searches (sorry). I see, the reason seems to be the different regions and uses of the DMUs, as well as the experimental era that happened when the WCML was electrified. (There was a YT video). Although when you say that the mess is getting worse, are you talking about the Desiros or something? I haven't seen the mess get to the point of having 30 different types of very similar looking trains recently, could you kindly elaborate? But above all, thank you everyone for helping me with this.
In the 1950s when many were designed there wasn't really a corporate look or many common design principles across different builders - in some cases different designs even had different couplings so they couldn't work together. Gradually cabs, windows and engines were standardised across several similar classes but this took a while. Units from the same builder (eg Derby, Metro Cammell) tended to look superficially the same but different classes were often quite different under the skin. Some licensed built DMUs had common appearances across classes and builders (Pressed Steel 117s and Derby 127 are easy to mistake for each other) but were mechanically very different even though they undertook almost identical outer suburban roles albeit on different regions. Some aspects of the later DMU design were ridiculous in hindsight, such as the widespread use of asbestos. That's why some units (trans Pennines) never made it into preservation. There was also a determination to put engines under the floor (for reasons of cost mainly) which meant many poorly insulated DMUs were noisy and unpleasant. Only the Southern put engines in separate compartments away from passengers. These were much better but not many were built due to rapid electrification in the South
Am I right in thinking this is also why EMUs like the 4CIG, VEP, CEP, and BEP look similar? I remember someone here said they wanted them in TSW, which is fine, but they said that while saying that the current crop of EMUs look the same, which I found extremely odd, given that the ones they were requesting also look very similar. Sorry I may have digressed...
The Southern Region was very conservative - and would rather stick to variations on a standard design. The CIG, VEP, REP and TC all have a common cab front end. They stuck with Mk1 based designs well into the 70s! Similarly pretty much everything apart from the REP had the same motors and traction gear. (REP motor cars were basically a 73 under the floor) Quite a few reused components from previous designs too.
Right - I guess it is much cheaper to not restyle trains all the time. The character of British railways (both current and bygone) is probably what I love most about them, especially how much things have changed over the years. Thank you everyone who answered, I now know a fair bit more about BR in the late 20th century.
They may look similar and many shared similarities but there were many differences too as alluded to above. However we only have one type in the sim and there were only a handful in TSC so they aren't at all well represented in the sims.
Well asbestos was used everywhere on the railways at that point, one can hardly call that a DMU-specific failing.
These are based on a single bodyshell but they use a Mechanical Gearbox or Hydraulic Gearbox. In the case of Class 127 DMU it has a panel for Mechanical Gearbox DMU Gear Change failure to do so results in a fire
On a related side note: I seek an answer to the question why all rail vehicles, at least from the BR era, have their front and back painted in yellow? And with astonishing POOR lighting? Is this supposed to be some signaling color? Did this somehow prevent accidents? Or even suicides? Hmmm ....
I think it was to reduce accidents. A bright yellow train is a lot easier to spot than a dark blue one.
Yes, but to be fair, their similarities would lead some to question why the resources weren't spent on a completely different loco, instead of a very similar one. Fire - I didn't realise they were that volatile! I think the poor headlights were to avoid dazzling oncoming drivers.
They were good units. Why change something that doesn't need changing? Same as the vep and cep's, a sight on Britain's railways for many years. Cost is a big factor, upgrading bits and bobs on current rolling stock is a lot cheaper than developing and building new stock from scratch.
You forgot the 4CEP which was the EMU used on 27 April 1986 Hastings Line electric service. Furthermore these are called slammers
Yeah, cost makes sense, but they had to be changed eventually. They look pretty dated when compared to the Desiros and IETs of today (not that that's a bad thing! ) I don't know how you know so much about the railways around the world. Whenever I see you post, you are like a human encyclopedia! How did you learn so much! And yes I didn't include the 4CEP because I didn't know it existed. I didn't know how to check for how many more EMUs there were because nobody ever uses their TOPS Class (e.g. Class 411 (thanks Moleman))
This is the UK everything is dated. They've only just got round to updating telecommunications in recent years, so we can enjoy the high speed Internet the rest of the world does. One of my neighbours is still burning coal! Even the rail infrastructure, again until recent years it was the same infrastructure as when It was layed decades ago.
Well I would rather be able to recreate realistic operations, which I assumed was one of the aims of a simulator. If a DMU is the wrong one for a route why is that less important than having the wrong loco for a route?! The class 101 is not the be all and end all of DMU's! Apart from the Chester based ones they would have been rare in Manchester in 1983 as depicted on NTP. None of the Manchester depots had them. There were in fact lots of subtle differences as well as some which make many look very different from each other.
It was to increase visibility to track workers. LOVE Lighting carried through from the steam era, it wasn't until the 70s that effort started to go into improving lighting. Now with modern lighting Yellow ends are now option if a train meets the current lighting standard.
I used to get railway magazines and Model Railway catalogues from the US UK and Germany the Marklin ones that's how I knew the designations 4CEP electrification voltages
Although my personal favourite DMU was the Class 120 Swindon built Cross Country units, the one type DTG should probably look at adding to the sim is the Class 108. These were quite widespread over the network and one of the last types to be withdrawn once Sprinter/Pacer deliveries were complete.
Oh yeah, forgot about that... but even still, apart from your neighbour (no offense please), everything is changing. You said yourself - we are getting new telecommunication infrastructure, and the rail infrastructure is getting relayed, so it was only inevitable that the rolling stock would be replaced. Although, I can understand nostalgia - I wish I could have ridden more of the D-stock (and I never got the opportunity to ride the Circle and Metropolitan Line before the S-stock came in). Then again, I may be biased since I was never alive when those old units were around, so I feel no nostalgia for them. I do agree - lots of subtle differences (especially that one that has the exhaust pipes in front of the cab!). However, those (like me) who miss important details and things (I drove the BML many times, and never noticed the missing track coming out of Redhill until I saw the forum post), and those people will see the DMUs as "the same." I think the issue that people will have is that, if there was another one of these DMUs made for a route, most people would much rather their money was spent on a completely new loco and therefore driving experience (such as a Pacer or Civicity). But who knows! Maybe I'm wrong, and if DTG play their cards right, then perhaps people will accept more old DMUs! Ah I see. I didn't realise magazines could have so much information within them! How do you remember it all? I can't remember all the American freight locos in TSW!
Why is it the 120 out of interest? I like the Class 121 because it is the one with the exhaust pipes on the front.
The 120's had a distinctive appearance. They were lovely comfortable DMU's to travel on. Although AEC engined they sounded quite different to Met Cam units and had the most awesome exhaust rasp on pullaway. They could be seen quite widely well at least on the Midland and Western, though they also reached East Anglia on Birmingham to Norwich and Cambridge workings. Scotland saw them used on Aberdeen to Inverness services for many years. Sadly they were an early candidate for withdrawal due to the asbestos situation. Apart from a trailer vehicle none were preserved. Class 120 DMU (railcar.co.uk) Class 120 DMU set 553 leaving Bristol TM. - YouTube (Audio clip)
Thanks for linking to that audio clip. What a fantastic sound. I would love to see on in the sim with a suitable route. Bristol to Weymouth would be great to see, extremely unlikely sadly. These two examples you have mentioned demonstrate how different classes could be. The class 121 a single car unit with exhaust pipes on one cab end and doors to each seating bay, designed for branch line and suburban operations. The class 120 was a very low density "cross country" design, usually run in 3 car sets. Fitted with buffets originally apart from one batch with only two doors per carriage. These were designed for long and middle distance services for example Birmingham to Cardiff. The class 122 also has exhausts on one cab end.
I take your class 120 Sir and raise you, to the mighty, the glorious 121! I do like the class 117 as well, they used to sound like old buses when you got on one but looking back they were iconic imo.
I can see a lot of love for the old DMUs, and while I'm too young to feel the same, I can understand why people miss them now that it has been explained here. Even though they looked (and maybe felt) identical to the travelling public, each still seems to have a charm of their own. Even Dhekelian changed their profile picture to one (which looks great BTW).
