Xbox Horrible Draw Distance

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by deanmacgregor, Sep 2, 2022.

  1. deanmacgregor

    deanmacgregor Active Member

    Joined:
    Oct 13, 2020
    Messages:
    280
    Likes Received:
    94
    Who is still labouring in the delusion that draw distance/scenery popping in is acceptable. We're into TS3 now and immersion is still constantly broken with full detail on scenery only popping into view a few feet away from the train. It is not ignorable when all manner of scenery is loading in while you're driving. We have things like little rain splashes being implemented taking priority over this main ongoing visible issue. It makes the game seem like it's still in testing or within early stages of development. While I write this, I'm watching the southeastern extension preview stream and whilst in the tunnel, there were white flashing blobs appearing. How is this remotely acceptable? Why did the hosts not explain it as it happened?
     
    • Like Like x 7
  2. AtherianKing

    AtherianKing Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,989
    Likes Received:
    3,637
    What console you play on will affect this, if u are using 8th Gen u can’t expect much improvement in this area
     
  3. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    928
    These graphical issues will not be fixed as long as TSW is on this engine. I do hope that in some dark corner, a few people at DTG are already experimenting with Unreal Engine 5. Unless there is a blank slate, a completely new game built on brand new technology, these issues will be inherited from version to version.
     
  4. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    2,589
    It's present on Series S and X. It gotten worse on gen9
     
    • Like Like x 2
  5. Wooki74

    Wooki74 Active Member

    Joined:
    Jul 9, 2020
    Messages:
    304
    Likes Received:
    216
    The shadow draw distance does appear to be not as far in front than it was in tsw 2 .
     
  6. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    2,760
    UE5 fundamentally will not fix any of these issues. Most of the problems with TSW are not present in any other UE4 game.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,924
    Likes Received:
    23,940
    Same on PC and looks awful if you turn shadows to low. They pop in about 100 feet in front of the train which then gives the appearance of being surrounded by a black shroud that moves with you.

    Just horrible, don't know how this got through artistic and QA testing.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  8. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2022
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    On SEHS i think shadow distances are pretty much the same as they've always been, but with the ambient light being so much brighter than it was in TSW2 it's a lot more pronounced now. The thing that really concerns me though is the detail draw distance. To get an idea of how poor this actually is, choose a late afternoon ICE service in a snow storm and cycle the camera backwards from the front of the train to see the exact point in which ground reflections from the high beams disappear. It's pretty terrible.
     
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2022
  9. zorbsie#9738

    zorbsie#9738 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 12, 2021
    Messages:
    130
    Likes Received:
    290
    I can live with some of the environment pop in, but seeing train cars pop in 15 meters away is a really bad look. This is on series X. Given their track record, this will never be fixed for TSW3. I can only hope TSW4 will be better in 2 - 3 years.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  10. NateDogg7a

    NateDogg7a Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 8, 2021
    Messages:
    524
    Likes Received:
    756
    Has anyone else also noticed the ballast on top of the sleepers "flowing," for lack of a better word, while driving? I have definitely noticed it on SEHS. As you move, the track, which appears completely ballasted, then develops bare spots where you can see the sleepers. In general I believe the sleepers between the rails should not be covered by loads of ballast. The "effect" is so inscrutable, I can't even tell what the track was intended to look like; even using the external camera, the ballast just moves constantly whenever you move. It's a pretty annoying effect. Series S
     
    • Like Like x 4
  11. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,924
    Likes Received:
    23,940
    Maybe not flowing, but there certainly seems to be some odd shading going on as you move, particularly over pointwork and a bit of a moire effect, noticed earlier this evening on Cajon.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  12. dreampage

    dreampage Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 29, 2018
    Messages:
    530
    Likes Received:
    928
    Well, if we assume that the developers would use Nanite and Lumen then most of the graphical issues would be automatically solved by UE5. Nanite would eliminate most of the pop-in while Lumen would take care of lighting and shadows. I don't take performance implications into account deliberately, because the engine will be optimized as time goes by, and such a game would be many years off anyway. But in theory UE5 could offer techniques out of the box that would basically eliminate many issues TSW has right now due to its very "manual" nature. Of course, Nanite isn't working with foliage currently so pop-in is still an issue but that's something that could very well work in the future.

    Another limitation of UE4 was that it was never designed with play areas like this, many kilometers in length but only a small distance across. It was designed with much smaller areas in mind that are more open in nature. This is also better handled in UE5, in theory. Lots of questions of course, but it's inherently a much more modern and flexible engine. Either way, it seems inevitable to switch to it sooner or later, as 4.26 won't carry on forever. Seeing the questionable quality of TSW 3 I'm now much more open to a brand new game, even if it would mean leaving all legacy content behind. I don't think the current technology can be fixed up properly, if it wasn't done for so long.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2018
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    750
    It's how they want the game to run am presuming. If we was told about increased draw distance it would of been in the announcement for TSW3 as a core feature.
     
  14. pveezy

    pveezy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 18, 2021
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    1,159
    One of the most glaring things is that shadows only seem to appear like 50ft in front of you (and this is on Gen 9)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    2,589
    Reduced draw distance was also not in the announcement for TSW3 :D
     
  16. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2018
    Messages:
    688
    Likes Received:
    750
    They didn't bring it up for possibly that reason :D
     
  17. whiteleym#4287

    whiteleym#4287 Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 4, 2021
    Messages:
    81
    Likes Received:
    123
    I'm on Gen 9 and the shadow pop-in was horrible on my Munchen - Augsburg run tonight, tree shadows were literally popping in 50ft in front of my train!

    Additionally I had a quick go on the tutorials for SoS and the AI locomotives and their rolling stock was loading in right next to my train as I was passing by it!

    Hopefully something can be done as it's immersion breaking as it stands.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  18. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2022
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    I've been playing through the older routes for some gamerscore and even with dynamic weather disabled it does become quite apparent that there's something very wrong with TSW3's optimisation on Series X. External cameras that pause for a split second whilst rotating, details *on the train that you're driving* rendering when you reset the external camera position, sub 40fps on routes that used to breeze 60fps, choppy gameplay and at GWE I witnessed something I've not seen since TSW2020....a visible horizontal draw distance line across all the rails on the not-so-distant horizon. There are also multiple times when it looks like you're driving into an area of sunlight, only for it to darken up as you get nearer, so I'm not really sure if that's another draw distance thing or the lighting going wonky.

    https://gamerdvr.com/gamer/boris-the-frog/video/164382838
    (GWE reduced detail draw distances across the rails)

    The thing that I'm really struggling to get my head around though is the fact that DTG assembled an army of beta testers in order to ensure things like this would be highlighted before release, yet here we all are.....I really can't wait to hear the excuses this time around.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  19. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    2,760
    Second all these issues, it's an absolute disgrace on Series X right now. And the reason I am playing, and enjoying my steady 60fps in, TSW2 right now.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  20. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2022
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    I'm going to slog it out until Postman Pat drops my Train Life preorder through the letterbox on September 22nd and call it a day with this one. I just like driving the trains in TSW so having 10,000km of railway track at my disposal has potentially unlimited appeal...and even though it's Kylotonn Games (who I absolutely loathe for turning WRC into shovelware) in disguise, I'm still looking forward to giving it a whirl.
     
  21. imstylinonyabro

    imstylinonyabro Active Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2021
    Messages:
    132
    Likes Received:
    114
    for devs so seasoned at beating the immersion horse, it is shocking it wasn't something being remotely looked at. nothing screams immersion like rolling into london and seeing buildings pop in or being on cane creek and looking out into the unreal engine abyss until a mountain pops in.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    2,589
    Has TSW2 been improved? I stopped playing TSW when I switched to Series S because the game looked terrible or at least not really a descent upgrade coming from PS4 Pro. On TSW3 the TSW2 routes have much better performance on Series S. But with better performance I don't mean the draw distance has become better, it has gotten worse.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  23. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2022
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    I think it must be a placebo thing because DTG have said all along that the move from TSW2 to TSW3 doesn't include any performance upgrades - it's effectively the exact same game with extra features tagged on.

    A slight backtrack on my comments regarding overall quality though because it appears that Tharander Rampe (which rather oddly handles shadows on the rails really well) and Dresden (Rush Hour) have suffered no ill-effects with their move into TSW3 so that's a slight positive.

    Whilst I'm in typing mode I may as well mention a couple more off-topic things that have cropped up during my achievement grabbing spree:
    (1) I still can't for the life of me the get dynamic weather to change from whatever I default it to on the older routes.
    (2) I'm also getting an increasing amount of routes that CTD during their loading process. These are not random crashes, the route fails to load however many times you select them. We're not talking huge amounts but those totals are now creeping up enough to make it a noticeable problem.
     
    Last edited: Sep 15, 2022
  24. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    2,589
    When I played TSW2 on Series S I got multiple times out of memory crashes and also a lot of stutters. Never had a crash with TSW3. I haven't played TSW2 since probably June. So this is my first encounter with TSW since June that's why I asked if TSW2 did improved a lot.
     
  25. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2022
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    Ah, I see. In that case no, TSW2 hasn't been updated since you last played it.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  26. Princess Entrapta

    Princess Entrapta Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 23, 2021
    Messages:
    2,236
    Likes Received:
    2,760
    Far from it having performance upgrades, it's mostly a performance downgrade to TSW3, the new features are clearly costly in terms of overhead, and it shows in the significantly reduced framerates seen in TSW3 vs TSW2.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. BBIAJ

    BBIAJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2019
    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    303
    Train Life: A Railway Simulator is developed by Simteract, and published by Nacon (who publish the WRC games), not Kylotonn.

    Kylotonn are French, and Simteract are Polish for a start.

    I've been playing Train Life since it was in Early Access on Steam (which it recently released out of), and Simtereact have been very honest and open with their roadmap and developer updates and patch notes.

    It's an interesting change of pace from the TSW games, as it plays mores along the lines of American/Euro Truck Simulator, as you own, manage, run, and operate a railway from your chosen European destination.

    I am very much looking forward to the full Orient-Express Train Edition on Xbox Series X, I hope you enjoy your time with it as much as I have so far.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  28. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    2,589
    It looks an interesting game but it looks like it will have much more problems at launch than TSW3 does. The avatars head in cockpit view is pure horror.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  29. BBIAJ

    BBIAJ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2019
    Messages:
    416
    Likes Received:
    303
    To be honest, I'm surprised it's launching so soon on console, I was expecting it to be some time next year at the earliest, as even when it came out of EA on Steam, that version wouldn't have stood up to scrutiny as a day one release on console.

    Maybe they've spent longer polishing up the console release for this reason, or it's being handled by a different internal team or external dev entirely, we shall just have to wait and see.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. antwerpcentral

    antwerpcentral Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 16, 2021
    Messages:
    2,044
    Likes Received:
    2,589
    I hope that game will survive. I won't be picking up this version but Train Life 2 might be up my alley. I like the manager gameplay, not sure if it will be any fun but it looks interesting
     
    • Like Like x 2
  31. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2022
    Messages:
    374
    Likes Received:
    1,007
    Next thing they'll be saying is X|S consoles are too old now and until Microsoft/Sony release gen10 we have to make do with a heavily compromised game.
    Nacon is Kylotonn Games - they were renamed after being bought out by (I think) Bigben. My deep loathing refuses to be rebranded :cool:

    But yeah, I've been following Train Life since very early access and was really pleased when a console release was confirmed a few months ago. Totally agree with you regarding developer transparency on their roadbook / community streams but hopefully they will honour their side of the bargain by continuing to develop the game after release.
    I've also preordered the version that includes Orient express so It'll be interesting to see how they implement it into the game when it arrives in (estimated) mid to late October
     
    Last edited: Sep 16, 2022
    • Like Like x 1

Share This Page