Wanted to drop in and say this was such a great deal. $5.99 for such a beautiful locomotive is a blessing. Im very happy. Keep it up.
I mean, its a well done model and all, just kind of a shame it was poorly planned out.....could of, should of, would of, but didn't.....
I just wish it wasn't so squeaky clean and had some coaches. I know it's to show off the gleaming bodywork but it's almost un-American
Yes, it's a beautiful repaint, but the whole dlc could have been much better. It could have hauled regular length consists, if it had been equipped with banking com, which would have enabled some helpers. And yes, a weathered version would have added some realism. ( but that would be true for most TSW locos. )
Yeah, out of the three add-on pack locomotives. The F7 is my favourite The RHTT is great too but I just wish the 66 was something else or at least a livery we didn’t have previously rather than EWS.
I mean it was only $5.99. Thats a great deal for a Santa Fe F7 complete with services and scenarios. Back in the TS days we paid $20 for a hand full of scenarios and one loco.
At least in TSC, some of those locos came with appropriate stock to run the scenerios with. DTG has 3 somewhat period accurate cars they could of thrown in with new paint since they couldn't do the passenger cars.
6 bucks for just a remodeled F7 in a shiny new paint, pulling modern freight for half of the consist length, and layers in alongside GEVOs and SD40s in timetable, is really not worth it.
Yet, based on what I've heard on what was said in a stream, this loco was PLANNED to be released with PROPER Passenger coaches. Which would be roughly the same value as a TSC DLC, but that plan was canceled due to the need to travel. So, instead of replacing the need to research passenger cars with the ALREADY modeled freight cars that came with Clinchfield, they decided to just throw modern stock on it. That's another reason why alot of us are upset at this loco.
Hadn't heard the F7 was supposed to be a full set that was cut-down. Disappointing to say the least. Really should have been delayed until they could release the full set, and, i don't know......done a period-appropriate reskin for Cajon. SD70ACE, AC4400CW, even a Geep would have been better.
It is a good DLC. It adds a lot to the route. I’m well aware of all the criticisms that are strangely being repeated here for no good reason, but as this thread was started as a celebration of the excellent loco, I thought I would also say that I am enjoying it very much. The AI drivers need reminding to turn their lights on though. I think it is a much better addition than a slightly different modern AC loco being added, that would have been rather dull. Now though we have three very different driving experiences for the freight on the route and that’s a big win. Cheap as chips too, which is great.
IDK if it was going to be a full set or not, but if they needed a trip to the US to do research, it makes me wonder what they originally had planned
Several people said it already but they didn't have the reference it seems so they were required to fly to the us and get the photos and reference material which wasn't possible since that takes a lot of planning and time to do
Ah, that's too bad. Could they have not done the research from the internet? I am sure it is all available to find. There are a myriad of railway enthusiast, restoration, & information sites out there. You can find almost everything you are looking for as far as specs and images goes. I do model railroading also and research stuff on the net frequently for assorted modelling and historical information projects.
DTG have built up a decent network of States- side contacts over the years with all the 3rd party TSC developers. It's surely not necessary for anyone to travel to California. from Chatham, if that's what is meant. Hm. Remind me of the last thread that started out as a celebration and turned into a complete lovefest. When someone starts out praising a loco dlc that we all know is seriously flawed, you have to expect criticism. As I said above, it's a gorgeous repaint and I, too, am enjoying it, especially as it's so ubiquitous on the route. But you have to admit, 20 or so cars is not a typical consist, whether they're appropriate or not and you'll remember how the poor thing struggled without the benefit of helpers on CRR.
The new pack being a bundle is probably what saved it. By allowing you to buy each train for a very reasonable £5 new players can get new trains cheaply, even if they aren't new trains. But because of the latter the bundle is pointless for existing players - if I had TSW3 I'd probably get the F7 as I didn't own Clinchfield, but as for the other two trains I'd see little reason to get them.
DTM, who lives somewhere in South America was somehow able to put together the Budd Hi Levels when he made the Amtrak SDP40F pack for TSC years ago. (Which was also reused for the ATSF pack, though it needed more work such as the missing drum head). I would assume Gary Dolzall would also be able to help in someway for reference materials in the US.
This is how I feel. I'm having fun with it and that's good enough for me. I don't personally know much about US railroading besides what's in the game, so it doesn't bother me about timetables and stuff as long as the gameplay is fun. Even with Diesel Legends, knowing it's inaccurate with time periods, I still have good fun thrashing BR Blue Diesels between Paddington and Reading.
That's a fair point about if you don't know US railroads the F7 is probably a lot more enjoyable. I was blissfully unaffected by the whole "wrong-Dosto fiasco" a while back since my German railroad knowledge is quite basic. I will try to keep this in perspective and be more positive.
In the end off the day, those who know, are annoyed by the decisions, and are frustrated by it, while those who don't, aren't as effected by it. Still, hope DTG looks for better options in the future other than taking the easy route.
A shame indeed by the end of it. Hopefully DTG will do see this to make sure there will be no more shortcuts like this again in the future, no matter how diverse in variety they wanted it to be.
I haven’t done loads with the f7 as yet but I was running another consist and it was like being out in the car and seeing a classic car on your travels. I can see it’s not necessarily representative but I guess some of the rail tours aren’t always either. I personally see the F7 as a little Easter egg on the pass. I’m looking forward to playing a passenger service and seeing a RHTT pass by. In terms of feedback I think a blend of true to life loco dlc and then some Easter egg trains nestled in is really nice and similar to keeping an eye out for donkeys
I think the real appeal of the Santa Fe F7 is that it permits any user to own and drive this great engine (great both IRL and as one of DTG's more successful models), without having to own Clinchfield which isn't to the taste of many. The historical niggler in me of course has a problem with the use of Warbonnet instead of Bluebonnet, but then this thing is conceived in-game as a museum demo anyway.
In reality, since the loco is based on 347C, would of been more appropriate for it to be in the Yellow and Silver Warbonnet scheme. The Santa Fe was really weird when it came to their F-Unit colors post 1971.
Question: If we argue that the consist doesn't need to be accurate then why do we need a ATSF F7 in the first place? Why not just layer in the Clinchfield F7 instead? It's no less accurate then what we've got now, would be a nice bonus for Clinchfield owners, while also incentivizing new players to buy that route.
Well, a Clinchfield- liveried F7 on a Western mountain route would be really out of left field. Too odd for even the most rabid US freight fan. Must be Halloween.
It would definitely be less accurate than what we have now. Saying a Clinchfield F7 is no less accurate than a Santa Fe F7 on this route is daft. You may want to argue that going much further from what ‘real’ enthusiasts will accept as accurate is the same but you won’t win that argument. It’s a Santa Fe F7 pulling some freight, and all players can take it or leave it. Being forced to see a CRR F7 on the route in a layer would be worse for those who are complaining that this isn’t good enough. Much worse. Also, the whole point of DLC is for DTG to make money so just adding a layer that nobody wants for free is not a better solution for anyone than adding a DLC that some people will like that makes money.
I have to agree. A lot of us play this game for and because of the realism and accuracy. It is expected. If it was just any hokey stuff on whatever route a lot of the customer/fan base would be lost. We are paying for some reasonable and true semblance of reality that respects history and actual operations. Without that it’s not a simulator at all. It’s just more bogus digital entertainment.
They're the same type of engine though, and there is in fact a Clinchfield F7 (or maybe a late F3, which is incredibly similar anyways) in excursion service. Big Boys didn't run in regular service on Cajon either, yet one did run down there a few years ago anyways. Stock in excursion service can, and often does leave its home territory. I'd absolutely argue it's just as plausible as big Class 1 like BNSF putting multiple museum's worth of F7s on a modern freight trains. I would also note there's some precedent for this, in the form of the MP36 layer for Oakville they've been planning. What makes a CalTrain in Canada ok, but Clinchfield in Cajon a big no-no? You say that as if they couldn't put in some sort of in-game toggle for it. But not only could they do so, we already have that in a way in the form of the Add-ons Manager. The idea that something needs to be behind a pay wall for such functionality is silly. I'd argue they could use that layer to help sell Clinchfield to newer customers. Could also argue that maybe for some old TSW2 owners that could be enough for them to grab Cajon. Granted I don't want that sure, but I didn't want the ATSF F7 either, nor did most of the Steam reviews for that matter. But I want more realism out of my packs, and same goes for most people that made those reviews. If we go with the logic that the ATSF pack isn't meant for me or them, then fair enough. But why are we suddenly drawing a line and saying "no one would buy that" now? Surely the argument would apply here as well. I have to imagine there's people who give zero flips about what livery the engine they're driving's using. DTG must think that as well because of the use of the MP36 on Oakville.
CRR No. 800 was built as an F3, but factory-upgraded into an F7. While she certainly does run excursions, she only does so on CSX trackage.
And I'm honestly surprised we don't have a CSX timetable for Clinchfield, maybe have 800 run the Santa train on the line or something in TSW.
Never know though, some California billionaire could be the biggest Clinchfield fan in the world and buy it tomorrow! Seriously though, keep in mind I'm not saying it would anything close to likely, but it ain't impossible, and that's really the point I want to make. If you accept the ATSF F7 as being fitting then really there isn't much you can argue that wouldn't fit in the world of this train sim.
Mentioning reality here sparks my annoyance at the crazy-low speed limits present on most of the freight runs. Gorgeous double track runs in excellent condition with minimal corners, and we have to limit ourselves to 25MPH or sometimes even less... In my not so modest opinion, there is nothing cooler than a pair or a set of AC4400's hauling butt at 45MPH or even a bit faster. They are loud, powerful and majestic machines, and there's a reason they were built to churn out that massive HP. I get the feeling it is done to slow down the scenario, and make it last a longer time, but that doesn't make up for the lack of serious freight hauling. If you have the HP in the consist, then let's be able to use it!! OK, off the soapbox...
If anything, DTG could of used another more appropriate modern loco for the pack, theb spent the time researching ATSF 3751 for a standalone Steam DLC for Cajon. At least she has pulled excursions on Cajon Pass in the past and has hauled modern freightcars on a few occasions as well....
It certainly is a fine engine. Would be good if we could make something like this. (If we had a consist editor!)
If there was ever a route which would be well-served by an alternative period timetable pack, it's definitely Clinchfield. The scenarios on Creators Club give me a taste of what it would be like. Cheers
You won't find many here, especially Canadians, who think that the Caltrain MP36 running on Oakville Sub is " OK ". But it will certainly be less of an eyesore than the Clinchfield F7 on a Western Mountain route, that's for sure.
To the best of my knowledge, those are the real-life speed limits. Freight speeds are about more than derailments, even more than safe descents of steep grades. In many cases they are there to preserve the trackage, because long, heavy freight trains at high speeds can pound it to bits. A classic example is the Moab Spur (Cane Creek) - not a main line and so not built to an especially heavy standard, and even those relatively short consists of loaded dirt hoppers could tear it up in short order if they ran at 55, even over a pretty straight and level run.
I suppose you are correct on that. My experience is around northwest Illinois, dealing with CP and BNSF lines. They are up in the 40-50 range in most places, but again like you mentioned those are mainline runs. Basically, I just find it more fun to run em a little bit on the faster side. I get docked points when I do it of course, but it gets it out of my system for a while...!
Um, No. Just NO! End\ This is, and would always be, more than completely unacceptable. We do not want recycled totally irrelevant US trains on our only Canadian route. They don't run up and here like that and never will. Not even in a game. It is an absolutely foolish notion that anything other than a Canadian passenger train should be running in game on a Canadian route. If VIA and GO won't cooperate, then do unlabeled versions of them or do a DTG specific service that mimics them. But NO US trains on Canadian routes except as may be owned by CN or CP in international service. Which is pretty much restricted to the odd out of country loco in a mainline long haul lash-up. Realism and authenticity MUST remain a focus and a point of creation. This isn't Disney Land of trains with all kinds of oddball nonsensical stuff travelling on the same line. Wow, I can't believe anyone would think this remotely acceptable.
You do realize DTG have confirmed that's a thing they're working on, right? I'm pretty sure it's on the roadmap, there was even a thread asking about it not too long ago which Matt replied to confirming it's still coming. You don't like, and nor do I, but saying it ain't ever coming to the sim is just inaccurate.
DTG already accepts that they won't do unbranded locos for TSW. If they have either of the licenses, they would've done it differently by now. At this point, seems like compromise is becoming more of a common trait for TSW in realism these days, more so for the NA side now. Whether it's an F7 pulling modern freights, or a Baby Bullet Train on Canadian tracks.
Yes I read that.... still doesn't make it right. Just makes them look like idiots in the eyes of Canadian users. My statement was abstract, not literal or absolute.
There's nothing to fear. The new timetable will be a separate timetable; it will not replace the existing one but rather give you the option which to drive. There is no loss for anyone here. Cheers
https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/busier-or-more-accurate-timetables.45135/ This one is an interesting one. Looks like superior modelling does not excuse S-F timetables with fantasy trains eg the SF F7 for modern CJP freight ops.
Well, I suppose that is kind of good news. But going one better... if the loco and cars are available in LD then I can custom paint and run them as a non US equip't. ;-) I suppose you're right, not really a loss, but not really a win either. I am still against US trains on Canadian tracks / routes unless it is a real practice, and in Oakville to the best of my knowledge - it is not.
I really don't get why DTG are so picky about doing unbranded content when they're perfectly fine with hosting unbranded content from third parties. All a lawyer's gonna see is that DTG are hosting unlicensed content, they aren't gonna care if they technically didn't develop it. If they really cared about that side of things they'd ban third parties from doing it as well.
