New British Routes Speculation

Maybe half the gameplay is trying to navigate the mess that is Birmingham New Street station/ shopping centre as a passenger, getting confused with those infuriating coloured zones. I always use the quiet footbridge at the end of the station to avoid that nonsense, or better yet change somewhere else.

It's also the only station where a member of staff has ordered me to stop photographing trains, even though they have no right to, and I've spent countless hours at other big stations with no issues. It's a dreadful place, not looking forward to revisiting it in TSW3.

Sorry to any Brummies I may have offended. I will say that Moor Street on the other hand is a lovely station. I'd have certainly taken a route through there over Cross City.

 

Well I guess have to hope for rivet games route. Hopefully is a better route than cross city. Not what I had envisioned for tsw3 at this point. But is all a guessing game now.

 

Birmingham as a whole is horrible. Sent most of my time travelling on the Cross City Line. Happily live North Wales and only have to go to Birmingham a couple times a year now.

 

Dtg did explain that the sounds of the 323 were like that cuz they didn't have any sound engineers so they had to use people from other teams to make the sound so they couldn't create the iconic sound lol.

 

Dtg are hush hush cuz of the incident with rush hour. It was announced too early, content got cut on dra (the meissen branch came in a free update) but it doesn't take away the fact dtg didn't deliver what they promised. The release dates for staggered and there were numerous bugs on release that are still present today. Dtg don't want to make the same mistake of announcing a dlc too early and then cutting content out.

 

Agreed Birmingham is an dump!

 

A key feature of the route should be the Lickey Incline where the Class 66 needs to be used as a Banker engine (US Helper engine) uphill side towards Birmingham & Lichfield from Bromsgrove.
Video of Lickey Incline

 

Why do people like you treat this as if it's a binary thing? You know DTG could announce a route without needing to fully confirm everything about it right? Also if we're talking about managing expectations surely it makes sense in a case like the achievements leaking to come out and confirm it, and give some details on what they can confirm at this point. After all, even if the route's not fully finalize, there's still stock and locations that are gonna appear for sure. Also redrev has a pretty good point of his own in my opinion.

 

They could have made a network by including Coventry to Birmingham and both routes into Walsall, from Hamstead towards Bescot offering another route to the depot at Soho. Then if you're including Bromsgrove might as well have carried on to Worcester, all of which would still probably add up to less than the route mileage on SEHS.

Regardless of the extent, hopefully we will still get AI traffic on and off the other routes albeit 323's and Walsall services via Hamstead should also be driveable between there and New Street and vv.

 

Apparently this was posted on DTG's official TSW Twitter.


ECML?
I know it's just some art by Tom Connel but if they posted this then they could be hinting...?

 

As discussed above, it's all but confirmed one of the new routes will be Birmingham Cross City with Class 323 units.

Re the ECML artwork, this has been discussed and opinions are divided, could just be something knocked up with no direct connection to what might be in the pipeline. Though I will happily take the Deltic if it is! Even an outside chance ECML or a part thereof could be Just Trains brain child. Didn't they sponsor Newcastle to Edinburgh for TSC and they also did Edinburgh to Dundee.

What we don't know is if BCC as it is going to be known as, is the Rivet route or DTG's own in house offering. Now idle speculation here, I do wonder if BCC was originally intended to be the new UK route as part of TSW3 but something slipped and that's why we ended up with extended SEHS instead?

 

CСL was not my favorite in anticipation of a new route, but I can not say that I am very upset. I'm sure it will be an exciting experience. If the electric train, sounds, schedule, environment and lighting are done to a high standard, we will get a wonderful route and an exciting journey. My first day purchase. Fingers crossed and waiting for the announcement.

 

The issue probably comes down to number of stations that need modelling which will be another constraining factor for development. The CCL has I think 25 stations which is more or less the same number as BML albeit in something like 60% of the mileage.

 

Utter rubbish! Birmingham has been rejuvenated in recent years and is still being so. It has a good mixutre of old and new buildings, they are regressing some of the concrete jungle created in the 60's and 70's and expanding the tram network. It has lots of arts and culture and is a great place for a night out.

If it was a dump it wouldn't have been selected to host the Commonwealth Games!

 

I agree I would love to see it extended to Worcester, or even Hereford as many trains from New Street terminate there. There are new diesel trains about to be launched on the Hereford service.

Coventry to Wolverhampton via Walsall could also be added as you say and it would be a nice network with lots of variety and would make New Street that little bit busier.

I do feel it would have been good to have had more than just the Cross City line but as a route in itself it is quite interesting and quite a busy line. Although if the AI runs the trains on time it won't represent reality from the regular comments I see from commuters!

Personally I would have loved to see the Snow Hill lines. The class 172's have quite distinctive sounds with their automatic gearboxes. Pulling away from Old Hill up the bank on a damp Autumn morning would be quite a challenge, you often feel and hear the trains struggle for adhesion.

 

If it is the brum cross city, it will be seriously underwhelming.

 

Sorry, but can someone show any evidence that it's cross city?

 

londonmidland posted this

 

It would appear pretty conclusive. Although of course there might be more to it than the leaked achievements suggest, or less even!

 

The Snow Hill lines would be great but I fear people would revolt at the sight of us getting what is essentially a diesel version of the electrostar (especially the WMR Class 172s with the narrow cab views).

 

I would guess SEHS was chosen because the original route seriously needed updates, and it was easier to extend SEHS to get a long route than build something else from scratch (one of the focuses of TSW3 is longer core routes). Probably some local bias too as it's DTG's home route.

 

Just Trains are based in Huntingdon, on the ECML between Peterborough and London. It would make sense, being local to the area, that they model part of that route (perhaps as a starting project in collaboration with DTG whilst they learn the editing tools?).

 

Re the narrow cab view post above..
The narrow cab view problem is annoying. I hope in time they will create a cab view with no cab, with an overlay of the required gauges, like Hmmsim...it does this v well.

 

Not the most exciting loco in the world but a Class 170 would be a really sensible loco for TSW given the layering possibilities. Used widely and easily adapted into Class 168 (functionally identical I think) and Class 171 (change of coupler type). Would layer into many, many possible routes in the future with little work.

The 170 I think is in use on with Cross Country on the Cross-City, but a Southern variant could be used on BML and ECW and a Scotrail variant could be AI on Cathcart.

 

At least there would be some variety. Everyone has what they see as being desired but ultimately DTG and the other developers call the shots. I have long hoped for Glasgow to Edinburgh in the mid to late 80s but ultimately I guess that it will be done in the present day and thus rule out any historical version. I am pretty confident that will be the case with most content now.

 

True, we do also have the ex Chiltern and Overground 172's which have the same front as the class 170's. They turn up regularly so both could feature, although I suspect DTG wouldn't model both types.

I haven't checked them closely but I assume the Electrostar body could be used as the basis.

Or backdate the route ten years or so and supply class 150's.

 

Yes I fear the days halcyon days where we got two BR blue DLC's in a row have long gone. I also notice that those moaning and gnashing their teeth at the time, groaning at the direction TSW seemed to have taken in releasing these boring ancient old relics, are now proferring a deathly silence on the mattter!

 

Assuming it is Birmingham Cross City, I have the 1981 GBTT courtesy of "Hellfire" so will definitely be looking to set up a few "Off The Rails" scenarios based on that. Class 101's on the Cross City. A Class 45 hauled NE/SW in each direction, maybe even have a SSO at Bromsgrove to start there then the infamous Vern's "token diversion" via Lichfield. Class 47 and Mark 2's coming in from the Coventry direction and out towards Wolverhampton due to the OLE down at Stechford. This assuming of course we get a good selection of starting and terminating points to use Scenario Planner effectively. (DTG hopefully monitoring and listening). Even if we don't get SP2.0 anytime soon, this route is definitely a case where user access to the spawning and takeout portals becomes essential.

 

Routes that had 5 or more traction types to drive with more than one handle required to control the train. What puzzles me is 37s etc still attract many younger enthusiasts turning out to film thr real thing as well as other older traction but when it comes to TSW3 it's ECML please, voyagers desiros and Flirts etc. There's going to a be a lot of modern Cathcart style empty routes unless DTG start doing 2 or 3 trains on release. The DB stuff is way ahead, despite its detractors you can sit at Duren and watch every train be formed of something different for instance. By switching era in the UK constantly we are miles behind Germany now with variety on routes.

 

Or "I wanna" GWE with Edward the "nobody loves me" 387 Electrostar and the Hitachi Japanese Knotweed (gets everywhere and you can't get rid of it).

 

Hmm, not my first choice for a route but I’m certainly interested. Will decide once I’ve seen more than what’s been posted. I’m glad they’ve finally broken the London/South Eastern shackles too, but we’ll be back around London soon, I’m sure..

It’ll be interesting to see if it’s DTG or Rivet who are working on BCC, personally I do think it’s DTG. I also can’t wait to see what JT and ATS have up their sleeves.

 

That knotweed is inevitable....

 

The class 101 would be fun to drive on the Cross City especially keeping up with the schedules, shame there isn't a class 116 available. Taking some heavy trains up the Lickey would be fun, I suspect you hardly notice it in a class 323.

 

WEll they didnt have it in the TSC version but until they make the official announcement then we will have to wait and see. Although in theory we should see some RHTT operation on there. There is some freight as it goes up the lickey bank (steepest incline in Britain.... apparently) Not sure what freight goes up there although I'm thinking at Longbridge isnt that the car plant there?

 

In the model railway scene youngsters seem to often be seen operating steam and BR period layouts so I don't know why it doesnt seem to carry over to the world of train simming. Although I get the feeling many of the steam loco creators for TSC are/were young, certainly younger than me.

 

Thats what livery creator is for!

 

Longbridge is a shadow of its former self, most of it is an industrial/retail park now. I don't know if MG even assembly kits on site now or if they are imported complete from China. I am not sure there is much if any freight traffic going there now. Quite a lot of freight does use the route though from what I have seen in WTT's, most of it avoiding New Street via the Camp Hill line (I think it is called).

 

Re freight, depends when exactly the route is set, but going back a few years a fair bit of metals traffic to/from Humberside and the North East. Coal from Portbury and Avonmouth up to the Midlands power stations. Also some network traffic and while it lasted the Swindon to Longbridge car traffic. The RHTT also based out of Kings Norton. A fair bit of the freight operated at night when a banker was positioned at Bromsgrove for a full shift. Outside those hours ran down from Saltley or Bescot by arrangement. Finding a margin for a 1500 tonne freight up the Lickey banked from a standing start not great in the middle of 2 X XC SW/North services an hour, the hourly Cardiff to Nottingham and the hourly Hereford/Worcester to New Street for London Midland.

One interesting quirk of operating Cross City services (observed from the Western Route TRC perspective) was that the regulating instructions actually gave these priority over late running Class One services between New Street and Kings Norton and vv. so as not to carry pertubation from elsewhere into West Midlands local services, racking up 100's of delay minutes and/or requiring drastic pruning to recover the service.

 

I think you might be right. I can't see Matt geting this excited about this route but I can't see Rivet games making it ether so I wonder which Dev made it or is going to make it.

 

I hope it has a
Class 390
Class 170
Class 323
Class 350

Probably too many trains so not likely but I would really like it if it has a Class 390. It has to have a Class 323 because there is an achievement for that but I wonder what else

 

I doubt there will be any extra trains apart from maybe a class 66 and some freight wagon.

They aren't going to make a class 390 just to sit statically in New Street. I don't think class 350's work the Cross City, they certainly didn't, as far as I know it is all class 323's which are to be replaced by some new wonderful contraption this year and the are going to the North West to join the other class 323's.

Class 170's run the route down to Worcester and Hereford, they are in the process of being replaced by class 19 something or other. Class 170's also operate the Nottingham to Cardiff cross country service so that is two versions to be seen. I doubt DTG are going to make one just for this route.

Voyagers of course operate on the route and I assume cross country HST sets. I guess a reliveried GWR one could be used.

 

I'm not deathly silent but I can't say I'm not pleased with the direction TSW is taking in terms of the kind of UK content. I just wish they were releasing more of it. 8 or 9 months between releases and the death of loco DLC means it will take the best part of a decade before we get a good and wide variety of UK regions and traction.

The last brand new UK release was a historic route set in the 1950's and the one before that (from Rivet) in the 90's so it's not all 'modern plastic'. There is a very good mix of eras and traction, just not enough of it. Hopefully more 3rd party devs can help with this.

 

Yeah, just a shame they don't tend to appear in timetable mode

 

Oooo. I would love to see some voyagers!

 

Class 350s do the Trent valley so could see a 350 up to Aston before they branch off

 

True but are DTG going to put time and effort into making a unit which runs for about ten minutes on the route?

 

Logically a 170 would be the choice as a second train pack. New Street to Bromsgrove calling at Uni and occasionally Barnt Green for London Midland/WMT would still be a decent run. AI for Cross Country coming in at Stoke Works portal running out the other side of New Street to Landor Street portal. Likewise could be used to represent services from New Street towards the Leicester direction.

Must admit I'm getting quite pumped for this now, looks as if £25 of the money I had ready in my Steam Wallet for the as it turned out non existent Halloween sale now earmarked for this, assuming release in the next few weeks.

 

Yes I agree that UK content, well all content really has slowed down. Maybe it will pick up now TSW3 is released.

Yes Spirit of Steam of course was the big thing this year, although by the lack of fixes and any sign of DLC on what is a woefully quiet route you wonder if DTG have quietly forgotten it.

WCL, well where to start, it certainly doesn't represent early 1990's Cornwall from what I can see with the main express passenger train missing and totally unrepresentative and unrealsitic layers.

But I take your point there hasn't been a totally new "modern" piece of DLC for some time and I certainly don't begrudge it. I don't dislike modern routes anyway, I generally enjoy driving trains in whatever form they take, it is just my main interest is in British Railways and the BR blue/sectorisation period.

Depending on how it looks on release and what the package includes, BCC might be the DLC which makes me reinstall TSW and purchase TSW3.

Ideally I would hope that the sim will cater for people of all tastes equally. I suppose we shouldn't complain as there are many countries who have no representation in any train simulator.

 

I'd be really interested to know the reasons why DTG choose the DLCs they do. I wonder if there are technical reasons behind them not wanting to do ECML or WCML yet, or something else?

There does seem to be something of a reticence to make the routes people are asking for (they've even acknowledged that the two above are the most requested UK routes I think), and I'm sure there's a good reason for it - I'm just curious as to what it is.

For the same reason I'm wondering why we still haven't seen a Class 700 even though folk have been clamouring for it to fill the gaps in the BML / SEHS timetables (or is it just me making all the noise?)

Of course feel free to disagree if you think I've misrepresented the community there

 

Cross City has been talked about before so I wouldn't say it wasn't on their radar. It has recently been released for TSC so they have a lot of recent reference material for it, assuming this is their release.

I agree about a class 700, same as the SOS DLC, but DTG do stay tight lipped so they could be in planning we just don't know it. Maybe they have deduced that BML will fall over if any more layers are added to it. A shame if so as, despite being modern it could be my favourite TSW route as the 700 almost would be the icing on the cake.

I am sure parts of the ECML and WCML will come, maybe they are slowly building up to it. If you discount the two versions of part of it by Keith Ross for TSC it took from 2008 to 2019 (or was it 2018) for DTG to make a stretch of it for TSC.