New British Routes Speculation

Why such negativity? Its a lovely route and worthy of inclusion, with the fixes in place for the save game it comes ever closer to fruition. Although I am sure you'll agree with the shortest run end to end being just 8 days a save function is hardly a prerequisite!!

 

The scenery would pose little problem as well, a win, win!

 

Fair enough I had presumed they are shouts for the whole lot which I have seen somewhere over time. After a while I gave up on the suggestions forum as it was ECML, WCML, Merseyrail and repeat or at least thats what I think I read!

But like I have said earlier if the imcumbent operator doesnt want to licence then thats an issue, nevermind the emptiness of it all. Maybe the WCML is on the cooker as the 323 would beef it up around the West Midlands...Still need a lot more though!

 

Would be nice if DTG included 13 locos as a DLC in the future to celebrate 13 years of Dovetail rail games

 

Only 1 per year, I think they can and should do better. How about 1 loco for every month over the last 13 years? I mean what's 156 new locos between friends? Its not like I am being unreasonable and asking for 4,745 which would be 1 for every day of the companies existence.

 

No Negativity. Can't believe you think it is. I know the CCL really well use to run on that line nearly every week. More referring to you saying WCML ECML to come as one package is never going to happen.

 

Out of interest, how much reference was done for this route by visiting the real life route and train, or was there a bit of 'this is how it looks in TSC, so we'll do the same for TSW'?

I ask because with the TSC version, there was quite a few inaccuracies with both the Class 323 and route itself.

Not criticism at all, I'm genuinely interested in how this route was built for TSW 3

 

So I can assume its coming by the end of November?

 

To clarify do you mean the route is too long or the period of time since TSW3 is too long? I've read it a few times and can't work out what you mean, although it's late and my mind isn't functioning to well

 

Its been advertised as coming out on the 15th of November.

 

Surely a big route deserves more resources and time spent on it? The payoff would be worth it, no..?

If we had known a EC or WCML route was in the works, I'm almost certain we would be happy to wait until it's right.

See above, but once JT and ATS start knocking out content, does that essentially "free up" more time with DTG to work on EC or WCML routes, or is that why ATS was brought in, they've done WCML and ECML haven't they? JT seems to love the MML too (as do I).

How far ahead do you plan, a year? Surely there comes a point where you have to make time and find space on the schedule for it or it'll never come.

I'm sure I'm wrong but it feels like DTG are happy to get "quick win's" rather than dedicate time on a bigger project like the ECML/WCML.

 

Thank you Matt.

I do have a question if I may please. In relation to this cross country route and any future are they now being built differently so extensions in the manner of SEHS can now be bolted on easier in the future?
Could that make unnamed routes easier to build in stages or is too much of a faff time wise?

I don't recall seeing it being asked anywhere before and I'm assuming SEHS with the high play rate recently published was a commercial success?

 

I hear what you say Matt and despite my reservations expressed in the other thread I may still get this on Day 1 if it's not a silly price. Certainly true the route has been requested in the Suggestions forum more than a few times. However just seems this should have gone the extra mile. Not expecting the BVE style West Midlands network, but come on not having the line out to the main depot is a major omission. More so than Cathcart any line around Birmingham is going to look bare without additional rolling stock. At the least a Voyager and Class 170 as any run out towards Longbridge direction is almost inevitably going to have you passing one of these. New Street needs to be alive and vibrant, constant stream of trains coming and going, announcements going off every few seconds, hustle and bustle of people everywhere.

Oh and a driveable canal boat!

 

I am intrigued to see how much of New Street is modelled. I'm thinking of Harlem and Grand central not having the upper concourse modelled. I'd go so far to say in the same way as Grand Central, the upper concourse and shops will look really odd if they are quiet and if I recall from my time in this station you'd need the concourse to walk into the differing platform zones upstairs?

I'm hoping there are some layer treats in here and looking forward to seeing what's what in a couple of days.

 

I guess folks are happy to have all runs on green lights and bare mainline stations. It's great that Matt comes on and explains some thought behind the release. This is one of the busiest stations in the country though and will be looking like T3s on all routes bar Cross City. I can't see me buying this for any reason even on sale unless some mystery x factor is lurking....

 

With regard to running on greens, if not doing a one off Journey run, the devil in me might introduce a little pertubation by leaving Redditch 10' late, a bit of station overtime at Selly Oak while the chavettes get their baby buggies on board. 25' late by Lichfield...

 

Thank you Matt. I do have a concern that seems lately on both TSW3 and TSC I’m hearing the same that it all comes down to cost an Time to produce it. I hear you and thats business. But I do believe sometimes we need to invest in order to grow. I know the rush hour had lots of issues but to be honest that’s what got me into TSW2. Those 3 routes are on my top list of as they have the variety.. I’m not sure what the outcome was as far profits but I would pay double for a route. And please don’t that to negatively. I think all these post are good for the game and it’s future. I will keep buying good content. But hopefully in the future we can expand and go back to some routes that need gaps filled in. Anyways thank you for what you guys do. You guys got me into train simulator and I do appreciate it.

 

There have been many complaints on here about the lack of recent UK content, I think there would have been a lot of moaning if DTG announced they were making the ECML or WCML and it wasn't going to be released till next March!

Personally I am happy with the Cross City line as it is an interesting route and the class 323 quite a characterful train for a modern EMU. Pre covid it had an intense timetable so should be busy even with one train.

 

As mentioned, I shall put my "Mr Pertubator" or as I was known in the Control "The Destroyer" hat on, see if it's possible to mix things up a bit. That's where a "Chaos Mode" would really score on a route like this, so if you're running 20' late on a Lichfield service you get the option to turn round at Four Oaks or maybe run fast to recover the lost time.

I just hope we get a decent number of start and end points so those of us who want to attempt a 1981 style* classic diesel timetable won't be thwarted by lack of paths. Access to the entry and exit portals would be nice too, as I already suggested.

And I wasn't entirely joking about chugging along in a canal boat, train spotting as you go. TSW needs an interactive spotters'/bashers' notebook so you can clear the traction units you've driven. Could be a nice little Steam achievement, actually.

* My first run to Redditch was in 1976** doing a Midland Rover ticket for a week. Mon to Fri service only ran during the peaks, so you had to do it on a Saturday when there was an out and back shopper's trip around 1200 from New Street. Class 121 or Class 122 bubble car on its own if I recall.

** Now I feel really old!

 

Well great news regarding the busy, realistic timetable and it sounds like plenty of adverse signals to keep us on our toes. Approach control is a must and I'm glad it's implemented as in reality (for all new TSW routes now). Just need to update those speed signs!

 

We've got a second UK route coming out which has yet to be announced. If DTG came out and said we're making an ECML route which we're working hard on and won't be out until late Q1 or early Q2 2023, people would be cool with it. (I know they don't announce dates until they're certain but for arguments sake..). In that scenario, 2 UK routes in 5 months is pretty good actually.

Alas, this doesn't matter as currently we're not getting anything like that so, hey ho!

 

People might be, but this is a business, they need turnover in the short(er) term to keep solvent.

 

So in the case (which I totally get), we'll never see an ECML or WCML route as it costs too much and takes longer to build. There needs to be a point in the life of TSW where the 3rd Parties can keep the money coming in over a year or so while DTG build a ECML/WCML or vice versa.

 

We will get it at some point in separate shorter sections. It just requires some time to make.

 

How about a tour of the Cadbury factory?

 

DTG Matt, Will you be posting images or videos on you guys doing research about the route IRL. You did that previously and I found it to be very interesting. If your not would you concider doing it in the future?

 

My first thought when I saw Matt posted.
“Wow! Matt Looked in this thread!”.
Lol. It's always nice to see the Devs looking at our thoughts and suggestions.

 

I must admit I was disappointed with what seemed to be another one ‘loco’ suburban route with “green signals all the way”. However, Matt’s description of the route and particularly the application of the approach control system with a busy timetable makes me think this could be an interesting and challenging route to drive. Quite looking forward to it now.

 

Agreed. It’s genuinely great to hear that the approach control is re-created, but the reason I focus so much on having some signal check is not an irrational hatred of the colour green, but a wish to have an element of unpredictability and variation in a journey (as there is in real life). Approach control doesn’t do that, because it’s still the same every time you reach that signal. To get the variation you need some conflicts with other train movements, and if only 323s working the cross city route are represented, it’s difficult to think how that will happen.

I suppose it’s possible there could be some conflicts between Lichfield - Bromsgrove and Redditch - Lichfield trains over the junction at Barnt Green. Apart from that, if everything runs to time (as it does on all TSW3 routes so far) then it sounds as if every run will be the same.

Hopefully I’ll be proved wrong, though. There are lots of good things about Cross City as a choice of route, and the screenshots we’ve seen so far look great. With some other services layered in (even if only AI) to get in the way a bit and give that variation, it could be one of the best routes yet.

 

Remains to be seen if the timetable includes Walsall services between Birmingham and Aston and vv.

 

I can only think one UK route that has adverse signals and that’s BML. All that route needs is the 700 and to fix the current bug . I have been playing BCC is TSC and there you get the 350 as AI to fill new street station. In quick drive you also get some 66 freight services as AI but other than that I don’t see too much happening

 

Just playing devils advocate, what if ECML is 12months into a dev cycle and these routes are paying for it. Stranger things have happened. I hope somewhere commercial viability helps it over the line.

Are routes now made differently to accept bolt on extensions or is that giving the game away?

 

Considering how much detail would need to go into either of those routes, this is an interesting theory. As long as that ECML route has a Gresley A4 or Deltic running on it, rather than an Azuma. They can do it anyway they want to

 

Does this route use a pre COVID timetable or 2022 Timetable for services?

 

I really think this would be something worthwhile investigating and even prioritising, not only from a gameplay point of view but actually as a sales incentive.

At the moment I (and I'm sure others) buy some DLC not because I particularly want to drive the route but because stock from it layers into my preferred routes. For instance, I've just picked up LGV in the sale because it adds extra trains and variety to SEHS, one of my favourite routes, whereas previously it didn't figure at all into my wishlist.

Bolt-on route extensions or network merging (however you want to call it) would effectively do the same thing but in the environmental domain as opposed to the locomotive domain (I hope this makes sense). It would also allow complex route networks (such as that around Brum) to be built up in stages and provide a varied and satisfying gameplay experience that builds on all of the hard work that the DTG team have put into it.

For instance, the next West Midlands Network (I'm calling it that now) release could be Rugby - Stafford via New Street with a Class 350, then Trent Valley introducing the 390 (and maybe a freight loco DLC). Rivet could even contribute by doing the Coventry to Nuneaton branch with a Class 230 derived from their 484.

The point I'm trying to make is simply that TSW's core strength is how DLC can become more than the sum of their parts through the layering and timetable systems, and bolt-on extensions are in my mind the natural endpoint of that thought.

 

Ah well, rumor has it that you guys spent about 2 years producing SPG/ CSX Heavy Haul and look how well that turned out - still the best route overall in TSW in this player's opinion.

Could that ever happen again? Probably not, I guess. The youngsters in the player base don't have the patience.

 

I'm also looking forward to it. I hope it has a busy timetable like London Commuter

 

Roadmap today, right?

 

yes there is

 

I thought it was tommorow. I guess we will see later on in the day

 

its today

 

Well I sincerely hope BCC is not a burner route and we do indeed start to see extensions in all djrections. And while slightly OT for this thread I fully support starting to extend existing routes SEHS style as a viable alternative to all new projects, whether that be Boulby and Bishop Auckland on TVL, York and Liverpool on NTP, Oxford and the branches on GWE. If these extensions sell with a new loco or trainset, so much the better.

 

I imagine for a moment that the Dartford-London Bridge/Charing Cross line and the Rochester-Swanley-London Victoria line are being added to the SEHS. East extension to Sherness, Ramsgate, Margate, Dover. We would get crazy gameplay. After all, sooner or later we can get it, I believe in it!

This can happen with any railway junction and direction. Fantastic journeys await us.

 

Post of the week Vern, massive potential in those routes with a base to start with already. Many of us hanker after seeing enhanced already existing content not new trains and new lines every release. I am always interested in transition periods and if I was a dev would be looking to sweat popular types of traction more without diverting from reality too much. 56s and 37s are still in operation today on many different types of train although everytime some modern stuff is done licensing is needed. These types of traction attract huge numbers of enthusiasts out still and that includes younger ones. RHTT and test train work literally dominates YouTube for 37s for example. Many of us are happy to have modern units but just want something a bit different to pass or change to in timetable mode. London Commuter is needs more freight for example and the Thameslinks running to finish it off.

 

I rather we didn't get extensions in the sense of you requiring ownership of the base route it's being extended from. In the case of Cross-City, if we got the Cross-Country line down to Bristol the value of such route would be reduced for those who already own the section to Bromsgrove.

Similarly, the reason I haven't yet purchased TSW3 is because the price of the SEHS extension doesn't justify the additional content in my view, I would be paying £30 for a route I already own part of (and neither the US or DE routes interest me).

Luckily because Cross-City will be featured in a starter pack, I can buy Cross-City and essentially get SEHS extended for free