Upcoming Release Master The Electrics!

Discussion in 'Dovetail Live Article Discussion' started by DTG Alex, Nov 29, 2022.

  1. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,910
    Likes Received:
    23,927
    It used to be the difference between getting cloth/fabric seats in First or the plastic/leatherette in Second class.

    I never forget my first trips to continental Europe in the early 1980's how spartan the trains were compared to the (relative) comfort of UK second class with its fully upholstered seats. The exception were the Scandinavian countries (you always hoped for a DSB UIC coach on the through trains from Hoek Van Holland to Kobenhaven) and, believe it or not, Austria. And the Swiss internal stock was like sitting on green floor vinyl/lino in their second class. Not good for the posterior!
     
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,718
    Likes Received:
    6,162
    Wow, what did I miss in a few days. Br 110 and n-Wagen in TSW? Karslruher Kopf? Am I dreaming? I’ll be watching with great interest. Here’s hoping the 110 lives up to my expectations based on Zusi and a simulator using a real cab I got to play with in Koblenz-Lützel at their summer festival 2022.
     
    • Like Like x 5
  3. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Yeah, this is awesome \o/
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,718
    Likes Received:
    6,162
    Well, I caught up in the thread and skipped through the preview - only felt right that I do so as quickly as possible given that I was always protesting for getting Einheitseloks in TSW. I like the (somewhat unrealistic) substitution as I’ll want to run the 110 as much as possible but I didn’t hear the distinct sound of the taps changing all too clearly. I’m hoping that’s just on account of Matt’s audio settings and talking over it. I have faith in TSG. In any case, I’ll look for myself once I’m back in Germany.
     
  5. florians#7620

    florians#7620 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2022
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    923
    After watching the stream, I am even more excited for this route than before. Even if I will not get all the layers on my PS4, this is a 100% day one purchase. So many positives in my opinion. The 110, Karlsruher Kopf Cab Car and the route itself looks stunning. Is it the 6th yet??
     
    • Like Like x 5
  6. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    If you are talking about the click clacks, they are audible more from the outside. He did an external view and you could hear it.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    1,917
    BTW what's this cab car look like?It doesn't sound like a dopplestock type.
     
  8. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    2,124
    It looks really impressive. It also looks to be a blast to drive! It is certainly unique; you should check out the timestamped video. I have a feeling the cab car, n wagens, and 110 are going to be my favorite TSW train set - though there is stiff competition from the 101!
     
    • Like Like x 6
  9. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    It's in the preview video. Brake stand is similar to that of the locomotive. It's got like a lapped throttle. Hold it in run up and you get more power but if you apply too much, your engine shuts off. Explained better in the video.
     
  10. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    I think what you miss is not in this loco, unfortunately. It uses the W29t tap changer what is barely audible in the cab and even quiet outsides. What you want is the N28h tap changer. But only the older types of the E10/110 using this.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  11. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,718
    Likes Received:
    6,162
    Ah, just looked it up. Shame, I thought the N28h was used universally in all of the Einheitseloks (apart from the Br 141, obviously). Well, one can't have everything all at once. Thanks for enlightening me :)
     
  12. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,718
    Likes Received:
    6,162
    If the 110 is anything close to the level of quality the 101 has, it'll instantly become my new favourite. That's not even mentioning the Karlsruher Kopf cab car - literally the only cab car I absolutely love; I hate any other form of cab car. I have waited for any Einheitselok in TSW for such a long time now. No joke, the possibility of driving them was the main motivation for my getting Zusi almost a year ago.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  13. Evolinox#6389

    Evolinox#6389 Member

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2022
    Messages:
    29
    Likes Received:
    46
    For the BR 110.3 to be better then the BR 101, they need to fix the PZB Issue as soon as possible... Really disappointed that DTG still didnt fix this Issue that started with the BR 401 :(
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. drnicktgm#1259

    drnicktgm#1259 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 17, 2020
    Messages:
    945
    Likes Received:
    1,272
    Why did you choose to use the Karsruhe Steuerwagen with the Cargo door? I really like the design of it without it like in the image down below.
    upload_2022-12-2_23-51-5.png
     
    • Like Like x 2
  15. cloudyskies21

    cloudyskies21 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 9, 2021
    Messages:
    1,248
    Likes Received:
    3,407
    Indeed, obviously it's more difficult regarding the UK compared to Germany due to the plethora of TOCs and rolling stock - but, my point was why did they choose a new route in a brand-new area with the busiest station outside London? Could you imagine what London Commuter would have been like if that was the first route, instead of say East Coastway all those years ago...
    While I kind of agree with you, community feedback I feel is still better than nothing at all. I think the community - especially if they're local to a real-life route - can give valuable feedback, as was the case following the Cross City preview stream etc regarding the likes of New Street.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  16. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    1,917
    I was just wondering did matt or anyone else say if this new cab car can only be used with the 110 loco?
     
  17. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,718
    Likes Received:
    6,162
    Yes, I imagine so. The Karlsruher Kopf uses the KWS system for remote control whereas the newer DoStos use the ZWS system. The only other class in the game that had KWS models is the Br 143, but if they run with DoSto cab cars, then they have ZWS instead. In any case, ZWS 143s are the norm and KWS 143s the exception for the areas where they had to run with (at that point) outdated cab cars.
     
  18. Swisstrains

    Swisstrains Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 2, 2019
    Messages:
    836
    Likes Received:
    1,180
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  19. fabienlimp95

    fabienlimp95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2019
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    432

    Why is that so ? Surely I'm absolutely not an expert on this topic but why is this important in the first place which system is used in TSW ? For me as a player it isnt really important which loco and wagon uses which system, for me it would be important to have the possibility to use the N-Wagons with every german loco i want in Scenario Editor. If you keep it 'realistic' in Timetable thats absolutely fine. But why shouldn't it be possible to take a 143 with N-Wagons if i want to do so ? And they even did run like this so this wouldn't even be unrealistic to do so.

    Furthermore, looking at the german locos that will or will not come for TSW, it would be a massive let down if, for example, the 232* would come without the ability to use them with IC coaches or the N-Wagen in Scenario Editor. Even if this combination would be pretty much unrealistic, not to have the option of doing things like this would result in less possibilities and some lack of gameplay opportunity. So this really should be considered in the first place. I certainly wouldnt care if there is no door button. The Rivet 204 don't has them but i can still operate dostos run and open/close doors via the tab menu or with the shortcuts.

    *Edit 323 to 232.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  20. jack travers

    jack travers Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 24, 2022
    Messages:
    791
    Likes Received:
    562
    I know I’m definitely going to be sticking a br182 onto the n-wagen
     
    • Like Like x 1
  21. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 2, 2020
    Messages:
    11,910
    Likes Received:
    23,927
    Fully agree - this should be about having fun and not worrying about what type of multiple working hook up connects with which coaches!
     
    • Like Like x 3
  22. redrev1917

    redrev1917 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2021
    Messages:
    3,502
    Likes Received:
    7,692
    DTG are stuck between a rock and a hard place. Parts of the community would rip them a new one if n Wagens could be hauled by 143. And conversely others complain that they cant.

    They cant please everyone all of the time.
     
    • Like Like x 10
  23. fabienlimp95

    fabienlimp95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2019
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    432
    Yes and i pretty much agree on those who want the most 'authenthic' experience possible. I certainly would wonder if a 204 would pull an IC Train when iam driving in timetable mode... But thats not the point of my post.

    Im simply talking about what I can do on my Train Sim World and if im wanting to pull IC coaches with the 232 (sorry ive messed it up in my OP) then why shouldn't i be able to do so ? Why should anybody at DTG care if im pulling IC Coaches with whatever i want. (Just to have an example)

    You wouldn't upset those who seek absolute realism because they wouldn't be affected, but give a lot more gameplay to those who want to do 'crazy or stupid stuff'.

    In the end this is handled way to strict and should be considered for upcoming releases to give us as much possibilities (in Scenario Editor) as we would like to have.

    Adding that it is quite strange to read that they had to implement the possibility to operate the Dostos Doors with the 110 because it appeared with them (sounds like this wasn't supposed to be so but substitution developed its own mind) lol.
     
  24. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    The reason is simply the same as in the real world. You can't couple them jumper-cable wise. It's made in TSW as in the real world. And that system can't be ignored for a certain game mode, yet. A 110 and n-Wagen need a KWS connection AND a UIC 568 connection to work together. When you hook up IC coaches behind the 110 it will not couple the KWS and not even the ECH cables, only the UIC cable is compatible and will technically connect. But then the IC coaches uses different pins for the control commands for doors than the n-Wagen. You simply can't make that compatible without building all possible system into all trains (what is even impossible to do). 'We' want it realistic, so we have to deal with it the realistic way.
     
    • Like Like x 16
  25. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I have the same feelings. The older locos are so good for no-hud driving, with all the organic feel, big analog speedometers, etc. Ultra excitement \o/
    TSW.07.png
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 3, 2022
    • Like Like x 4
  26. fabienlimp95

    fabienlimp95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2019
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    432

    So i guess then its due to the cables not be able to 'physically' connect to each other ? Like i said im not an expert but would love to 'mimic' some Trains that would drive IRL, even if that means some cables would not be connected properly (which for the Gameplay wouldn't be a problem if the commands would still work if implemented)

    Tbh thats dissapointing. I really do not get what it would take of those who dont wanna do consists like this, which they never would see in Game if they dont 'create' them.

    There are some really great variations on Creators Club, one is pulling some HST Wagons with a BR Class 66 (and operational Doors) is that realistic? I guess it's not buts its great fun to play.

    I can understand that those decisions aren't made by you alone, but DTG in general. And i really dont wanne start a pointless argument here but 'we' or at least some of us customers would love to have options like this.
     
  27. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    First, you can couple all things together that uses the same type of coupler. So you can couple any German wagon to any German loco if they use hook couplers. You can't couple a trainset like the 425 to a loco like a 185 or something. That's technically impossible. It would need a separate piece of coupler adapter that is not implemented at all yet in any train in TSW. So, you then maybe have coupled what ou want to couple. As of German trains, mostly they will be drivable if they use normal air brakes. But when it comes to door systems, they can be incompatible, and you can't use the doors then. You still can drive the train, but you can't load/unload passengers (there is the possibility to open each door manually to let them board to maybe complete a objective in a scenario). Specially for the 110 i added some stuff that will make it possible to use Dosto and IC coaches with the loco and having operable doors. But that will not count for all possible combinations.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  28. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,718
    Likes Received:
    6,162
    I think what Maik is trying to explain is that it's all down to Simugraph. Simugraph differs from all other train sim engines in that it tries to accurately model what's happening behind the scenes (all of the electrical systems, air systems, the way a prime mover is connected to the other systems in a loco, etc.) instead of using a black box model, which essentially just 'cheats' and uses made-up graphs to mimic the performance of a loco. In other words, whereas most sims have a box moving down the track with a graph telling it how hard it can pull, TSW has a 16-cylinder 4-stroke diesel engine with a generator and six traction motors moving down the track with the performance being dictated by the stats and interconnections between them.

    What this results in is that systems incompatible in the real world will likely also be incompatible in TSW as the underlying components are simulated. Thus, incompatible door systems won't interact with one another.

    Therefore, it's not a decision to leave out unprototypical stuff but rather would require additional work to add unprototypical stuff.

    That's my understanding, at least, of how TSW works and what Maik Goltz is trying to explain. Corrections are very welcome.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  29. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,323
    Likes Received:
    3,079
    perhaps a consist level "off the rails" mode would cover these unrealistic formations. We will only know when we get the formation designer ;)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  30. fabienlimp95

    fabienlimp95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2019
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    432
    Thanks for all the explanation, the answers are very well appreciated !
     
  31. fabienlimp95

    fabienlimp95 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 6, 2019
    Messages:
    259
    Likes Received:
    432
    Yeah i get that with the simugraph simulation, its something that we only can benefit from in TSW and its physics.

    Still, maybe there is a way for some occasions when its 'logical' to cheat a bit. Im not talking 'pulling ICE 1 coaches with the 8F Steamer' but maybe there are some more reasonable combinations. Lets see what time brings.
     
  32. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    Tbh, this particular problem has nothing to do with SimuGraph. I will not get into details here. But connections and logic for that is 'just' blueprint work. SimuGraph is mainly physics and traction and braking system related logic.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
    • Like Like x 1
  33. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2021
    Messages:
    810
    Likes Received:
    1,262
    Since we are discussing how cab car and loco are communicating (zws in this case), I have a different question. In the steam I noticed that the line voltage was constantly displayed in the cab car (15kV). The way it was explained to me was that with the way zws handled this particular information, the voltage was only displayed as long as you are in running notch zero. As soon as the loco starts to go out of notch 0 and the motors start to generate power, the display would drop to 0 line voltage, while all the other instruments would come to live. Apparently the line voltage was the only way the driver in the cab car was actually able to tell that the “Schaltwerk” (sorry, I do not know the appropriate english translation for it) has actually reached 0 again.

    Maybe this was changed throughout the life of the KaKo. If anybody could shed some light on this?!
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  34. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    It's not ZWS but KWS36. And yes, normally it does that. Unfortunately, it's not implemented yet. If i find time, i will add that. I already added some other missing features like indicators for MCB and blowers. But all these changes will be post release somewhen. And i can't spend infinite time into that train. Already spent too much again.

    EDIT: Just implemented that feature now. Will come within a post release update.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
    • Like Like x 14
  35. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 10, 2021
    Messages:
    810
    Likes Received:
    1,262
    Sorry, yes, keep mixing kws and zws up…
    Agreed… after all, we are all hoping for much more nice projects from you in the not so far future:D
     
    • Like Like x 3
  36. SHINO BAZ

    SHINO BAZ Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,584
    Likes Received:
    1,917
    Off the rails mode will allow any 3rd rail or overhead wire loco to work on routes without these features but trying to use a cab car with anything other then the one loco it's tied with, can't be done for OTR mode isn't programable for the same option, amazing.

    As for other locos i understand you would need a loco with the same type of coupler as well.
     
    Last edited: Dec 3, 2022
    • Like Like x 1
  37. driverwoods#1787

    driverwoods#1787 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 21, 2021
    Messages:
    9,084
    Likes Received:
    5,602
    Well said and I'm wondering was the locomotive featured in the new route run the Bad Bentheim Osnabrück Bremen Hamburg Hauptbahnhof which is actually electrified 15kv 16.7hz but not Vogelfluglinie Bahnstrecke Hamburg Lübeck Eisenbahnfahre Puttgarden Rødby Diesel Lokomotive DB Baureihe 218 based from Bahnbetriebswerk Lübeck. If they want to improve the route why not make it 1980s the era which you are familiar with.
     
  38. florians#7620

    florians#7620 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 7, 2022
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    923
    Funny thing just happened while I was getting familiar with the BR155 again on HHL. I earned the trophy “BRO: Hot off the Press” :D I‘m on PS4.
     
    • Like Like x 6
  39. pascal.weick

    pascal.weick Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    67
    One thing i'm wondering about is, how can we change the pantograph on the BR110. Because normally you have to go to the engine room. Since we can cannot access it in the game i'm wondering how we can change the pantograph then?
     
  40. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    I don't think you can change the pantograph. You would use the raise panto and close mcb button to power the train.
     
  41. Cael

    Cael Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 26, 2018
    Messages:
    667
    Likes Received:
    1,366
    My guess is it's going to be automatic.
     
  42. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    There is a replacement-switch in the cab 1 for selecting the pantograph. And you need to do that manually when changing ends or to the cab car. There are a few things you need to do when you want to change from loco to cab car. Ni idea if those things are covered by the tutorials yet.
     
    • Like Like x 6
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  43. krenz.christoph

    krenz.christoph Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2021
    Messages:
    165
    Likes Received:
    581
    Can't it be tuesday already :/
     
    • Like Like x 2
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  44. rennekton#1349

    rennekton#1349 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 5, 2022
    Messages:
    6,223
    Likes Received:
    4,020
    Time flies. It'll be Tuesday before you know it lol
     
  45. bence950906

    bence950906 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    363
    And what are the things you have to do before you change your cab ?
     
  46. pascal.weick

    pascal.weick Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    99
    Likes Received:
    67
    Thats perfect for me. Just as i expected it from you, Maik. Keep up the great work. Big fan of your Trains
     
  47. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    When you sit in cab 1:
    - be sure Throttle wheel is in 0 and tap changer is in 0
    - switch off blowers
    - open doors if needed
    - Apply train brake to full service, move it back to off quickly, cut it off with the brake key
    - Be sure the loco brake is in release position (basically always when you move or leave the loco) and you have some pressure in the cylinders (never ever leave the loco with no pressure in the cylinders!).
    - open MCB
    - Panto down
    - select new panto position on the back wall
    - Panto up
    - Reverser to off, reverser handle out
    - move to cab 2
    - reverser handle in, reverser to m
    - close MCB
    - unlock train brake, set it to a braking position
    ... good to go now (maybe SIFA/PZB/LZB needs to be switched on in the Game, IRL they are on)

    The procedure is basically the same when changing from cab 2 to cab 1, but you need to select the panto in cab 1 then. And when going to the cab car, it's also the same. Be sure you select the correct pantograph, and you have the MCB closed before you move to the cab car. Yes, you can raise the panto and close the MCB from the cab car too, but the instructions say do it in the loco.

    If you forget to do the brake lever stuff, you will have some extra miles to go. You can only have one cut-in drivers brake valve and you need to be sure all loco brakes are in release, or you might have dragging loco brakes.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 11
    • Like Like x 3
  48. OnlyMe1909

    OnlyMe1909 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 26, 2019
    Messages:
    704
    Likes Received:
    924
    Hmmm, hope this procedure is included in the tutorials...
     
    • Like Like x 1
  49. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 14, 2019
    Messages:
    2,454
    Likes Received:
    7,474
    Is it incorrect to first raise the 2nd pantograph, then lower the first one? I know it's a no-no when moving, but I've seen it quite frequently when locos are stationary or starting with a heavy train behind them.
     
  50. bence950906

    bence950906 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 29, 2020
    Messages:
    146
    Likes Received:
    363
    thanks for the reply
     

Share This Page